BDSM umbrella... or NOT (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message

rollinonward05 -> BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 7:31:25 AM)

Many think or know that under the BDSM umbrella , if you will,  there are many different lifestyles or ways people choose to live their relationships using aspects of many of these lifestyles.  And yes there are some that have no belief that they are under this umbrella I speak of and I respect their opinions on that point .
So this all being said I have a question for everyone.  This question is not to alienate anyone or any group.. or to get into any bs " My way is the best" kind of thing. My interest, in asking this question , is to see what others believe the lifestyles I will list have in common, what rules, what philosophies?  (Or any lifestyles I have not listed too)
M/s
D/s
Gorean
Taken In Hand

I would also like to say that I respect the views of people living in any or the many more "ways" of living within this so called umbrella. I may not always agree but I attempt to learn and understand. 
Thank you
rollin



Rover -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 7:46:39 AM)

You're asking quite a bit more than I could, or care to, reply at one time.  But a few brief personal observations are...
 
M/s and D/s are control based, without gender specific roles, relevant to the individual, and as you may have noticed in some other threads, impossible to distinguish from one another beyond a generalized "feeling" that they are different (ie: no one can define and distinguish slaves from submissives) which is why I prefer to use the term "power exchange relationships".
 
Gor is based upon a single author, with gender specific roles, and defined by the author (not the individual) including what it means to *be* Gorean (ie: Gor defines the individual rather than the individual defining Gor).
 
I'm not familiar enough with Taken in Hand to offer an informed opinion.  I've heard the term, but never had anyone be able to define it to me in a way that distinguishes it from power exchange relationships.
 
"BDSM" was coined in order to be an umbrella term for Bondage/Discipline, Dominance/Submission (including Master/Slave), and Sadism/Masochism.  Those can be broad terms which in and of themselves include many activities and relationship types.  It's my understanding that Gor denies any relationship to BDSM.
 
John



rollinonward05 -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 7:51:08 AM)

This was a great way to begin answers to this thread. Thank you Sir
rollin

Taken in hand also denies any relationship to BDSM .



writergirl -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 8:02:54 AM)

Taking them a bit out of order:

D/s: Power exchange relationship (whether long or short term). I believe this to be the basis of all the PE relationships and often will lead to them, though not always. It's the initial defining of roles in a relationship or in a scene.

M/s: PE, of course, almost always with the view to long-term. I think the distinction between M/s and D/s is ownership. In M/s, the s relinquishes either all control or most of the control in his/her life (aside from pre-arranged areas, such as children, perhaps, though not always). To me, an M/s relationship isn't defined by labels, it's defined by intent of the people involved. Many people in D/s relationships call their dominant Master or Mistress, but their intent isn't to be owned, but to submit. So labels aren't reliable in defining M/s relationships. For me, it's the intent of the s to give over all/most control (even when, or particularly when, it's uncomfortable or inconvenient or difficult) and intent of the M to be responsible for that control.

Gor: I believe Gor has much in common with M/s (as much as some of them don't like that idea), but as Rover pointed out, it's quite structured and it doesn't really lend itself to "take what you want and discard the rest." It's not particularly malleable. But Gor is attractive to many people because of the absolutes within the structure, as well as the protocols. Some of us protocol whores can't help being attracted to that world. At any rate, to get back to the question at hand, I do believe Gor has much in common with M/s as far as the intent of control.

Taken in Hand: No idea what this is so I have no constructive comments on it.

I actually have a post in my early journal about definitions that touches on the D/s, M/s thing as well.

wg



juliaoceania -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 8:03:21 AM)

Howabout people that do not have a power structure in their relationship and just like to beat people or be beaten? You know... us S&M folks... what part of the "umbrella" do we fall under?

It does not matter to me if I am under the "umbrella" or not mind you, I find the whole entire "umbrella" concept kinda laughable... and laughter is good for the soul.

And if the umbrella shades you from the storm... more power to you.



ResidentSadist -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 8:42:02 AM)

To me, all BDSM lifestyle relationships are different than most vanilla relationships because they are performance based.  There is an exchange taking place and both parties are highly aware that the success of the exchange as define by the terms is equal to the success of the relationship, not just the presence of love.

