Iraq targeted since late 90's

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OrionTheWolf -> Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/17/2007 10:05:22 PM)
Here is a link to a letter to then President Clinton dated January 26, 1998 http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm "In the near term, this means a willingness to undertake military action as diplomacy is clearly failing. In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy. " Those that this letter were from: Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett Jeffrey Bergner John Bolton Paula Dobriansky Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad William Kristol Richard Perle Peter W. Rodman Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber Paul Wolfowitz R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick This may be old news to some, but I am just now doing alot of digging when I have time. Orion

SimplyMichael -> RE: Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/17/2007 10:29:22 PM)
quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century [edit] "New Pearl Harbor" Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" (51).[22] I asked Seymour Hersh tonight if he thought that this administration had purposely pushed Iraq into choas in order to draw Iran into the conflict and allow the US to attack Iran. His answer wasn't clear yes or no and I didn't get a chance to ask a follow up. My belief, given the Bush families long ties to, and involvement in, the ME, that they got to this point on purpose.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/17/2007 10:38:58 PM)
I agree. People want to easily say that the Non-Cons that are behind this are stupid, but if you look at that list of people, there are some sharp minds there. This is not some bungled job, there is intent. Orion

SimplyMichael -> RE: Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/17/2007 10:47:30 PM)
I don't know what you know about accepted COIN strategy but we have violated every bit of it from day one. In fact, we have done the exact opposite of established practice at almost every step of the way. The military knows what to do to win their end of it (speaking in terms of COIN, not the big picture of Iraq as a whole) but they haven't been allowed to. I believe that is because Bushco isn't looking for the same victory the rest of us are, not quite sure what it is but it isn't anything that is going to benefit the US as a country, you can bet on that.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/17/2007 10:54:02 PM)
I may be a bleeding heart liberal but my plan for Afghanistan would have been to arrange for accidents for all the first born sons of the warlords. I would then have taken the second born sons and whispered in their ears to look at their younger brother and imagine him running things instead. Let them know what we expect of them, how much opium they could grow, how much they could steal of US aid, etc. I would also inform them of how many girls would be allowed to go to school, how much money would have to trickle down to their people etc. I would also have brought huge numbers of their families to the US to study as well. I would have taken huge numbers of people from various government entities and brough them here to work and learn alongside their equals in our government and of course to corrupt them with walmart, costco, and god knows what else. Anyone who gets too far out of line falls out of the airplane on the way back and the warlords know that a large number of their family members are attending schools at every large city in the US. Of course they wouldn't be hostages or insurance against terror attacks as America would never do such a thing, or would we?

popeye1250 -> RE: Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/17/2007 11:03:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I agree. People want to easily say that the Non-Cons that are behind this are stupid, but if you look at that list of people, there are some sharp minds there. This is not some bungled job, there is intent. Someone get a rope! Let's take them out and hang them! I have to laugh at that term, "American Foreign Policy." Since when do American Citizens get a say in any foreign policy issues? Orion

EPGAH -> RE: Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/17/2007 11:04:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I may be a bleeding heart liberal but my plan for Afghanistan would have been to arrange for accidents for all the first born sons of the warlords. I would then have taken the second born sons and whispered in their ears to look at their younger brother and imagine him running things instead. Let them know what we expect of them, how much opium they could grow, how much they could steal of US aid, etc. I would also inform them of how many girls would be allowed to go to school, how much money would have to trickle down to their people etc. I would also have brought huge numbers of their families to the US to study as well. I would have taken huge numbers of people from various government entities and brough them here to work and learn alongside their equals in our government and of course to corrupt them with walmart, costco, and god knows what else. Anyone who gets too far out of line falls out of the airplane on the way back and the warlords know that a large number of their family members are attending schools at every large city in the US. Of course they wouldn't be hostages or insurance against terror attacks as America would never do such a thing, or would we? LOL, that's a great--and EFFECTIVE plan--and that's EXACTLY why it didn't happen that way: Taking enemies hostage is considered "beneath us" somehow...Killing "civilians" who "happen" to be packing assault-rifles is similarly frowned upon...So is torture, but somehow, our wee grunts thought up such elaborate torture schemes, AND acquired all the equipment to do so--in the military's supply-chain whose inefficiency is legendary? Something wrong there![&:] Heck, when we deported illegals by plane, we landed before pushing them out...so they hopped back in--to America! Napalm wasn't used because it was a CRUEL weapon, it was used because it was an EFFECTIVE weapon...and so on...We limit our OWN capabilities, far more than they could ever do!

SimplyMichael -> RE: Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/17/2007 11:14:12 PM)
Oh, aren't you cute! Here is today's lesson for you, I want you to google the following words and write a paragraph about each one. Rendition, enemy combatant, Berlin Airlift & C5a, and civilization.

meatcleaver -> RE: Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/18/2007 12:10:47 AM)
I think just about averyone in Europe was aware of this apart from Blair and his government. It always seemed a measurement of the neo-cons stupidity to publish this sort of stuff even if they do think it. This document has created more mistrust, scepticism and outright anti-Americanism in Europe, you would think the neo-cons were on a campaign to alienate every possible allie America has. Certainly many Europeans who have read it (and there appears to be a lot) think that this document is Bush's manifesto. The whole document is abhorent.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Iraq targeted since late 90's (10/18/2007 5:05:42 AM)
What is really sad is how few American's have read it. I was at a workshop last night with Seymour Hersh and one of the things he mentioned was how much more aggressive reporting is in Europe. Lots of stories about US politics break first in Europe and only get picked up here much later.

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