RE: Loud Motorcycles

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seeksfemslave -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 11:22:11 AM)
I agree with the criticism of the ability to "lay a bike down" in a real world emergency. The only time I fell off (touching wood) I was laying on the road on my arse with a sharp pain in my knee before I had a chance to react at all. It was on ice. Once had a rear wheel puncture at about 50 mph and lost complete control of the bike and only by good fortune did I manage "stay on". Dread to think what might have happened if it had been a front wheel "blow out"

RapierFugue -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 12:35:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesertRat Loud pipes are supposed to indicate manliness, I guess. Ditto for not giving a fuck about other people. When you hear the noise you're supposed to think the engine is very powerful and only a very special person would dare to ride such a machine. Ironically, on most bikes, louder, less restrictive exhaust systems actually "overscavenge" at the engine speeds most commonly used. So the engine actually makes less torque and, therefore, less power except when it's running close to redline. Incorrect. A bike engine that’s jetted and set-up correctly will generally show an increase across the range. As an example, dyno charts for my old 9R showed a healthy 5 bhp increase from 2,000 rpm up, peaking at 11 bhp at the redline. What doesn’t work is just shoving a race exhaust on a bike without changing the fuelling; jetting on carbs, injection and ignition map in FI bikes. quote: ORIGINAL: DesertRat My '90 FZR1000 was very quiet at idle and around town, had good low-end torque, and also got good mileage at sane speeds, all because of a valve in the collector that responded to engine speed and intake vacuum. But when I racked the throttle open on the open road, the valve would open fully and the machine would fly. That bike had a 'no bullshit' top speed of about 170, could do the 1/4 mile in the very low 10s, and didn't scare the shit out of lil old ladies...or piss off the neighbors. If stock, your bike had a “no bullshit” top speed of around 155-158 mph, unless you take speedo readings as accurate – if it’s not measured with a laser gun or flick-trap, it’s not accurate. After tuning, my 9R made a true 145 bhp at the rear wheel, and was good for “197” mph … thing was, measured against a laser gun, it was making only 177 genuine mph. Speedos lie like cheap watches … in fact, in the US and Europe, they HAVE to lie, by law.

RapierFugue -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 12:39:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or He decided to drop the bike. I'm very sorry for the loss of your cousin, but I have to call bullshit on this too. When riders say something like "yeah, I had to lay it down," it's a crock. What they meant to say was "I panicked, grabbed a fistful of front brake, lost the front end and crashed" but that's not nearly as cool and calls their riding skills into question. Decades ago, when the only brakes most motorcycles had were shitty drum brakes, there may have been some truth to the logic that you can stop quicker sliding on your chrome than staying upright, but today that's just not the case. Except for very specific instances, you can stop a bike much faster on it's wheels than when it's on it's side. ~stef … is the correct answer. BTW you’re wrong about “calling bullshit” on the loud pipes save lives thing; if you rode in a city, as I do, in London, you’d see how loud pipes save an average of 2-3 peds per day. It’s got much worse since mobile phones got so popular … people blithely wander across the road, chatting away, regardless. It might be easier in US cities … you guys don’t allow peds to throw themselves off the pavement at will, right? Something called “jay walking”?

Raechard -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 12:52:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue It’s got much worse since mobile phones got so popular … people blithely wander across the road, chatting away, regardless. It might be easier in US cities … you guys don’t allow peds to throw themselves off the pavement at will, right? Something called “jay walking”? Don’t only blame pedestrians because I’ve seen bikers, usually couriers, blatantly ride through scores of people using zebra crossings. They also weave in and out of traffic looking for a way to the front of the queue. Don’t even get me started on idiot cyclists that don’t recognise red lights. Loud pipes won’t save you if you are a pedestrian because they are so loud people assume they are far away anyway. It won’t do bugger all to save the biker that slips on icy roads either. It’s so funny bikers preaching to the rest of us about the highway code when the majority of them don’t even follow the speed limit and will happily zip past you on a blind bend. (edit: spelling, probably still wrong)

