RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited

RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (Full Version)

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luckydog1 -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 10:43:36 AM)
But there are laws about being an asshole on others private property. It s a locational thing. There are laws about depriving others of thier rights. The PA was cut, the guy kept screaming, and refused to sit down and let the next person speak. He was ejected. He physically and verbally resisted. He was placed under arrest. he resisted further and got tazed. The students got to continue with the education they were spending thier time and money on. In this case, properly trained Officers did the right thing. At least according to the law, the actuall law, not the make believe one some people use.

laurell3 -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 10:47:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: bigjohnson The daughter analogy was not the best, considering this was involving a political demonstration where the young man was clearly out of hand. You can argue about this all day long if you like and no one will be happy with what comes at the end of the day. What would you have done if you were giving a speech and someone started acting the way he did? If his actions rise to the status of Crimes, then by all means he should be arrested. So, we're back to my question: Exactly what crime was committed by the asshole? And whom was the complainant? You cannot be resisting an arrest, without, you know, being arrested FOR SOMETHING. Disturbing the peace and similar statutes are a reasonable person standard. That is if a reasonable person under similar circumstances would feel that their peace was disturbed, then it is a crime. They dont necessarily require a complaint, in fact, post OJ many jurisdictions did away with a the requirement for a private signing of complaints. So yes, behaving very badly in public is grounds for an arrest without a private complaint or reporting party.

farglebargle -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 10:53:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: bigjohnson The daughter analogy was not the best, considering this was involving a political demonstration where the young man was clearly out of hand. You can argue about this all day long if you like and no one will be happy with what comes at the end of the day. What would you have done if you were giving a speech and someone started acting the way he did? If his actions rise to the status of Crimes, then by all means he should be arrested. So, we're back to my question: Exactly what crime was committed by the asshole? And whom was the complainant? You cannot be resisting an arrest, without, you know, being arrested FOR SOMETHING. Disturbing the peace and similar statutes are a reasonable person standard. That is if a reasonable person under similar circumstances would feel that their peace was disturbed. They dont necessarily require a complaint, in fact, post OJ many jurisdictions did away with a the requirement for a private signing of complaints. So yes, behaving very badly in public is grounds for an arrest without a private complaint or reporting party. Does the act of "shouting out questions", at an event of this nature, rise to the level of disturbing a "reasonable person"? Well, I don't see any statements except the Police, and from the video, the "Reasonable Person" wasn't having their peace disturbed. Let's ask JOHN KERRY if his appearance was disturbed? YouTube Video Tape starting at 2:34 POLICE [in background]: "Get down!" Senator Kerry: "Hey officers ... could we ... Hey folks ... I think that if everybody just..." POLICE: "Do it now!" Senator Kerry: "... calms down this situation would calm down. [unintelligible] ...I'll answer his question. Unfortunately, he is not available to come up here and swear me in as President." Andrew Meyer: "Why are they arresting me? Did someone do something here? Are they arresting?" Senator Kerry: "Let me just say. because it is a very important question." And further, this statement: http://kerry.senate.gov/cfm/record.cfm?id=283508 “In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of responding when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted." So the "Reasonable Person" standard was clearly not met.

farglebargle -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 10:59:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 But there are laws about being an asshole on others private property. It s a locational thing. There are laws about depriving others of thier rights. The PA was cut, the guy kept screaming, and refused to sit down and let the next person speak. He was ejected. He physically and verbally resisted. He was placed under arrest. he resisted further and got tazed. The students got to continue with the education they were spending thier time and money on. In this case, properly trained Officers did the right thing. At least according to the law, the actuall law, not the make believe one some people use. KERRY is on record as telling the police he would answer the question, quite clearly on the Youtube video. Unless you're in a POLICE STATE, the Police don't get to make the call to eject you. The COMPLAINANT from the speaker's board is the person who tells the Police to remove the trespasser. THEN that COMPLAINANT files charges for trespassing. Since I haven't been shown any statements from any COMPLAINANT, then we'll just have to speculate why the police overstepped their bounds. IIRC, from their statements, they were working overtime details. Perhaps they shouldn't have been working overtime, as their judgment was compromised by fatigue? Piss Poor Training... Piss Poor Supervision == Negligible Discipline. It's the same problem the military has with Discipline.

laurell3 -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 11:00:08 AM)
fargle, I dont know...I was just correcting the misinterpretation that someone has to actually swear out and file a complaint, which used to be the case in many places but isn't always true anymore due to the upgraded victimless prosecution standards post OJ. l

bigjohnson -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 11:37:36 AM)
Fargle...I want to tase you.

popeye1250 -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 11:39:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bigjohnson Fargle...I want to tase you. Johnson, don't do that, he'll use all CAPS on you.

bigjohnson -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 12:04:47 PM)
We don't want him to get really angry and tell me that I am violating his rights by posting on an online message board. I think I just stole his next post. Whoops.

luckydog1 -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 12:13:11 PM)
No, its a diffeRent One that sometimes blathers about suing over this stuff.

Petronius -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 4:12:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bigjohnson Fargle...you are the kind of person that everyone hates to be in a conversation with because you always have to try and make a point even if it is ludicrous. Someone had to call in security otherwise they would never have gone in there to apprehend him. Did you notice how when the officers attempted to escort him out of the hall he tried to stay. They are just doing their job, just like I am sure you do yours every day. I haven't seen any ludicrous point, save for what seems to be fantasy by bigjohnson. In the early videotapes Kerry was heard saying that he wanted to answer the questions. Ergo, where was the disruption? There was none. No disruption, no basis for an arrest. No basis for an arrest, no basis for the cop to use the taser. No basis for tasering, and you have an armed criminal (the cop) who used a weapon on a citizen. That is, I believe, called "assault with a deadly weapon" and can get you double digits in prison. Or can if you are not a cop. bigjohnson, writing "Someone had to call in security otherwise they would never have gone in there to apprehend him" simply seeks to justify police violence. In essence, he claims it never exists. In bigjohnson's declared universe no cop would have tried an arrest without at least being called.

farglebargle -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/27/2007 4:28:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: bigjohnson Fargle...I want to tase you. Johnson, don't do that, he'll use all CAPS on you. I don't use all caps. I use Comic Case. There's a difference.

