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Casual play vrs pro - 10/25/2007 3:23:19 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Before I even go for the question...... Here's the disclaimer.
 
This thread was not started to piss in anyone's Wheaties, ruffle anyone's feathers, or start some flame war.  Believe it or not, I actually sit back and think about some of the things that pop up on these threads.  This one has been churning around in My mind a bit.
 
Is Pro-Domination seen at times like casual play, but with money exchanged?
 
(Dianna, if you're out there.... keep listening.)
 
A little background for those who aren't sick of listening to Me....
 
I have a submissive.  My boy is in My life and has a special place with Me.  However, I do still engage in casual play.  I don't do it for money.  I do it because it is fun and something that is enjoyed. There is no sex involved.  It is usually just a situation of two people, sharing a scene, because both of them want to do so.
 
Now, this question might be showing My lack of knowledge of the pro arena, but, is it similar?
 
If you want to flame in My ignorance of the sexual industry.... all I ask is that you bring the marshmellows.  I haven't had a good s'more in ages.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread
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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/25/2007 3:30:23 PM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		I play casually for many reasons:
  •   To get to know someone better
  •   For the fun of it
  •   To hone my skills
  •   To teach someone else
I play to grow; I find it reaffirming and fun!  Course...I play at my local dungeon; a safe place with lots of friends. 

Beverly


_____________________________

A must read for submissives! (click here)

This one, as well!

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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/25/2007 8:31:55 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Pro playing is casual, in that the dominant usually has little or no contact with the playmate outside the scene.  The sessions are self contained, and set up to fulfil the fantasy of the client, within the dominant's guidelines.  (I am not going to get into discussions of how all that works)  There is NO sexual contact with the dominant, though the client might be allowed release.  This is not to say that a relationship of sorts never develops----I left the pro scene, but I still see several clients socially. 

Many of my clients were married, attached, or out of town businessmen who couldn't or wouldn't get their needs met in the scene the way that we would.  I was/am very choosy about my clientele, and I didn't accept clients that I wouldn't have played with anyway.  I can't say the same is true for every pro dominant out there.  For me, if there's no fun, there's no point! 

Is this answering your question at all?

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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/25/2007 8:54:31 PM   
MamaDomme


Posts: 283
Joined: 12/28/2006
Status: offline 		I do at times engage in casual play with very select partners-- strictly because I choose to.

I rarely ProDomme anymore but do still have a couple of clients that I have had for years.  I really don't consider them *casual* because they are important to me and our situation is fairly unique.

When I was ProDomming on a regular basis, I considered most of it casual play with money exchanged-- but then again, I was very select with my clients.  They had to be referred to me and then not all were chosen.

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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/25/2007 9:17:09 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		It doesn't piss Me off at all.
My disclaimer:  I did Pro work for some time.  It is casual play within certan parameters as Francine (LadyHibiscus) described and I didn't really Pro scene with anyone that I would not have considered playing with under other circumstances. I always met then first and established some sort of comfortable connection.  However, they were usually married, otherwise engaged, or from out of town.  In other words, guys who wanted the fun but could not make the commitment for the whole deal. 
I have played at times just for the fun of playing and because I had the desire to do so. No problem.
When I am approached, all too often, by some who think that a quick email that they will be in town, or they are local, but would like to set up playtime, and expect it to be free, when I don't know them from Adam, it gets to Me.  Frankly, I am then being treated with the assumption that because I have an alternative lifestyle interest, and I advertise such, it means I am available for <insert preferred fetish here> with every horny boy out there who is "exploring his submissive side".  So I do take issue with those who come onto forums such as this one as complain about all the Ladies asking for money,.  If they would get off their asses, have some social skills, and present themselves consistently at public events and munches, their chances of some occasional casual play would be much greater. 
I know that wasn't the actual intent of this topic, but I did want to claify My position on Pro vs. casual freebies.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 7:05:57 AM   
underyourshoe


Posts: 18
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		i have seen a pro domme on a few occasions, and although it was great, it felt false and forced, maybe i just chose the wrong one. im yet to find someone who will play casual, ie in a relationship. past girlfriends have all found it odd, they werent into the scene at all. the search continues and ill never give up hope.

