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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/21/2007 12:13:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well if we could get a liberatarian in the white house it would be a party of national stature then, break up this one(two) party system, which I am all for, even if the guy is a total Lyndon LaRouche. Whatever it takes to get off the dime.

Ron
thx, I will check the voting record, for all candidates. The link will be useful.

I agree, I'd like to see things shaken up a bit.

That's a good site, dig around you'll see a lot of info.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/22/2007 1:34:14 PM

MasterDoc1

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Ron: As I said I think he will be undeniably effective, if elected, at implementing the MOST important of his views: a consistantly non-interventionalist foreign policy. As commander in chief he would have full power in THAT area, UNLESS congress actually had the balls to actually declare war in which case he would prosecute the war vigorously. That ALONE would make his presidency the best in decades.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 22

RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/22/2007 1:54:09 PM

SeeksOnlyOne

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im gonna have to take a xanax to vote in the republican primary.........ugh

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to MasterDoc1)

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/22/2007 1:59:51 PM

b4u

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So sad that the American Presidency is bought instead of earned by a person or moral character. At least with the Clinton's America knows they are getting nothing and the Clinton's are buying.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/22/2007 5:29:54 PM

MasterDoc1

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Seeksonlyone: Thousands of people in Georgia and millions across the nation will share your pain when the primary comes to their state.
But the democrats have turned their back on their advocates of a non-interventionalist foreign policy whereas Ron Paul is gaining supporters every day.
His campaign is generating an awesome buzz.
And don't forget he is also the ONLY presidential candidate with traction who advocates the elimination of all federal laws banning marijuana!

< Message edited by MasterDoc1 -- 10/22/2007 5:31:13 PM >

(in reply to b4u)

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/22/2007 8:44:44 PM

awmslave

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The message is: both major US parties are corrupt and they led US into big trouble (combined debt now over 8 trillion). So, find independent candidate.

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/22/2007 11:23:24 PM

SugarMyChurro

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So, Ron Paul is independent now? That's not how it looks...

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/22/2007 11:48:41 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

A message to closet Republicans:

Ron Paul is an entertaining kook and no more than that. He was more or less cut from the same cloth as your average Libertarian (i.e. well-meaning, but wholly unrealistic and unwilling to factor into society what it really takes to maintain a robust economic system).

SMC when it comes to most government issues that you bring up I find myself basically in agreement with you and even on this one I can see what you are saying and i realize you are cheering on health care reform but i think rp even though he admittedly has lofty goals would quickly assess "whats possible" when faced with the reality of actually getting these goals accomplished.

Many people do not realize that rp is a beacon of hope that just maybe we can take our government back because when will we get another opportunity like this to someone in who actually is willing to do something for the people that is constitutional? It may never happen in either of our lifetime.

It would imo be worth putting health care off for another 4 years and kick our 2 party dictatorship in the teeth as a wake up call that the american people arent going to put up with this shit any longer. Even if he has goals that are stretching it a bit I like his message and I like his belief in the constitution and getting us back to the rule of law.

There is so much corruption of our 2 party dictatorship what good is a wonderful healthcare if the country is flushed down the tubes in the meantime.

Wouldnt it be nice to actually hear news you could at least 1/2 ay believe for a change? Itsd sad day when americans have to do what russians had to do under stalin and that is get our news over the short wave radio from other countries!

He has excellent points and correct solution "for the most part" imo.

How do you feel he is missing when you say unwilling to factor into society what it really takes to maintain a robust economic system.

What does it take?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 3:41:35 AM

SugarMyChurro

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In short, a mixed economic system is the only thing that will work at this point in time.

Some strict Constitutionalist laying ruin to many of the workings of modern government is just going to cause chaos. Once upon a time it might have been important to keep government below a certain size - thereby keeping it manageable and in true service to the people. Stepping in now with the same scheme is just going to cause untold hurt.

I believe part of the agenda of the GOP is to gut the federal government and bankrupt it. That vacuum will allow something quite horrible to take its place.