I have no idea what Taken In hand has in common with other lifestyles.  Its self-proclaimed leaders say they shun the BDSM protocols and labels.  I believe Taken In Hand, is so new, it is still in the self contradicting stage.  As it ages I expect it will workout the kinks and finally be able to describe itself.
http://www.takeninhand.com/



ResidentSadist -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 8:53:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
How about people that do not have a power structure… You know... us S&M folks...

I believe the performance based comment I made includes the S&M aspects of the lifestyle. 



bipolarber -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 9:19:25 AM)

The thing is, rollin, that BDSM is the umberlla term. As such, it has to be open to anything and everything that could be related to it. Some of the sub cultures that do fall under it's definition, are trying to establish themselves as a "breed apart." BDSM has no underlying philosophy. It simply states that it is a catagory of people who do not fall into the definition of mainstream sexuality. So really, BDSM contains straight, GLBT, M/s, D/s, victoirian, adult baby, pony play, bondage, SM, role players, vampires, femme dom, poly, christian D/s, bod mod, tattooing, branding, peircing, fire play, hot wax, fisting, ice, CBT, and on and on and on.... It's very accepting and cosmopolitan, compared with some other systems of belief.

I'm afraid I'm with several of the other posters so far... this "taken in hand" term isn't one that's familliar to me. Are you possibly referring to victorian discipline?

Gor is a bit of a sore subject with me, and I am very critical of it for reasons that seem good to me.  They are a group that sets themselves up as "the one true way." If you go over to their message board, and start reading, you'll find that they are highly judgemental, discriminatory people. They have called, in recent posts,  female domination an "abomination" and male subs to be "pathetic, disgusting, mutations." (to give you an example of the mindset) They are homophobic. They are, at their base, sexist. I consider them a cult, and a dangerous one at that! If you go over to the "BDSM Lifestyles in the News" board, and scroll down, you'll see a recent news item about a Gorean Master who murdered his ex wife. (Sure, there are deaths in BDSM... but there's a slight difference between accidental death, and premeditated murder because your "philosophy" gives you permission.)

(shrug) You asked.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 9:43:35 AM)

BDSM isn't the umbrella at all for me.  I don't even include Ds in bdsm.  For me, the umbrella is "alt lifestyle stuff" specifically under that "kinky stuff" and THEN everything else is under that umbrella, including bdsm.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_794045/mpage_2/key_umbrella/tm.htm#794492
ds vs bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_616573/mpage_1/key_umbrella/tm.htm#616591
ds as bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_592203/mpage_1/key_umbrella/tm.htm#592271
watered down bdsm



breatheasone -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 9:52:08 AM)

from what I have read "taken in hand" is a "domestic discipline" site...with a Christian slant if I'm not mistaken...they definitely deny anything to do with "bdsm" 



Phoenixandnika -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 10:22:49 AM)



Taken in hand, is about exploring the power or control within typically monogamous relationships. Some, use power exchange and kink during sex to keep a relationship alive while others do not . Ultimately taken in hand is about having the courage to live your live without fearing what the guy next door thinks.
 
Edited to add: IF you read their site, truly read the articles they do not say anything about BDSM being "bad" or deny it.

 
Gor, Goreans do not believe they live on a fictional planet, nor are they an occult. Gorean’s believe in natural order and power exchange. They hold personal honor, respect, and civil duty high. Within the gorean community there is less grey area because roles are defined and enforced by the community as a whole. Individuals have unique rituals or customs to define or show the power exchange both privately and publicly. They do not go around murdering, enslaving (nonconsensual), or raping women.
 
Master/slave : The consensual relationship where the dominant in the relationship has ultimate authority over the submissive and relationship. Total power exchange occurs. Individuals have unique rituals or customs to define or show the power exchange both privately and publicly.
 
Dominant/submissive : The consensual relationship were the dominant in the relationship has the authority over the submissive in the relationship. Total power exchange can and does occur. Individuals have unique rituals or customs to define of show the power exchange both privately and publicly.
 
BDSM: Bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism
 
BTW... You forgot a few. Tops, Bottoms, and Old Gaurds that also came to mind.
 
I don’t think it is about what fits under the “BDSM umbrella” I belief it is what label fits your and life choices. I think it is about finding that place that makes you feel whole, that allows you and your partner(s) not to only survive but flourish -- the label in the end shouldn’t matter. Someone will always argue that your label doesn’t fit their definition of who or what you are. Should that really matter?
 
