RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (Full Version)

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LDRandAstarte -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 12:00:16 AM)

~fast reply~

Good grief! Don't worry I'll start the popcorn.
Are there no mentaly balanced people around here?
Has everyone got PTSD, MPD, or BiPOLAR? I'm starting to think this might not be a healty lifestyle after all, and it's only taken 22 years to realize it!



laurell3 -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 1:44:12 AM)

Well I've got news for you LDR, it's all around you everywhere in nonbdsm life as well.  We're just more open about it here for the most part.  Having a past you didn't ask for doesn't make one unhealthy, not dealing with it does. 



gypsygrl -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 4:23:47 AM)

quote:

there is a natural, predictable progression anyone will follow if and when they go deep enough, and it doesn't always have to do with intense physical stimulation; it has to do with how deep a state of subspace they achieve.


Interesting.  I don't have nearly enough experience to really know but I've often wondered if some of my reactions during a session or other interaction with my Master have anything to do with PTSD or just tap into the same psychological/neurological/ physiological processes given that sessioning is a way of artificially creating a traumatic event.  It may be that because I've been through various little traumas, and one major one (not abuse related, btw...my classic PTSD's refer to the birth of my first um) that I'm very much aware of normal trauma responses and am over-analyzing.  It may be that I can't find specific triggers because there aren't any; there may be no there there.

After my last negative experience at a play party where I went way deep then came out really fast ready for a fight, I commented to my Master that I needed to cut myself some slack.  My thinking is that if you grab a random person off the street, string 'em up in a dungeon in front of a lot of people and started beating the hell out of them, they're gonna have some issues.  I think sometimes its easy to lose perspective, and forget what it is that we're doing with our bodies, our selves and our psyches. 



gypsygrl -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 4:33:32 AM)

quote:

Are there no mentaly balanced people around here?
Has everyone got PTSD, MPD,


Most people who work in the field of trauma and dissociative disorders view things like PTSD and DID as a way of maintaining psychic health and balance in extreme circumstances.  Dissociative and other reactions are rational repsonses to extreme circumastances.



Dnomyar -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 11:41:29 AM)

One of the othere answers was a fight to surive instinct. That can be a very dangerous place to go. Not for the person it is happening to but for the people around them. A good reason to be careful and keep your play under control.



sammiebabygirl -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 12:16:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
Having a past you didn't ask for doesn't make one unhealthy, not dealing with it does. 


Very well put, laurell. I have often thought that those of us that have gone through, what we have and dealt with it, make us more self aware than most people in general.
 
jen



Kana -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 1:00:29 PM)

I am pretty careful about this stuff actually. It’s happened with at least two people that I have interacted with, both of whom had experienced childhood trauma. The first as an aversion to slapping, she just locks up tight and shuts down completely. So I don't slap her, She also got uptight when someone touched her when she didn't see it coming, there was always a moment where she flinched. So I got cautious about what I was doing around her. In a scene its not so tough, I lock in so tight on what is going on all around that it just became part of the focus, I can initiate a reaction in any umber of ways, I don't need to slap. Outside a scene I made sure that I came at her from angles where she could see me coming that she knew that my hands were open and not clenched. For her it wasn't a thing that she could control mentally, it was something that just happened involuntarily and reflexively.
The other one had major trust issues, it took a long time to peel back the layers and get her to do basic things, look me in the eye when I commanded her to, speak up enough so I could hear her. That involved patience and a lot of support, more outside of a scene than inside. It had a whole lot more to do with me encouraging her in a lot of other areas in her life and then her going out and succeeding. She had always been taught that she was o good and a failure, when it was all just a mind fuck. She was as good and as worthy as anyone I have ever met. As far as play, she just had real issues with pain play in any form. She loved D/S, and craved bondage, she felt safe and secure and loved and trusted when bound, but any sort of hard pain just sent her into a trance, and not the good kind. The irony is that people she was chatting with online were saying things like, “Well a real Master wouldn’t let you get away with that. You are topping from the bottom.” By doing so they were making her question herself in BDSM as well as in every other area of her life. Such BS. I think that they had freaking agendas, and that few if any of them had her best interests in mind. Wanna know what. I became a better Dom and a better man as a result, more imaginative, more creative, more flexible and best of all, I still talk to those women all the time. One thing I do now is at some point early on we have a talk about what she can take and what she can’t. I don’t want to hit any trips mines in her head that I can avoid if possible. I learned and the effort that I put in was well spent. The other thing not to forget is that I have trip wires too. We all do, that’s just life. Call it PTSD, call it whatever, you hit certain areas of my life and you are going to elicit a response, often before I think about it. We all have fears that curse through our lives.I try to react towrads others as I would hope they would be considerate of mine.