Zensee -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 12:55:16 PM)
To the noise hounds who think their power trip is just music to the world's ears - prolonged and occasional exposure to disruptive noise has adverse, long-term physical, mental and emotional health effects on many people. The following quote comes from this report - http://www.toronto.ca/health/hphe/pdf/noiserpt_attachmentmarch23.pdf quote: Noise is an important health issue that affects more than hearing. The scientific research demonstrates that health effects occur at noise levels below those that impair hearing. Some of these health effects include increased risk for cardiovascular disease, negative effects on sleep, communication, performance and behaviour, reading and memory acquisition, and mental health. Noise is not just a petty annoyance. It's not just about quiet enjoyment of one's home (although it should be). In my case, my main gig is passenger transport. When facing a long day of people moving, there's nothing like a good night's sleep to make sure I am aware and alert. Awareness, as some have kindly pointed out, is what saves lives on the road, not loud pipes. So calculate the elevated risk to human life a motorcyclist, or street racer or an idiot with a thumpa-thumpa stereo causes when they waken me at three A.M..Now there is this guy in a flimsy aluminum can (ever see a bus after a rollover?) full of people, negotiating traffic, under less than ideal safety conditions - all supposedly to safeguard the life of a single biker. That's just my situation offered as an example. I am sure that for every dead biker story there are a few score horror stories about disrupted lives due to noise intrusion. Even if loud pipes save lives (which they don't - and if you fear deer, get some of those ultrasonic whistles for your rig) the noise pollution they create poses an increased risk for ill health, injury and death to a whole lot more people than they "protect". It's called a risk/benefit assessment and the risk a quiet bike poses to a biker is far, far less than the benefit a quiet city offers the thousands of people living in it. I hope the "Oooo, the power between my legs" crowd can appreciate that their public masturbatory practice does not cause universal sexual arousal. Z.

Zensee -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:02:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or He decided to drop the bike. I'm very sorry for the loss of your cousin, but I have to call bullshit on this too. When riders say something like "yeah, I had to lay it down," it's a crock. What they meant to say was "I panicked, grabbed a fistful of front brake, lost the front end and crashed" but that's not nearly as cool and calls their riding skills into question. Decades ago, when the only brakes most motorcycles had were shitty drum brakes, there may have been some truth to the logic that you can stop quicker sliding on your chrome than staying upright, but today that's just not the case. Except for very specific instances, you can stop a bike much faster on it's wheels than when it's on it's side. ~stef … is the correct answer. BTW you’re wrong about “calling bullshit” on the loud pipes save lives thing; if you rode in a city, as I do, in London, you’d see how loud pipes save an average of 2-3 peds per day. It’s got much worse since mobile phones got so popular … people blithely wander across the road, chatting away, regardless. It might be easier in US cities … you guys don’t allow peds to throw themselves off the pavement at will, right? Something called “jay walking”? If you are having two or three close encounters with pedestrians every day it's your driving skills that are at fault. The proper (and legal) presumption of a licensed driver is that anyone not in a vehicle has NO road awareness at all and the drivers should adjust their driving accordingly. Pedestrians are responsible for their own behaviour but that does not excuse drivers from taking all and any precautions necessary to prevent collisions. Paying attention is a good start. Z.

Termyn8or -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:09:28 PM)
stef, I will see your bullshit call and raise you a fact. His neck was wrapped around the truck's driveshaft. I didn't say he made the right move. T

CuriousLord -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:15:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet "To be honest, I keep hoping to hear one of them crash into a pole so I can have some silence; do they not care that people are trying to sleep? " (quote from OP) Do you not care that they have families, friends, jobs, and lives? You hope a person DIES because it wakes you for a moment and you have to roll over? I PRAY you don't have an unmentionable that actually has the nerve to cry at night. No, no. It's not because they simply wake me. It's because they're waking everyone here- there's over a thousand students in this complex, not even thinking of the neighboring ones- for a joy ride. (I know it's a joy ride because they circled the complex a couple of times.) At best, they're incredibly negligent. At worst, they're trying to wake everyone up with their bike- which- frankly- seems most likely. (Why else would someone circle an appartment complex at 2 AM with a noisy bike?) So, yes- if someone's would willing do that for no reason other than their personal amusement, I would be glad to hear of their misfortune.