< Message edited by underyourshoe -- 10/26/2007 7:06:49 AM >

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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 7:08:28 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		The answers do help Me to understand a bit better.  I know a lot of folks don't do casual play, but I was wondering if it was a bit similar.  I'd love to hear if anyone has anything else to add.
 
Thanks for the time in giving the responses.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 8:42:04 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Okay, I think I see where you're coming from a little more clearly.

I don't know if you are an old timer in the scene, so maybe you don't remember the times when a person could go to a play party all on their own, and have half a dozen scenes in one night, on either or both sides of the whip, and have a great no-strings good time.  I am thinking back, maybe ten years ago.  We actually used to go to parties and PLAY, just for the sheer fun of it.  A scene did not mean that we were BFF with the person we were playing with, a scene didn't have deep meaning, it was just two or more people who may or may not have been friends outside that event hooking up for an hour of aggro, or wax, or bondage, or whatever. 

THAT is casual play!  And you bet I miss it!  What's so different about play now?  To begin with,  those folks playing appreciated each other, and shared a sense of cameraderie.  If they didn't act nice, word got around in a hot hurry, and play opportunities diminished.  Because there was a screening process, everyone at an event was had already jumped through at least one hoop, so was figured to have a certain level of sincerity, and at least a smidge of what was and wasn't A Good Idea.  Now, I don't want to paint a golden nostagic picture here, I am not saying things were all glitter and sunshine in the Olden Days when we drove to parties in our covered wagons.  From my POV, there has been a distinct change in how play is perceived, and what exactly happens in the course of a scene.  Not every scene is the end all and be all, it doesn't have to lead to a "relationship", a person already in a relationship can play with someone else (as long as they are not being dishonest) without that bond being wrecked.  That's why it's called PLAY.  I think many folks---and yes I blame the internet for this---have lost sight of that.

So, that's why I am happy to play casually, though now I do screen folks more closely than I did in the hope of avoiding wankers. 





_____________________________

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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 8:50:56 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		LadyPact,

I used to do some pro-work here and there and am now expanding it... And I don't find your question offensive at all.  Rather, thinking on it, it's probably an excellent way to explain what sessions are like to someone unfamiliar.  I'm glad you brought it up like that.

For me, that's been very much what it is like.  The tone, the feel, the interaction, negotiations, mood, etc is much that of non-pro casual play.... not looking for or requiring a special connection, just enjoying a period of mutual interests for themselves.

_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 9:10:38 AM   
YesMistressIrish


Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Pro playing is casual, in that the dominant usually has little or no contact with the playmate outside the scene.  The sessions are self contained, and set up to fulfil the fantasy of the client, within the dominant's guidelines.  (I am not going to get into discussions of how all that works)  There is NO sexual contact with the dominant, though the client might be allowed release.  This is not to say that a relationship of sorts never develops----I left the pro scene, but I still see several clients socially. 

Many of my clients were married, attached, or out of town businessmen who couldn't or wouldn't get their needs met in the scene the way that we would.  I was/am very choosy about my clientele, and I didn't accept clients that I wouldn't have played with anyway.  I can't say the same is true for every pro dominant out there.  For me, if there's no fun, there's no point! 

Is this answering your question at all?

This thread has been a very nice change from what went on the other day!
I like what several women have said here and wanted to add:

That special, magical and creative energy that happens for a domina when she feels a connection worthy of play is a very special thing. I think that's why the dommes who have shared it mention playing with people or Proing with people they feel a connection with.
Chemistry is important for creativity to flow naturally and to rev up that jazzy Domme energy.
For the subs looking for a pro: Find a Natural Pro Domme. Others do it just for the money and do not have that Goddess fire within and that might feel false and forced to both parties.

I used to go to fun play parties and want to find more local people to play with again.