SunnyTawse -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 7:40:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

Are there no mentaly balanced people around here?
Has everyone got PTSD, MPD, or BiPOLAR? I'm starting to think this might not be a healty lifestyle after all, and it's only taken 22 years to realize it!



You do realize, of course, that you are participating in a thread on "PTSD reaction during sex/play," yes...?



SunnyTawse -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 7:47:11 PM)

Here's a link to F.R.R. Mallory's comments on subspace, in which she makes reference to the non-verbal and primal stages of subspace. I have more detailed information somewhere but can't lay my hands on it at the moment... and the damn laundry beckons. I clearly need a house boy so that I have more time to pursue my... <ahem>... serious interests.
http://www.steel-door.com/Sub_Space.html

I don't agree with Mallory all the time, but she does present an interesting perspective on something that I experienced several times with my first submissive... somehting damn scary, I might add.

Sunny



MiladyJade -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 7:47:26 PM)

Short answer: Yes, it's happened to me.

I was also abused by someone I knew - tortured, raped, and almost murdered.

For a long time afterward, my partner and I could be going merrily down a sexy path, and I would flip out- never got violent, but I'd pull away, I'd cry, I'd push him off of me, I'd closet myself in the bathroom, etc... just so I didn't have to be touched. There were trigger words, and trigger smells that kicked me into it.. and it was terrible.

Seek help, and be open to it.



DominaSmartass -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 10:57:14 PM)

Hmmm....Am I the only one whose PSTD was actually caused by a dom to begin with? I spent some time in a relationship with a true emotional sadist who seemed to like watching me fall into panic attacks and maybe even induce them intentionally. I will probably never know the truth on that one. But to answer the original question simply, yes, been there with the PTSD and play thing (soon after leaving the original one, every other time I tried to bottom lead to flashbacks.) In my instance, only time and good friends and kink-friendly psychologist helped to heal over the rawness of trauma, but eventually it did. I wish everyone who struggles with these issues the same good luck in healing.



MadamI -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/22/2007 11:57:52 PM)

dear onesweetsubbie and others .... Yes, flash backs can be FREAKY and it seems lots of U/us have experienced PTSD at some point during play - not surprising, when we are entering such deep psychological states. A sub boi I played with one time went into full blown panic when I took off his blindfold and I was holding a flame. He had been in a fire as a child - the combination of the  loss of vision followed by the flame was a powerful trigger. the boi and I had of course discussed limits beforehand, but this was so unpredictable .... it had never happened to him before.
As FangsNfeet said, I ensure bondage can be quickly removed, light/air restored and comfort is ready!
Cheers, MadamI





LDRandAstarte -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/23/2007 1:06:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunnyTawse

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

Are there no mentaly balanced people around here?
Has everyone got PTSD, MPD, or BiPOLAR? I'm starting to think this might not be a healty lifestyle after all, and it's only taken 22 years to realize it!



You do realize, of course, that you are participating in a thread on "PTSD reaction during sex/play," yes...?



That's a no-shitter! Doesn't change the subject. Still amazed at the number of "Me too" resonses.



chellekitty -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/23/2007 3:36:24 PM)

welcome to the jungle, we've got fun and games...

umm...for all the "me too" responses...how many "not me" responses were there not? and that makes what percentage of the posting population on the CM boards have PTSD, DID (its no longer MPD, please fastforward to the present) and Bipolar? now....i am going to make a giant illogical leap like you did and say thats a representative cross section of the lifestyle....its not that many people...and if you went to an HUGE international BDSM event you might run across 1 or 3 or absofuckinglutely none...so....did i stay on subject?



Kaiynasha -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/23/2007 3:53:39 PM)

Flashbacks are very difficult. A therapist would probably be beneficial. You may wish to find someone who has training in post-trauma and maybe even EMDR. If you dont know what EMDR is- in brief it is 5-6 session that could help and even eliminate flashbacks.

You not remembering is called disassociation. Many individuals who have been assaulted go through this. It is normal, but it does need to be dealt with and handle. I am glad you had someone who was there to help you through it

I would advise no more alcohol during a session.




LDRandAstarte -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/23/2007 10:53:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

welcome to the jungle, we've got fun and games...

umm...for all the "me too" responses...how many "not me" responses were there not? and that makes what percentage of the posting population on the CM boards have PTSD, DID (its no longer MPD, please fastforward to the present) and Bipolar? now....i am going to make a giant illogical leap like you did and say thats a representative cross section of the lifestyle....its not that many people...and if you went to an HUGE international BDSM event you might run across 1 or 3 or absofuckinglutely none...so....did i stay on subject?