I see Paul as the GOP in sheep's clothing in this regard. And if instead he really is the loose cannon everyone claims he is, he'd be dead within a fortnight of reaching the oval office anyway. The GOP wants obedient servants not nuts on the loose.

Personally, I am seeking a candidate in favor of Universal Healthcare, against the continued Invasion of Iraq, and that supports abortion ad infinitum. Give me some anti-corporate person that is also concerned for the environment and I am mostly there.

I like Kucinich (almost across the board but I don't think he can win) and I like Edwards (who seems far more viable a candidate to me - he has mass appeal). Edwards for Prez, and Kucinich for VP might be hard to beat.

< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 10/23/2007 3:42:59 AM >

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 8:21:38 AM

MasterDoc1

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Sugar: If Kucinich were viable he would indeed be your ideal candidate. Unfortunately he is being totally ignored by the media and both Hillary AND Obama have one THOUSAND times the money Kucinich has. Kucinich is going NOWHERE.
Edwards is NOT, in any meaningful sense, an anti-war candidate. Not only did he vote FOR the war but he wants to continue our current "police the world" foreign policy. He would wind up getting us into a war with Iran next!
Did you look at this BRIEF article?
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mike_mej_071006_why_the_antiwar_left.htm
There is no need for us to disagree, Sugar.
IF come mid-January Kucinich has a real hope of winning then you should vote for him.
IF NOT then you need to remember that only in terms of Foreign Policy could President Ron Paul see 99% of his goals reached. In everything else it would at most be 50%. So ask yourself...99% of your most important pie? Isn't that worth a few bites out of lesser pies for you?
As of now Guliani and Romney have only 3 and 2 times the money Paul has for his campaign respectively (quite a difference from 1,000 to 1) . Paul can win!
You have until January 21 (in CALIFORNIA; other states DO vary; ask if interested) to change your registration to Republican to vote for peace and ROn Paul.
If we save TRILLIONS on a non-interventionalist foreign policy (while making our nation SAFER) the American people will hustle and use those trillions to solve ALL our other problems one way or another.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 30

RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 8:24:28 AM

farglebargle

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Why would you tolerate a system where a Candidate is "un-viable" simply because the War Industries Media ignores him ( due to his policies reducing their profitability ) and because he isn't sucking up to the special-interest groups providing bribes?

Shouldn't you be supporting someone like that instead of dismissing him?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to MasterDoc1)

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 8:40:12 AM

MasterDoc1

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Ron Paul has been viewed as UN-viable since day one. However his campaign is clearly breaking through the corporate media blackout because he has too many fervent supporters to ignore and, now, too much money for his campaign to be ignored.
Kucinich, as the one advocate of a non-interventionalist foreign policy in the Democratic party, would ideally get attention and money also. As I posted to Sugar right above he deserves attention.
Unfortunately he is NOT getting it and doesn't have the campaign money or the boots on the ground to seize it.
Since you in NY fargle it is too late for you to vote for RonPaul and against the war unless you are ALREADY registered as Republican (or unless he makes it to the general election).

(in reply to farglebargle)

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 11:40:21 AM

philosophy

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FR

...i still think it's depressing that a politician can be writen off merely because he or she hasn't raised as much money as someone else. Where does policy come into such an equation?

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 12:10:09 PM

bipolarber

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I'm still waiting for one of them to say the magic words:

"I, (candidate) promise to roll America back to what it was before George W. Bush and his cronies sleezed their way into office. I plan to repeal Patriot II, stop the wiretapping, end extraordinary renditions, ban torture, move the troops to the country that actually attacked us, shut down gitmo, restore the right of Habeas Corpus, and to block the US presidency from having any of the unconstitutional powers grabbed by the Bush Administration. Furthermore, the top 2% income earners will start paying their fair share, and S-CHIP will be restored and expanded."

The SOB who says THAT... or anything even close to that...has my full support. I don't care if he's a GOP asshole, or a spineless Democrat. I want to get back to living under the Constitution. Don't you?