MsBearlee put it nicely:
I play casually for many reasons:

  •   To get to know someone better
  •   For the fun of it
  •   To hone my skills
  •   To teach someone else

I play to grow; I find it reaffirming and fun!  Course...I play at my local dungeon; a safe place with lots of friends. 

Beverly
!~~~~~~~~~~~~

Irish

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 9:20:24 AM   
MsIncontrol


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		I also enjoy participating in casual play at events and parties.  Like Lady Hibiscus has stated this used to be a lot more fun 10-15 years ago.  I could go to a party with or without a date and do 5-6 scenes in a night..and have a blast.  It was like going to a dance with a dance card...subs would line up, we would talk about the different scenes we would like to do and make a time slot.

For me, I like to at least KNOW the person. Have seen them at events and have a general idea of what kind of player they are. I prefer when they come up to me respectfully and ask me if I would be interested in a scene with them without a specific request (can you spank me, can you tie me up etc).  Last Saturday at a party I had 3-4 men come up to me and ask me for a specific scene..some while I was in an intense scene with my submissive...tacky...and rude.

I am not nor have I ever been a pro, but I am friends with several.  While there are some pros that perform scenes like casual players and maintain the control with their clients, I think they are few and far between. There are some true submissives who create D/s relationships with their professional dominatrix' and has other life issues for needing to use a pro (marriage, discretion, profession) and isn't looking for anything more than to submit.  However, the majority of the pro's that I have seen actually have little power over their clients.   Usually the bottom wants the pro to dress in a specific way, do something specific to them. Fulfills a fantasy and they are willing to pay for it.  The customer is always right type of thing. 

The players who want to play like this are MUCH better off going to a professional to be "serviced" in the way in which they seek.   This is the type I try to avoid like the plague in my casual play.

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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 10:14:18 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Pro sessions can be like casual play and casual play can be like pro sessions ... in some cases the pro session will be dictated by the client's requests ... and in some cases casual play will be dictated by the bottom's requests ... in other cases the pro session will be dictated by what I feel like doing that day ...and in some cases casual play will be dictated by what I feel like doing...

For me, it really depends on how the wind blows ... and the person I am playing with ...

I remember one casual play session with a male sub from within the local scene ... his normal m.o was to dictate, literally, blow by blow, how he was to be caned ... I only ever let him get away with that once ... next time it was on my terms and my terms only ... the emailed thank you the next day said it all ... he'd never being caned like that before ... read as ... he'd never submitted to the cane before ... I gave him no choice but to let go and enjoy the ride ... and enjoy he did ...

Conversely a client, similiarly, literally dictated, blow by blow, how he was to be caned ... I never let him see me again ... once was enough...

I like the freedom to be who I am ...regardless of whether the session is paid or casual .. once my play partners/clients cotton on to that ... the fun begins ... up until then ...it's only make believe.





_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 1:09:21 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		LadyHibiscus, I did start out about ten years ago, and agree with you about the difference.  I think it's part of why I still engage in casual play.  The enjoyment of having multiple scenes during the evening still tingles Me in the best way.  They aren't the same as the connection I have with My own boy, but I don't think even he would want Me to give it up. 
 
Hi Rumpus and Irish.  Yes, I agree.  This thread seems to be coming over a lot more positively.
 
MsIncontrol, really enjoyed your comments.  Funny thing is, I still call it the dance card.  I honestly thought the term had been phased out.  What you describe is very much how I still negotiate casual play.  I don't go beyond the Top/bottom scenerio when I do it.
 
Jasmyn, thanks for sharing.
 
 

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 1:50:26 PM   
pageturned


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		Please tell me (nicely) how much I'm oversimplifying ...

Submission and dominance are about feelings. A different love. A relationship. Chemistry. Some works, some don't. Some last. Some don't. Each person is unique. Each relationship is unique.

Casual play is like a one-night stand (or more ...). Two people meeting, having fun (or not ...). Consensually. Each meeting, casual play, one-night stand is unique.

