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Guilt - 10/22/2007 2:11:03 PM

gwendolyn

Posts: 188
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline

I'm curious about guilt levels of submissives/slaves. More specifically, when you've disappointed or irritated your Dom. I seem to be struggling with massive guilt. Every time Master gets upset, it tears me up inside. It's gotten to the point that he just finds it less painful to overlook minor infractions. I do not in any way, shape, or form want to top from the bottom. I feel like, on some subconscious level, that's what I'm doing. And yet, the feelings just overflow before I know what's happening.

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to overcome the guilt? Or perhaps something that your top-type has done to help you work through it?

_____________________________

Tell me what did you like about me?
And don't say my strength and daring.
'cause now I think I'm at your mercy;
And it's my first time for this kind of thing.

Post #: 1

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 2:16:26 PM

bostontwo

Posts: 43
Status: offline

Just vow to do a better job, recognizing your mistakes and taking action on them. No need to pester the dominant about it, when it's something you can handle yourself.

(in reply to gwendolyn)

Post #: 2

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 2:19:33 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I found that it has lessened enormously with time. And yes, less strictness and more nurturing in the beginning helped enormously.

I think it's a fear of abandonment, either physical or emotional. Once you have more time invested in the relationship, you will be more secure and thus not get as upset.

(in reply to bostontwo)

Post #: 3

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 2:24:11 PM

slavejes

Posts: 2
Joined: 9/3/2007
Status: offline

I think that guilt is an important part of my relationship with my master. It makes me think twice about breaking rules. I do not want to have to tell him i broke a rule, i do not want him to be disappointed in me. I think this can be a positive and you should not be trying to get rid of the guilt but perhaps you need to slow things down and work on dealing with rules. Also my Master knows that the worst thing that he could do to me is tell me that he is disappointed in me. I am glad that he knows this because he has promised to be careful about using those words. he would try to redirect me so that i would not continue to make the same mistakes. If i continue to make the same mistakes then we need to spend some time discussing why it is such an issue. Also my Master makes sure that his rules are ones that are practical for my life. he does not want to make a rule that i keep struggleing to follow. we talk about things and he makes sure that i am not headed into a situation that will end badly. I hope this helps
slavejes

(in reply to gwendolyn)

Post #: 4

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 2:27:41 PM

Tigrita

Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline

I don't go in for a punishment dynamic myself, but I've seen others mention that punishment for infractions can be cathartic, and stop the guilt and self-punishment processes. Seems for them punishment = attonement, and both dominant and submissive can then move forward. Though, I don't relate to this directly, so I'll stop there and let others speak on it.

_____________________________

~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

"Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them." - Charlotte

(in reply to slavejes)

Post #: 5

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 3:24:01 PM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

i guilt trip myself more than not, in or out of relationships, and in ordinary, everyday circumstances(usually because i can't seem to do enough for the people i care about);...

the only thing i've been able to do about it is to remind myself that i'm not superwoman, that i can't save the world, that there's ony one of me, and to not let the 'little shit' eat me away inside; oh yeah, and to avoid people who know these things about me and will use them against me.

(in reply to Tigrita)

Post #: 6

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 3:36:55 PM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigrita
I've seen others mention that punishment for infractions can be cathartic, and stop the guilt and self-punishment processes. Seems for them punishment = attonement, and both dominant and submissive can then move forward.

That's exactly how it is for me. There is such relief when i have taken my cane strokes even though i cry, sob and snot all the way through them. Its like a great weight is lifted and as tigrita says i feel i have paid my dues and can move on from it.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Tigrita)

Post #: 7

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 4:50:12 PM

pleasureforck

Posts: 95
Joined: 7/2/2007
Status: offline

I am working on this as well. I'm trying to look at it differently now to see if that helps. It may be helpful to you. If I break rules it isn't my job to punish myself. In fact I submitted to my Sir and gave him that power so it is wrong for me to take it on myself. As much as I don't want to break rules or make mistakes it will happen and I have to accept it. If he wants to punish me or not I must do as he wants. If he says its over than if I hold on to the guilt I am going against his wishes. This is easier said than done of course.

He is trying to help me all he can with this.

_____________________________

I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 8

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 5:20:40 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gwendolyn
...Does anyone have any suggestions about how to overcome the guilt?...

if it is really causing you significant issues and Master has no workable solutions for you, how about opening your mind and thinking about it like this for a time...

guilt is a selfish, luxurious indulgence. feeling bad from the guilt can take over your thoughts, your speech and eventually your behavior...when you indulge in the luxury of guilt that you lavish on yourself, it becomes your Master and that is what you serve.
oftentimes, guilt is a luxury of the ease of choosing to live in the past...or a function of the pleasure that comes from seeking blame for something that is out of your control(and that bothers you) for the present.
instead of being fully present and submitting to Master, who, this slave can only assume, will let you know when you have fucked up...you are usurping His control by indulging in your masochistic luxury of beating yourself up with guilt, without His consent or permission.
then, let it go.
good luck!