Well, just a quick scan through this thread produced the following nubmbers;
3 pages long / 20 responses per page = 60 postings
many of them are the same person posting several posts, so being generous I will say 30 - 35 people involved in the thread (just a guess but prolly ~snicker~ close)
And 15 of them are stating they have PTSD, MPD or some kind of mental dysfunction at one timne or another.

That would amount to a few more then "1 or 3 or absofuckinglutely none"
That is scary, I still am wondering how safe this lifestyle is at this point!
(edited for fat fingers)



welshwmn3 -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/23/2007 11:07:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

That is scary, I still am wondering how safe this lifestyle is at this point!



"Safety" in BDSM is an illusion.  Yes, we (general we here) can educate ourselves on the 'safe' way to tie somebody up, the 'safe' way to engage in fire play, or knife play, or whatever play, the 'safe' way to do whatever.  The fact is, a lot of the activities that are engaged in are dangerous, possibly life-threatening (such as breath play).  These activities can go from being relatively safe (having one's hands tied behind one's back) to dangerous (the bottom struggled and the ropes/knot tightened and compressed a nerve and they get nerve damage) in the blink of an eye.  Isn't that why there's so much discussion of never leaving a bound person alone, always check the hands, always have safety shears to cut off the rope/leather cuffs if it's needed quickly?

So why are you saying, because a person has PTSD, DID, BiPolar or whatever, that these activities aren't safe? 

These activities *aren't* safe.  The problems that the dom or the sub may have has nothing to do with it.



MidnightMaiden -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/24/2007 2:26:05 AM)

quote:


And 15 of them are stating they have PTSD, MPD or some kind of mental dysfunction at one timne or another.

That would amount to a few more then "1 or 3 or absofuckinglutely none"
That is scary, I still am wondering how safe this lifestyle is at this point!
(edited for fat fingers)


Statistics show that one in four women are sexually abused as children.  That is based on reported crimes (estimations are that it is much higher), and doesnt take into account children who had more than one abuser.  Why are you suprised that so many have been diagnosed with PTSD or similar conditions?  It wouldnt be any different if you asked a forum set up by quilters to be totally honest.

Edited to add:  not that child sex abuse is the only cause of PTSD, or that all survivors have PTSD, was merely looking at those figures and pointing to them as one possible reason why so many can come forward and state they have it (regardless of their current sexual lifestyle) ...

For the OP try and be as aware as you can be of any triggers before play, and discuss them openly with your Dom.  I have told my Master that there is a lot of "bad blood" between my real father and I and therefore I never wish to refer to him as Daddy.  Little things like that can make a big difference.



laurell3 -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/24/2007 2:29:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

welcome to the jungle, we've got fun and games...

umm...for all the "me too" responses...how many "not me" responses were there not? and that makes what percentage of the posting population on the CM boards have PTSD, DID (its no longer MPD, please fastforward to the present) and Bipolar? now....i am going to make a giant illogical leap like you did and say thats a representative cross section of the lifestyle....its not that many people...and if you went to an HUGE international BDSM event you might run across 1 or 3 or absofuckinglutely none...so....did i stay on subject?



Well, just a quick scan through this thread produced the following nubmbers;
3 pages long / 20 responses per page = 60 postings
many of them are the same person posting several posts, so being generous I will say 30 - 35 people involved in the thread (just a guess but prolly ~snicker~ close)
And 15 of them are stating they have PTSD, MPD or some kind of mental dysfunction at one timne or another.

That would amount to a few more then "1 or 3 or absofuckinglutely none"
That is scary, I still am wondering how safe this lifestyle is at this point!
(edited for fat fingers)


The obvious problem with your question is the assumption that the fact that there are people in the lifestyle with PTSD or other managable disorders makes it somehow unsafe.
It may come as a suprise to you, but you also have your issues, as do all human beings.  To respond to people that were placed in unwanted trauma and suffer some form of reaction to it as if they were somehow disgracing your world or making it "unsafe" is ludicrious.  They are not the abusers, they are the abused.
l



brattysarahjane -> RE: PTSD reaction during sex/play (10/24/2007 6:21:43 AM)

i had this happen to me before i was in the lifestyle.  weird thing is that i have had no flashbacks since being active in the lifestyle because i do have control over things (negotiation).  when i was abused, i had no control over things.  just something to think about.

bratty sarah jane



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