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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 1:43:48 PM   
catize


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigrita

loving who I am rather than actually feeling ashamed of it.  It can get more intense to the point where I really do get into a humbled/humilliated, even degraded headspace, but after coming out of it I feel empowered because it kind of conquers self-esteem issues of old.  Knowing that I can go there and come back and still have value and strength in myself is the ultimate conquest of those issues. 

So, I don't have any additional definitions or new words, but thougt I'd share that you're not alone in the way you enjoy humiliation play.


Yes I have often said how wonderful  it feels to celebrate that truth rather than feel I need to hide who I am. 
Thanks, Tigrita.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 1:43:48 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Humilation can result in two possible results in my view

To Be Degraded.

or

To Be Humbled.

Each person has a Baseline.  When we are humilated and brought back to our baseline... I see this as being Humbled.  When our Basline is attacked and suffers because of it.. I see this as being degraded.

The baseline is a simple way as expressing our Esteem and Confidence levels which is rather complex.


edited to add:

I think that being brought back to our baseline can be a rather Empowering experience.  Often times when we get stretched beyond that confidence level one of two things can occur... we gain confidence or we fall short.  The falling short is when we feel humiliated.  When such an event occurs and it does so in a manner which is constructive to ourselves... that is when we gain that empowering feeling.  I believe one of the effects because of the humilation and the resulting empowerment that occurs is that our baseline actually grows. 


< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 10/20/2007 1:49:54 PM >

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 1:45:37 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		"Humbled" and "humiliated" come from the same root: Latin humus, meaning "earth"--so "humiliated" means "brought down to the earth."  Humilis is "lowly like the earth."  "Humbled" went through a few sound changes because it came to us from Old French.  ("Exhume" is related too.)  Their meanings are very close because they derive from the same word.

If you like "humbled" better than "humiliated," that's fine, but I wouldn't want to obscure the paradox that you feel exalted by being humiliated.  That's part of what makes it hot, and part of what distinguishes you (and your dom, for that matter) from most other people.  So maybe "humiliated" is right after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Is it simply semantics or does humble explain it better?

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 1:53:24 PM   
catize


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Humilation can result in two possible results in my view

To Be Degraded.

or

To Be Humbled.

Each person has a Baseline.  When we are humilated and brought back to our baseline... I see this as being Humbled.  When our Basline is attacked and suffers because of it.. I see this as being degraded.

The baseline is a simple way as expressing our Esteem and Confidence levels which is rather complex.

Thanks much, Knight!
This is where I was going in the OP when I said I know that there are things that I couldn't tolerate.  I like your thought of the ability to return to baseline is what makes the difference. 
Complex, yes indeed and I'm beginning to understand why some dominants are hesitant to use it. 

< Message edited by catize -- 10/20/2007 1:54:19 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 2:04:20 PM   
catize


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quote:

  
If you like "humbled" better than "humiliated," that's fine, but I wouldn't want to obscure the paradox that you feel exalted by being humiliated.  That's part of what makes it hot, and part of what distinguishes you (and your dom, for that matter) from most other people.  So maybe "humiliated" is right after all. 


LaM, I don't want to obscure the paradox, but it puzzles me and  I'm trying to understand it.  Maybe I never really will 'get' the why of it but you're right, It is HOT!
Thanks for the info on word origin as well, I appreciate learning about our language.  It also explains why I don't like the food called humus!  Hee

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 2:21:42 PM   
shycara


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quote:

I think that being brought back to our baseline can be a rather Empowering experience.  Often times when we get stretched beyond that confidence level one of two things can occur... we gain confidence or we fall short.  The falling short is when we feel humiliated.  When such an event occurs and it does so in a manner which is constructive to ourselves... that is when we gain that empowering feeling.  I believe one of the effects because of the humilation and the resulting empowerment that occurs is that our baseline actually grows. 


i can see how learning from falling short on the soccer field, or similar, can be constructive to ourselves, but it's pretty hard to see how this reasoning applies when it comes to crawling around on the floor nude and in high heels...

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 2:34:06 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Humiliation or to Humble within bdsm realm is imo a valuable tool.

It reminds the submissive that her security and worth as an idividual is contemplated and decidedly 'consecrated'.

ie:

Dominant: I see this/these falw/fault in you.  I know these falws/fault in you. I will confront you about these flaws/faults. I will make you see them too. I KNOW you.

submissive: shakes in her shoes

Dominant: Ah, yes, but I still love and want you despite them. 

Humiliation of this sort is a temporary action to derive an exchange of trust by an unbiased coupling. A mere reminder that despite a flaw, a submissive is still adored as unique and invaluable prize. 


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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 3:01:35 PM   
chellekitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Dominant: Ah, yes, but I still love and want you despite them. 



i beg to differ...i see it as

Dominant: And I love you because you are free with me and there is nothing hidden.


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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 3:26:18 PM   
totallycoverme


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Status: offline 		I'm very happy to see that we're talking about the psychology and language of bdsm as this is a very inspiring read..all of your points have been really interesting..i think i agree with the notion that its humbling that a D would take the time and effort to erotically humiliate you in their honour. I guess also the liberation of being humiliated and enjoying it can be quite a pleasnt notion

(in reply to tricia)
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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 3:27:28 PM   
catize


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Dominant: Ah, yes, but I still love and want you despite them. 



i beg to differ...i see it as

Dominant: And I love you because you are free with me and there is nothing hidden.