(in reply to gwendolyn)

Post #: 9

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 6:02:29 PM

LaMspeach

Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
if it is really causing you significant issues and Master has no workable solutions for you, how about opening your mind and thinking about it like this for a time...

guilt is a selfish, luxurious indulgence. feeling bad from the guilt can take over your thoughts, your speech and eventually your behavior...when you indulge in the luxury of guilt that you lavish on yourself, it becomes your Master and that is what you serve.
oftentimes, guilt is a luxury of the ease of choosing to live in the past...or a function of the pleasure that comes from seeking blame for something that is out of your control(and that bothers you) for the present.
instead of being fully present and submitting to Master, who, this slave can only assume, will let you know when you have fucked up...you are usurping His control by indulging in your masochistic luxury of beating yourself up with guilt, without His consent or permission.
then, let it go.
good luck!

Thank you, Mercnbeth, this touched a soft spot. The one thing that helps me is knowing Master will correct me when fuck up and i am not to take it upon myself to decide if i have pleased him.... he will make sure I do.

_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 10

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 6:11:50 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

What Beth wrote was very much along the lines of what I was thinking. Just to add to that...

Recognize the error, apologize, and make things right as smoothly and as quickly as possible. No sense in dragging out what he has to deal with as a result of my error. And, if he says things are fine, then let them be so. Do not make them "unfine" by turning it into something he has to deal with. My Master used to always tell me, "If I am upset with you, you will know it. You won't have to guess. So stop pretending that I am, when I'm not."

I take away his enjoyment of me when I'm off sulking about something he's told me to get over.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 10/22/2007 6:12:31 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 11

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 6:16:51 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

Every time Master gets upset, it tears me up inside. It's gotten to the point that he just finds it less painful to overlook minor infractions.

That seems like he is giving up.

Any kind of guilt in this capacity only proves his point. If you have guilt then obviously the mistakes were prone to be obvious to you when you made them, conciously or subconciously. A mistake is a diversion of one's proper useage of judgement.

How far will this go before you wake up to find he has totally given up because aren't putting effort into thinking before you act/talk or whatever the infraction was?

Erase yesterday's guilt from your mind and make a conscious decision to avoid mis-stepping again and again. It is a process only you can do willingly for your own benefit and betterment in his eyes.

quote:

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to overcome the guilt? Or perhaps something that your top-type has done to help you work through it?

He can't help you, if you don't attempt to help yourself. Seems like if he is letting the little things go that not soonafter it becomes too tiresome to even neglect the larger isses. Besides, you aren't only topping a man who refuses to give proper punishment for the improper deviences you struggle to inflict, you are manipulating yourself out of having a dominant who gives a sh*t day by day, minute by minute.

< Message edited by came4U -- 10/22/2007 6:18:00 PM >

(in reply to LaMspeach)

Post #: 12

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 7:57:58 PM

MiladyJade

Posts: 13
Joined: 10/21/2007
Status: offline

I was born into and raised by a Catholic family. I'm very familiar with guilt. Catholics are good at it- it's a wonderful control mechanism... and some emotionally sadistic folks use it as a tool to inflict control.

That being said (that was unrelated to your post, and more my own opinion on guilt), I threw off guilt years ago. It no longer has a place in my life. Do I feel bad about things? Yes, sometimes, but it's more out of a feeling that I could have done better. I believe that if I learn from a situation, guilt and regret are superfluous.

Next time, when you do something that upsets your Dom, or when you forget to do something that upsets your Dom, you have a couple options:

1) Construct a "learn from the situation" type of discussion. This often can take place between you and he/she, as a talk, or it can take the form of an essay- some sort of written assignment. In it, explain why you forgot to do the required thing, or why you did the offending thing (whatever the case may be), and then talk about why you feel badly for it. This will eventually spur a much deeper understanding of yourself, and will give your Dom a deeper understanding of you, as well. I've found that this works, with my own submissives.

2) Construct an "if>then" policy. It's a cause and effect policy. So, if you fail to do such-and-such, then you will be punished in this particular manner. Or, if you do such-and-such that you're forbidden to do, the punishment will be x. It makes things very cut and dry, and the punishment serves as your restitution for the thing done wrong.

(in reply to gwendolyn)

Post #: 13

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 8:12:07 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1298147/mpage_1/key_guilt/tm.htm#1299749
Guilt

Your guilt is selfish and suggesting you are far more important than you actually are. Your guilt allows you to escape from actually making changes and moving beyond yourself. Your guilt focuses on YOU, not him or the relationship.

Laugh at your stupid and selfish guilt and start living life.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to gwendolyn)

Post #: 14

RE: Guilt - 10/22/2007 8:24:12 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1298147/mpage_1/key_guilt/tm.htm#1299749
Guilt

Your guilt is selfish and suggesting you are far more important than you actually are. Your guilt allows you to escape from actually making changes and moving beyond yourself. Your guilt focuses on YOU, not him or the relationship.

Laugh at your stupid and selfish guilt and start living life.

Whew!..I was getting worried that once again I was the odd man out in my feelings..I generally do not suffer pangs of guilt unless I knowingly, and without care of the consequences CHOSE to do that which was wrong,stupid, or thoughtless...Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 15

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