DesertRat -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:20:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue Incorrect. A bike engine that’s jetted and set-up correctly will generally show an increase across the range. As an example, dyno charts for my old 9R showed a healthy 5 bhp increase from 2,000 rpm up, peaking at 11 bhp at the redline. What doesn’t work is just shoving a race exhaust on a bike without changing the fuelling; jetting on carbs, injection and ignition map in FI bikes. I stand corrected. Thing is, here in the States, that's what most riders do...slap on an exhaust system without rejetting or remapping. quote: If stock, your bike had a “no bullshit” top speed of around 155-158 mph, unless you take speedo readings as accurate – if it’s not measured with a laser gun or flick-trap, it’s not accurate. Incorrect. The highest top speed, measured by radar, for a '90 FZR1000 (an EXUP to you Brits) that I ever read was dead-on 170 mph. The lowest was 164, with some 166s and 168s in there, as well. quote: Speedos lie like cheap watches … in fact, in the US and Europe, they HAVE to lie, by law. Yes, they read about 15% high, on average. I don't think that's mandated, though. Oddly, Harley speedos tend to be right on. As for me, I never went faster than an estimated 150 on my FZR and I only did that once. The '90 FZR produced about 113 horsepower at the rear wheel. That's a dyno measurement. Pretty amazing. The Honda CRX Si (car) I had at the time made, I think, 108 bhp.

CuriousLord -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:22:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind Loud pipes are a child yelling, "Look at me!" I have been riding motorcycles since 1972. I have owned 84 of them and currently have 3. I've owned just about every type and brand. I have been a Motorcycle Safety Foundation Riding Instructor. There is no evidence in any safety study I have ever seen that loud pipes increase safety. The argument that they save lives is totally unsupported and anecdotal. In fact I believe they decrease safety by creating additional rider fatigue. (Yes, noise increases fatigue.) Additionally when a rider with loud pipes comes up fast and passes a car the noise of the bike will not actually be heard by the car's driver until the bike is quite close. (This is due to the way noise propagates around moving vehicles.) Then it will be perceived as very loud and very close. A natural reaction for a startled car driver is to turn and look toward the noise. In most cases a driver turning his/her head and upper body quickly will also tend to turn the wheel slightly in the same direction. So there is a very good chance the car will wind up swerving toward the bike. (By the way, this is the same reason you should not honk your car horn if you are approaching and passing a kid on a bicycle riding on the edge of the road. The kid is likely to be startled and swerve toward the noise as he looks for it.) It's difficult to actually get statistical evidence on motorcycle safety since in general they are not separated from other types of vehicles in transportation safety studies. In the early 90's the University of North Carolina did a three year study that in fact did separate out motorcycle accidents. They found that there are 2 causes of accidents that account for 97% of all motorcycle accidents. They were about equal in numbers. The first was motorcycles operated by a rider who was under the influence of alcohol. In this type of accident it was generally a single vehicle accident, usually after dark, where the rider lost control of the motorcycle resulting in a wreck. The second type of accident was caused by a larger vehicle turning left across the path of the motorcycle. This could have been a left turn from an intersection or a left turn by opposite direction traffic and was normally in daylight in good weather. The best way for a rider to avoid this type of accident is to increase his/her visibility by running high beams (with the brightest headlight bulb that will fit the bike) in daytime riding. An argument could be made that loud pipes would help prevent this type of accident but no statistics support that. Additionally with modern cars being well sound insulated and with the volume levels of many car sound systems by the time loud pipes become a factor it will already be too late. Visibility is the key. This is proved out by the fact that this type accident almost never occurs at night when drivers naturally switch to looking for headlights instead of objects. A single headlight will still be quite visible in that situation and the left turn accident almost never happens after dark. So the best safety advice for any rider is, "Be seen, not heard." A few other things about loud pipes. All motorcycles sold in over a decade in the US have come out of the dealership with quiet pipes that are mandated by the EPA. Any louder pipes are not street legal. All aftermarket pipes sold in the US that are louder than OEM pipes will be stamped with either, "For Racing Purposes Only" or, "Not Legal For Street Use" or something similar. Any pipe louder than OEM pipes is a violation of the law. The only thing keeping most "Loud Pipe" riders from getting strings of tickets and having their bikes impounded is simply that most law enforcement just can't be bothered to write tickets for noise. Loud Pipes do have one certain affect though. They irritate local citizenry enough that bike bans are often enacted in many areas. Ask anyone at the American Motorcycle Association (AMA) headquarters, after fighting helmet laws they spend most of their legislative funds on fighting bike bans that are a direct result of riders with loud pipes. Every rider who thinks he is being cool riding around with loud pipes is actually making enemies for the riding community, including him/herself. Unbaffled pipes are great for increasing top end horsepower which is fine if you are racing in excess of 100 mph all the time, but the lack of flow back pressure actually reduces low end torque which is a lot more useful for the average street rider. Unbaffled pipes also reduce fuel mileage, maybe not much of a factor for a bike, but with current fuel prices it is something to consider. Finally my own anecdote - I had ridden my bike to a local department store. As I was leaving and began to mount and start my bike a little girl of about 3 years old was sitting in a shopping cart next to me while her mother unloaded the cart into their car. The girl saw me getting ready to start and put her fingers in her ears and squinted her face down. Why? Because experience around loud pipe bikes had already taught her that when my bike started it was going to hurt her ears. When I started up and my bike only made a soft purr she first looked surprised and then took her fingers out of her ears and gave me a big smile and a wave. Her mother had seen this go on and also smiled at me and then mouthed the words, "Thank You." Quiet pipes can make friends for motorcycles. Thanks; it's a great post.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:26:41 PM)
Jacked up pickup truck -small dick Loud motorcycle - small dick Overly big guns - small dick