CollegeConundrum -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/28/2007 4:19:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Mmmmm, sorry, but... no. You are describing security guards, and calling them /police/LEOs. Many campuses have both. Please feel free to provide a link supporting your assertion that FDLE is not the agency overseeing university police in Florida http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/cjst/Publications/AgencyAddresses/State%20Agencies%20Directory.pdf Here's an idea, FIND IT YOURSELF. I live in California, I go to school in California, I know the fucking laws. It's not my problem, if you don't. In California, campus cops aren't fucking cops. [Mod Nte: flame removed]

Alumbrado -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/28/2007 4:56:31 PM)
You mean like this? quote: *Police Department Authority* The University of California Police Department's police officers are sworn peace officers. They derive their peace officer status from Section 830.2 (b) of the California Penal Code. By authority of Section 92600 of the Education Code of the State of California and the Board of the Regents of the University of California, these peace officers are responsible for providing police services to the University of California. They enforce all laws on property owned, operated, or controlled by the Board of Regents and provide the full range of police services. The officers are graduates of California Peace Officers Standards and Training (POST) certified training academies and continually undergo training to maintain their state certification and professional skills. The UCSF Police Department has demonstrated excellence to law enforcement by living up to a body of standards to become accredited by the Commission on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies, Inc. http://www.police.ucsf.edu/documents/1998.pdf [sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif]

CollegeConundrum -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/28/2007 7:42:19 PM)
A 7 year old document for laws that were changed 3-4 years ago? Good job!

Alumbrado -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/29/2007 8:16:40 AM)
Actually, the 2006 revised code says the same thing. Whether you agree or not, campus police are sworn LEOs (under the authority of the BOR), and security is security, just like Florida and elsewhere. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=67101610313+11+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve Keep up the fantastic work.

meatcleaver -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/29/2007 9:13:09 AM)
Without getting into detail about tasers but when was it that it became unacceptable in democratic societies to persistently ask a politician pertinent questions?

CollegeConundrum -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/29/2007 1:11:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Actually, the 2006 revised code says the same thing. Whether you agree or not, campus police are sworn LEOs (under the authority of the BOR), and security is security, just like Florida and elsewhere. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=67101610313+11+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve Keep up the fantastic work. You posted a dead link to backup your "argument"? You're a real champ. Edit: I guess I can't expect you to post a real link because that's not how campus departments are run....

Alumbrado -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/29/2007 3:04:10 PM)
OK, let's see exactly where the law that you claim to know says what you claim it says, that "They're "deputized" by the PD or SD, whoever is responsible for overseeing the campus police." CALIFORNIA CODES PENAL CODE SECTION 830-832.17 quote: 830.2. The following persons are peace officers whose authority extends to any place in the state: ... (b) A member of the University of California Police Department appointed pursuant to Section 92600 of the Education Code, provided that the primary duty of the peace officer shall be the enforcement of the law within the area specified in Section 92600 of the Education Code. (c) A member of the California State University Police Departments appointed pursuant to Section 89560 of the Education Code, provided that the primary duty of the peace officer shall be the enforcement of the law within the area specified in Section 89560 of the Education Code. CALIFORNIA CODES EDUCATION CODE SECTION 89560-89561 quote: 89560. The trustees may appoint one or more persons to constitute a police department for the headquarters and for each campus of the California State University. Persons employed and compensated as members of a California State University police department, when so appointed and duly sworn, are peace officers. However, such peace officers shall not exercise their powers or authority except (a) at the headquarters or upon any campus of the California State University and in an area within one mile of the exterior boundaries of each campus or the headquarters, and in or about other grounds or properties owned, operated, controlled, or administered by the California State University, or by trustees or the state on behalf of the California State University, and (b) as provided in Section 830.2 of the Penal Code. 89561. Every member of a California State University police department shall be supplied with, and authorized to wear, a badge bearing the words "California State University Police." quote: 92600. The Regents of the University of California are authorized and empowered to appoint one or more persons to be members of the University of California police department as such police department is constituted on September 19, 1947, or may thereafter be constituted. Persons employed and compensated as members of said police department, when so appointed and duly sworn, are peace officers; provided, that such officers shall not exercise their powers or authority except (a) upon the campuses of the University of California and an area within one mile of the exterior boundaries of each thereof, (b) in or about other grounds or properties owned, operated, controlled or administered by the Regents of the University of California, and (c) as provided in Section 830.2 of the Penal Code. 92601. Every member of the University of California police department shall be supplied with, and authorized to wear, a badge bearing the words "University of California Police." Follow your own advice, and look it up yourself... California Penal Code 830.2. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html You might learn something...Or not.

CollegeConundrum -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/29/2007 5:58:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You might learn something...Or not. If there is something to learn here, it's not from you.

Alumbrado -> RE: "Don't tase me, bro!" revisited (10/29/2007 8:58:58 PM)
Which is why I didn't hide behind the refusal to provide evidence, as you did... I posted the facts, not my unsupported opinion, so that anyone could see for themselves. It isn't my job to cure the ignorance of others, but making fun of it is somewhat of a hobby. Thanks for the freebie, keep up the fantastic work.[:D]

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