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 12:14:26 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

I'm still waiting for one of them to say the magic words:

"I, (candidate) promise to roll America back to what it was before George W. Bush and his cronies sleezed their way into office. I plan to repeal Patriot II, stop the wiretapping, end extraordinary renditions, ban torture, move the troops to the country that actually attacked us, shut down gitmo, restore the right of Habeas Corpus, and to block the US presidency from having any of the unconstitutional powers grabbed by the Bush Administration. Furthermore, the top 2% income earners will start paying their fair share, and S-CHIP will be restored and expanded."

The SOB who says THAT... or anything even close to that...has my full support. I don't care if he's a GOP asshole, or a spineless Democrat. I want to get back to living under the Constitution. Don't you?

....well, not being a US citizen apparently the constitution doesn't apply to me. i can be executed under current US law purely on hearsay evidence...because i'm a foreigner. That being said, i'm surely yer actual US citizens would be a lot happier and, indeed, safer without that Patriot act......

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Post #: 35

RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 12:21:22 PM

MasterDoc1

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bipolarber:
Ron Paul is the leading advocate for EVERY one of the things you wrote UNTIL you got to the "furthermore". Is that enough?
Paul was one of THREE Republican members of congress to vote against the original patriot act!

< Message edited by MasterDoc1 -- 10/23/2007 12:27:44 PM >

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 2:14:44 PM

SuzanneKneeling

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Although I do think he's an extremist for his stances on abolishing the IRS (ah, who needs to maintain bridges in Minnesota or build levees in New Orleans?), I highly admire his courage and forthrightness in explaining how our foreign policy over the decades is coming home to roost. It takes a hell of a lot of guts for a politician - let alone someone running under the GOP banner - to make the blasphemous suggestion that maybe not all wars/invasions are a great idea.

That's not enough for me to vote for him (we badly need a Democratic administration to start fixing all the disastrous mistakes of the last few years). But if I saw him in person I would definitely want to thank him for his honesty.

(in reply to MasterDoc1)

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 2:38:54 PM

MasterDoc1

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Suzanne: Since you brought it up lets discuss the IRS. The income tax provides only ONE-THIRD of the money for the federal budget. If we adopt a foreign policy of non-intervention that much money will be saved right away. Why are we spending BILLIONS to defend South Korea from North? NOW (as oppossed to 50 years ago) South Korea is 3 times as populous as the North and 100 times as wealthy. They could and would defend themselves. Instead we make ourselves a target.
Why are we spending billions on troops stationed in Europe to defend them from the SOviet Union!? THere is no more Soviet Union!
Except for Kucinich, all the Democratic candidates will continue to waste those billions paying off the military-industrial complex! Hillary and Obama would keep us in Iraq and probably get us in a war in Iran too!
If we didn't have to spend trillions on our aggressive foreign policy the people of Louisiana could fix their own levees and the people in Minnessota their own bridges!
You have three weeks, Suzanne, until the deadline in Maryland for deciding whether or not to vote for a candidate who will CONTINUE to futilely attempt to police the world (with your tax dollars) (ANY of the democrats except Kucinich) or to change your registration for the primary in Maryland and vote for peace.
http://www.elections.state.md.us/
Ron Paul and peace or any of the viable democrats and endless "1984" style war.
Those are the choices; there is no other!

< Message edited by MasterDoc1 -- 10/23/2007 2:47:41 PM >

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 6:17:36 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

Since you in NY fargle it is too late for you to vote for RonPaul and against the war unless you are ALREADY registered as Republican (or unless he makes it to the general election).

I'd have to believe that voting serves any point, but to diffuse dissent enough to forestall a revolution.

I don't. I agree with the sentiment made famous by Emma Goldman: "If voting could change anything, it'd be illegal."

But do go ahead and enjoy your circle jerk, I mean election.... I try to derive as much entertainment from it as I can...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: A message to all undecided democrats - 10/23/2007 8:03:58 PM

MissSCD

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My opinion is this as far as my party is conserned. We lose either way we go. Both parties are so far to the right and left that they have lost touch with reality.
They really need to use focus groups again to regroup.

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 40

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