RapierFugue -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:29:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raechard It’s so funny bikers preaching to the rest of us about the highway code when the majority of them don’t even follow the speed limit and will happily zip past you on a blind bend. (edit: spelling, probably still wrong) No biker worth a light will overtake on a blind bend … however, what you may have failed to realise is that, when on a bike, and opening out the line, you can see a great deal more than the car driver to your left, so what you can't see (hence calling it a "blind" bend), we can. I drive cars, I ride bikes, I walk. Generally speaking, I find bikers have the best road sense of the lot. For the simple reason that, through natural selection, those who don’t tend to get squished. Also, I can't see anyone "preaching" the Highway Code to anyone in this thread, nor do most bikers fail to obey 30 and 40 limits ... nationals are a different matter, however, and so they should be.

TPESOSWanted -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:31:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Jacked up pickup truck -small dick Loud motorcycle - small dick Overly big guns - small dick WAAAAAIT just a minute ... are you implying that my Barret Pistol means my dick is smaller than my forearm?

RapierFugue -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:33:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zensee If you are having two or three close encounters with pedestrians every day it's your driving skills that are at fault. The proper (and legal) presumption of a licensed driver is that anyone not in a vehicle has NO road awareness at all and the drivers should adjust their driving accordingly. Congrats. Single most clueless and uninformed post I’ve ever seen on CM, and I’ve seen a few. Top job! quote: ORIGINAL: Zensee Pedestrians are responsible for their own behaviour but that does not excuse drivers from taking all and any precautions necessary to prevent collisions. Paying attention is a good start. Thanks for the patronising, uniformed advice, but drivers and riders failing to “pay attention” anywhere around here would be dead or nicked in seconds flat. If a ped decides to wander out blind, from between 2 stationary vehicles, right in front of me, then they're going to get squished. End of story.

DesertRat -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:34:10 PM)
~fr~ ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind quote: Finally my own anecdote - I had ridden my bike to a local department store. As I was leaving and began to mount and start my bike a little girl of about 3 years old was sitting in a shopping cart next to me while her mother unloaded the cart into their car. The girl saw me getting ready to start and put her fingers in her ears and squinted her face down. Why? Because experience around loud pipe bikes had already taught her that when my bike started it was going to hurt her ears. When I started up and my bike only made a soft purr she first looked surprised and then took her fingers out of her ears and gave me a big smile and a wave. Her mother had seen this go on and also smiled at me and then mouthed the words, "Thank You." I've got one, too: Came out of the store and three young guys were looking at my bike. One of them said they wanted to hear what it sounded like when I started it. Got on and thumbed the starter...it purred and hummed like a Ford Escort. They looked pretty disappointed. I was chuckling inside my helmet. I guess I lost some studliness points in their estimation. Somehow I've survived that. Bob