Pro-domination (absolutely no moral judgement) is like prostitution (ditto), or escorting (ditto). Consensual, involving money. A contract. About playing, not feeling. There's a client. Submissive, but still a client. Different power balance. Each contract is unique, each pro is unique.

People and situations are unique. Categories and analogies are tricky. What is really relevant, always, is consent. Then, if you don't break laws, nor harm the other person, it's ok.



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RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 2:17:48 PM   
MamaDomme


Posts: 283
Joined: 12/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pageturned

Please tell me (nicely) how much I'm oversimplifying ...

Submission and dominance are about feelings. A different love. A relationship. Chemistry. Some works, some don't. Some last. Some don't. Each person is unique. Each relationship is unique.

Casual play is like a one-night stand (or more ...). Two people meeting, having fun (or not ...). Consensually. Each meeting, casual play, one-night stand is unique.

Pro-domination (absolutely no moral judgement) is like prostitution (ditto), or escorting (ditto). Consensual, involving money. A contract. About playing, not feeling. There's a client. Submissive, but still a client. Different power balance. Each contract is unique, each pro is unique.

People and situations are unique. Categories and analogies are tricky. What is really relevant, always, is consent. Then, if you don't break laws, nor harm the other person, it's ok.





I have to disagree wholeheartedly with your simplifications.

As a former and still occasional ProDomme, I certainly was not, nor am, the same as a prostitute.  Yes, it was a contractual agreement, but the same can be said for my hairdresser.  She performs a service for me that she has talent for and I pay her.  She isn't a prostitute.

And if I didn't have some feelings for my clients, they didn't become my clients.  No, I didn't *love* them in a romantic way, but I also didn't have sex with them. 

When I engage in casual play, I do so with people I have some feelings for-- not *love*, but more than just hooking up with a complete stranger.

Any time I engage in any type of scene- whether it be a casual, a Pro session, or with someone that I am involved with- I have to have good chemistry to begin with or it isn't gonna happen with me.

Pageturned, while I do understand you trying to simplify things, I feel that you may be opening a can of worms for some people.

*edited to add-- generalizations are generally not a good thing. ;)

< Message edited by MamaDomme -- 10/26/2007 2:18:53 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 2:36:24 PM   
pageturned


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		I have no moral negative judgement for prostitutes. There might be good ones and bad ones, caring ones, and selfish ones. I'm not sure, and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but isn't there a prejudice against prostitutes? Can't they have feelings for their clients? It looks like that prodommes can be caring, deep, involved, while prostitutes  are all selfish, shallow, and cold.
My point was that it's about people, individuals, and not categories. I don't judge someone because they are prodommes, prostitutes, hairdressers, doctors, lawyers (well, maybe, in this case ...). But for what they are. Ot, at least, for what I perceive they are. Then, I can be wrong, make mistakes (and I indulge in that). But at least, they are my mistakes,  based  on my own judgement, experience, gut, and not on categories, labels, social standards.

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 2:47:48 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm going to very politely ask that this thread not go there.  That is one of the issues that always comes up with these types of threads.  The question had absolutely nothing to do with sex, or prostitution, or any veriation related. 
 
I think what you are associating the casual play experience to the one night stand thing is a bit off.  I engage in casual play, and I can assure you that it isn't the same. 

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to pageturned)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Casual play vrs pro - 10/26/2007 3:02:22 PM   
pageturned


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		Maybe there's a language barrier here. I'm not an English mother tongue.

I didn't want to divert the thread, nor to upset anyone. I was just expressing my thoughts.

Two last notes, and then I promise I won't write on this thread again, as I'm here to relax, learn, communcate, not to upset others.

First note. Maybe I have a misconception of one night stands. I see them as two people consensually having sex, with no cheating. So, again, I have no bad judgements of one night stands, nor of casual play. If the people involved enjoy it, it's good.

Second note. One of the deepest people I've talked to about BDSM was (also) a pro. I respected her. One of the most pleasant people I've met was (also) a pro. I enjoyed her company.

There might be a third note, but I'll keep it for a different thread.

Gone.


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Profile   Post #: 18
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