I'm with Chellekitty on this.  As I said earlier it is a celebration of the person, a lesson that the dominant loves us at our sweaty dirty best.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 3:32:32 PM   
came4U


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From: London, Ontario
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quote:

And I love you because you are free with me and there is nothing hidden.


that is a basic given before the act of humility even begins.

later, one would realize that justification is much deeper and the psychology behind the humiliation being done is beyond 'ok, I've submitted freely, now what?'

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 4:44:20 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		dom domme use many tools to get a submissive to do things or to learn things.I see humilation as a learning tool. nothing more or less

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 5:21:56 PM   
catize


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Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

 I see humilation as a learning tool. nothing more or less  


A learning tool may be one aspect but I believe it is more multi-faceted. 
Do you see it is  only to be used in a punishing or negative way? 

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 6:01:38 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I'll just add that again humiliation and degradation are completely different experiences and that it's completely possible to LOVE the humiliation and HATE the humiliation at the same time.  As I've said before, we are that fucked up.

Oh and these:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_557686/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#557707
Embarassment vs humiliation

http://www.collarchat.com/m_354018/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#354196
humiliation???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_412944/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#413037
what is good humiliation to you?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_426015/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#426025
humiliation vs degradation

http://www.collarchat.com/m_489256/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#489324
humiliation and vulnerability

http://www.collarchat.com/m_310209/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#310223
Humiliation- verbal and physical

http://www.collarchat.com/m_266448/mpage_1/key_humiliation/tm.htm#266532
humiliation ideas

Slaves on display via webcam?

Fat Cow? Verbal humiliation (rehashed)

Humiliation and Degradation

Erotic Humiliation

Female Humiliation- in the scene

Asking for humiliation

Favorite Forms of humiliation

Humiliation

Humliation Play

Favorite forms of humiliation

Erotic Humiliation and Objectification

Why such problems with humiliation?

Fun ideas for humiliation

Humiliation (2)

Verbal Humiliation

Help with humiliation please!

Your thoughts on humiliation please

Questions about humiliation



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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 6:49:25 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Humbling is to simply step in, and remove the mask.

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/20/2007 10:07:20 PM   
junecleaver


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Joined: 4/6/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

How then can it posibly be humiliation?

quote:



Because you're a sick puppy.

quote:


What then should I name it if it isn’t humiliation?


I think of it as humiliation.  I don't need to define it any other way.  I just happen to get off on some things that are humiliating. 

quote:


But humbled seems to be a slightly better description than humiliated. At the very least it sits a little more comfortably in my brain.


I'm in a relationship and if my dominant wants to humiliate/degrade/humble me, he will and the name it is called by isn't that important.  I can understand why others would seek to be more specific in their definitions with negotiating and being able to establish boundaries.

I think many of the people who try to distinguish 'differences' may have difficulty admitting that they enjoy being humliiated or that their partner truly wants to humiliate them.  Humbled certainly sounds less harsh than humiliation, but I think it is more or less the same thing.


_____________________________


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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/21/2007 3:57:11 AM   
Cyntilating


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quote:

ORIGINAL: junecleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

How then can it posibly be humiliation?

quote:



Because you're a sick puppy.

quote:


What then should I name it if it isn’t humiliation?


I think of it as humiliation.  I don't need to define it any other way.  I just happen to get off on some things that are humiliating. 

quote:


But humbled seems to be a slightly better description than humiliated. At the very least it sits a little more comfortably in my brain.


I'm in a relationship and if my dominant wants to humiliate/degrade/humble me, he will and the name it is called by isn't that important.  I can understand why others would seek to be more specific in their definitions with negotiating and being able to establish boundaries.

I think many of the people who try to distinguish 'differences' may have difficulty admitting that they enjoy being humliiated or that their partner truly wants to humiliate them.  Humbled certainly sounds less harsh than humiliation, but I think it is more or less the same thing.



Naw...not me LOL  ...I have no trouble admitting to anything we or I do at this point.....in fact my bigger problem is that I have trouble now NOT shouting it from the rafters with feelings of exhaultation.
ok that was a bit too dramatic for 5am..
but anyway.
 
even the term "harsh"  you use> has changed in context for me.
 
just roaming around my head :
  ...maybe the reason for the "distinguishing the difference" is because most of us along the way (childhood and such) have been made to hear the term "humiliation" in a very negative way.
  ie
    "ohhh  go change your socks, they don't match and that would be humiliating"
" do not do that in public ! thats humiliating"
"if someone sees you as different it could be humilating, try to blend in."
" oh dear god, do not tell anyone, you will humiliate the family"
 
my point I guess is that >  whatever you call it, we are no longer experiencing it as a negative..  it feels positive and so a negative term no longer feels adequate or okay.
  and so our logic wants a different definition to catch up with our bodies and minds reaction..
 
 
 

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.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

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RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/21/2007 4:30:51 AM   
catize


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Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

Because you're a sick puppy.   


quote:

  Humbled certainly sounds less harsh than humiliation, but I think it is more or less the same thing.

I have no problem with the fact I like humiliation, so maybe that's why I want a 'kinder'  word. I dunno! 
Everyone who responded has given me ideas and food for thought.  Thanks for your input, Junecleaver!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/21/2007 4:34:15 AM   
catize


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quote:

  my point I guess is that >  whatever you call it, we are no longer experiencing it as a negative..  it feels positive and so a negative term no longer feels adequate or okay.
  and so our logic wants a different definition to catch up with our bodies and minds reaction..


That pretty much sums it up for me! 

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Humiliated or Humbled - 10/21/2007 4:43:07 AM   
flag133


Posts: 19
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		beeing humiliated makes me better fell my limits and beeing exposed to someone and depend on his/her will is a sort of happiness.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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