TPESOSWanted -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:37:42 PM)
Hear hear! OLD Bikers are smart bikers ... Darwin says so. I run w/ stock pipes and even I won't follow bikes w/ straight pipes! I had 3 assholes racing up & down my dead-end street today ... they make a bad name for all of us. quote: I find bikers have the best road sense of the lot. For the simple reason that, through natural selection, those who don’t tend to get squished.

RapierFugue -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:42:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesertRat quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue Incorrect. A bike engine that’s jetted and set-up correctly will generally show an increase across the range. As an example, dyno charts for my old 9R showed a healthy 5 bhp increase from 2,000 rpm up, peaking at 11 bhp at the redline. What doesn’t work is just shoving a race exhaust on a bike without changing the fuelling; jetting on carbs, injection and ignition map in FI bikes. I stand corrected. Thing is, here in the States, that's what most riders do...slap on an exhaust system without rejetting or remapping. Really? Ah well, in that case all they’re doing is burning more fuel without making the most of it. That was the case in the UK up until maybe 10 years ago; then, more dyno shops opened up, and people started to realise that an exhaust without fuelling changes was a total waste of money. quote: ORIGINAL: DesertRat Incorrect. The highest top speed, measured by radar, for a '90 FZR1000 (an EXUP to you Brits) that I ever read was dead-on 170 mph. The lowest was 166, with some 168s in there, as well. I know what the bike is, I just seriously doubt the claimed top speed, unless modified. But we can agree to differ. quote: Speedos lie like cheap watches … in fact, in the US and Europe, they HAVE to lie, by law. Yes, they read about 15% high, on average. I don't think that's mandated, though. In the UK, Construction & Use regulations specify a minimum 10% over-read. Same in Europe, and I'm fairly sure same in the US, unless state-specific laws dictate otherwise.

PrimitiveLogic -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:45:14 PM)
Pick your poison...inconsideration comes in all genres regardless of noise maker. However; there is a new set of bike pipes on the market that electronically open or close baffles to fit the circumstance. Personally I have 2 sets of slip ons for my Electraglide...moderately loud which came on it...and stock which I ordered as soon as I got it home. I prefer to be appreciated for my positive attribues instead of hated for my faults. My second bike is a Suzuki VZ800...sounds like the jestsons car....vzzzzzzzzzz. Imagine, actually conversing while riding in the country. I wonder if using a tourettes horn might be a better solution instead of loud pipes? F@#$@#%!!!! Well at least it would make me feel better.

pahunkboy -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:45:58 PM)
the noise could also be a souped up Trans Am. Corvette- someone with a broken muffler.

Raechard -> RE: Loud Motorcycles (10/20/2007 1:52:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue No biker worth a light will overtake on a blind bend … however, what you may have failed to realise is that, when on a bike, and opening out the line, you can see a great deal more than the car driver to your left, so what you can't see (hence calling it a "blind" bend), we can. Maybe quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue I drive cars, I ride bikes, I walk. Generally speaking, I find bikers have the best road sense of the lot. For the simple reason that, through natural selection, those who don’t tend to get squished. quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue Also, I can't see anyone "preaching" the Highway Code to anyone in this thread, nor do most bikers fail to obey 30 and 40 limits ... nationals are a different matter, however, and so they should be. I’ve held a licence for nine years I have only rarely seen a biker remain a fixed distance behind me when I am driving at the speed limit. So my question is whose speedometer is wrong? I call it like I see it and obviously exceptions exist but they are in the minority from my perspective. quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue It’s got much worse since mobile phones got so popular … people blithely wander across the road, chatting away, regardless. It might be easier in US cities … you guys don’t allow peds to throw themselves off the pavement at will, right? Something called “jay walking”? Sounds like preaching the Highway Code to me. I’d also remind you that you need a licence to drive not walk.

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