RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese?

RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (Full Version)

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HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/20/2007 11:46:18 AM)
NAFTA was the first bill put on Clinton's desk after he took office. He gets blamed for it because he signed it but it was actually Bush I that pushed it through Congress. Clinton had a majority Republican Congress and the bill had passed with enough votes to override his veto if he had chosen to do so. He also had a desire to get a public health program through Congress and that would not have had much chance of passage if his first step in office had been a showdown with Congress over NAFTA. It was pretty much a done deal before he took office and while I personally feel it was not good for the US I can see why he would choose to sign it rather than begin his administration with a no-win fight with Congress.

cyberdude611 -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/20/2007 1:11:37 PM)
Its hillarious liberals are trying to push NAFTA as a GOP bill... NAFTA was supported by both Republicans and Democrats in congress. Both parties were split on the agreement. John Kerry and Ted Kennedy both voted for it. In fact 27 Democrats voted with 34 Republicans in a Democrat-controlled Senate to vote for it. And Clinton signed it. You dont trust me...take a look at the roll call... http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00395 So dont even try to throw that as a GOP bill. That's a bipartisan bill that the Democrats could have stopped so, so, so easily if they wanted to. They didn't.

SimplyMichael -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/20/2007 1:25:17 PM)
When was the last time a Chinese citizen flew a plane into a US building? Clinton drew China out into the open and because of the economic growth of China has greatly weakened the hold of the communists/authoritarians on China. While they are still a threat, they are not the threat they would otherwise have been. I despised Clinton for it at the time but looking back it was a farsighted move. The trick would have been to play carrot and stick, allow China to move forward and cheat a bit but as they expanded force them to cheat less and less. Instead, Bush has allowed them to cheat more and more. Another example of how Bush has helped our enemies and undermined America.

awmslave -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/20/2007 5:01:14 PM)
There has been three corporatist presidents on the row: Bush senior, W. Clinton and Bush junior. There still is some America left that can be put up for sale. It takes time for empire to fall.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/20/2007 5:41:30 PM)
Cyber, I wasn't trying to make NAFTA a conservative vs liberal issue. It's just that I get tired of hearing Clinton blamed for it when in fact he probably was the least supportive of it of all those involved in it's passage. I have heard but have not had substantiated in any way that the bill was originally written by the two founders of Amway (both major conservative supporters) who then passed it on to Bush I and urged him to push it through Congress. I can give this rumor some credit as I personally attended an Amway rally in 1981 where the same two founders spoke quite a bit about the need to open Central and South America to free trade. This was a decade before NAFTA was passed.

luckydog1 -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/20/2007 7:23:01 PM)
Have rope you have a very basic factual flaw in your post. Clinton had a Democratic House and Senate for his first 1/2 term, that was sending him legislation when he first got in. And Nafta was a major issue in the campaign. Clinton and Gore were very forcefuly for it

CuriousLord -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/20/2007 7:50:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord What's so wrong with Cool-Aide, anyhow? I mean I get it's supposed to be this condescending bit towards those that support the current administration, but, seriously.. "cool-aid drinker"? Is Cool-Aide somehow determental to one's intelligence? Do you think smart people don't drink Cool-Aide? Was there some kind of scientific conference discussing Cool-Aide that I'm unaware of? "Cool-aid drinker", refers to the drug like spell,that neo-cons,.. and other gullible(however well meaning) people seem to have.Like the cool-aid`s been "spiked" w/ some kind of brain-washing drug. Like in the "Invasion of The Body Snatchers" movie,where the victims have a thousand mile stare,and talk like drudged zombies,Cool-aid drinkers have the same quality. Like you have to be high to have it make sense. It`s a word used for those that defend in indefensible,and turn logic on it`s head,in favor of party loyalty.It`s also the straight faced way that some do it,,lol,like no one else sees that the "Emperor has no clothing". A cool-aid drinker thinks that Saddam Hussein/Iraq had a roll in 9/11,that Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet,that there were real WMD in Iraq,that Osama bin-laden doesn`t matter,that Valerie Plame was not an active CIA agent,when the WH blew her cover,as a WMD analysts/data gatherer.That things in Iraq, are going well,that bush is a competent and reliable leader. You need the "cool-aid",just to cope.Understand? This term has been use for bushies and his minions,for years.Surprised you haven`t heard it before,but than again,you`re a 20 yo kid.You were 13 when bush 1st took office. btw,it doesn`t refer to the actual beverage. A much better explaination than I expected.

dcnovice -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/20/2007 8:23:50 PM)
I always thought "drinking the Kool-Aid" was a reference to Jim Jones's cult followers' downing cyanide-laced grape drink at the People's Temple in Guyana, but Wikipedia says that the expression comes from the sixties, when folks drank Kool-Aid laced with LSD. When I hear (or say) that someone has drunk the Kool-Aid, I take it to mean that s/he is mouthing a party line rather than showing signs of independent thought.

Griswold -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/20/2007 8:35:57 PM)
That's what I wanna fucking know....WTF up with the Chinese and the Clintons? (I want some fucking answers). I want some talking going on here.

meatcleaver -> RE: What's up with the Clintons and the Chinese? (10/21/2007 4:13:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind I can give this rumor some credit as I personally attended an Amway rally in 1981 where the same two founders spoke quite a bit about the need to open Central and South America to free trade. This was a decade before NAFTA was passed. Free trade is the real issue, in order for NAFTA to work it requires free trade to really mean that but the instincts of the US is its traditional protectionist stance (maybe that's true of Mexico and Canada too). If you look at the EU, which is a similar idea with political add-ons, the countries that have opened up the mostare the ones that have done best. Germany once it took on the reality that it needs to engage in free trade rather than over protect its industry got back to being the power house of Europe. OK that's an over simplification but if you have a free trade zone, it will only work if you engage in free trade.

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