The reality is bad people, rapist, murders, pediphiles, exist in our world in our society. All aspects of it from our households, to our churches, to our schools. Why do people think that they shouldn't exits within groups like this or would any more or less than other places?
 
Blessed Be,
Nika
 



DaddyDeerest -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 10:41:48 AM)

    Hi,  I too have faced what is a reall fact in my life, and my relationships as well...As a Dom, I've beeen brought up to not hit women -no matter what the reason's for...so at 24 when my first grrrlfrien caalled me Daaddy while we we're having sex, and had the nerve to ask me to be rough with her like he was,,.and fuck her like he...I was...it was too much for me to handle, after I had just spent years loathing him for her. I was justt too immature to handle that then, but sometimes even now, I get real twinges of pain myself,, and I deeply have to remind myself why I'm here at all, and for whom this is all for.. I love pleaseing my lovers, and for them, I have developed a true skill in giving pleassure through pain, 'cause for me, if it was all pain...I wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much, and I do truely enjoy being a Daddy, and taking care of my  charges, and making sure they feel safe and sucure, as I beat the living snot outta them...If they ask me real nice first. But, my point is, for me, I cou;ld do without the S in BDSM. But as I'm thinking about this as I'm writing itI'm also, and I do correct as I go, when I can-thatis- but when i get a mental blue-print from actually talking andallowing the sub to be the one that calls all the shots right up until we begin. I then like to blind--fold, to eliminate some unnessisary,and troublesome senses, that just usuall just as often, end up distracting one's charge from the destination at hand.



xoxi -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 10:47:30 AM)

Taken in Hand is D/s for people who don't like being forced to accept "your kink is ok" and don't shudder at the word "vanilla."

In other words it's power exchange without all the freakiness.  I'm a fan  [8D]



Phoenixandnika -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 10:50:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Taken in Hand is D/s for people who don't like being forced to accept "your kink is ok" and don't shudder at the word "vanilla."

In other words it's power exchange without all the freakiness.  I'm a fan  [8D]



I know a couple who follows "Taken in hand" and they are freaky at least in my eyes. ~laughs~
 
blessed be,
Nika



DaddyDeerest -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 10:53:51 AM)


Sorry for the chicken scratchin's....I promise to reread every reply, before I send it out.....



writergirl -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 12:26:05 PM)

~FR~
RE: Taken in Hand

I had a look at their website for a few minutes. Granted, I didn't read the articles, but I read the Overview and the What You Need to Know pages. And there seems to be an awful lot of emphasis on sex. It seems like it's simply a group to rationalize kinky sex in an otherwise vanilla relationship.

I could be wrong, but based on those two pages, that's the interpretation I took away. And I can also see how an earlier poster (I can't recall who, sorry) mentioned that they seem to be in those early stages of organization and somewhat self-contradictory.

At any rate, what I read of them hasn't helped me to form any sort of real idea of what they represent, so I still can't address the OP's original question with regards to TiH.

wg



Daddyskittin -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 1:03:53 PM)

To Me I break it down to something like an outline in which Alternative Lifestyles is the title with BDSM... D/s...M/s... gor... etc are sub-catagories under that.



D/s- Power Exchange in which both give, and recieve control over each other to varying degrees.

M/s- Power Exchange in which one person gives power ranging from partial to complete control to the other.

gor, take in hand, etc- I won't comment on because I've had no actually contact with anyone who live these types of lifestyles even in an extremely loose way, and I abhor the whole idea of doing online research on anything related to any type of alternative lifestyle and feel the only accurate way for me to get a real sense of how they live their lives is to get the information first hand from them and others who have experienced it.




MasterDaveM -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 1:11:21 PM)

I always thought of it like this..

in D/s the sub submits her heart
in M/s she surrenders her soul

no way is better than another... i just think that M/s and D/s have some differences in the level of "submission"

as for "gor"... its cute philosophy and a nice way to live if this were 1800 bc. but in the real world, it is just basically the trekkie form of bdsm... complete with its own language, costumes, scenes and people that hang around flea markets looking for old wagon wheels to prop up in the corner of their living room... usually right next to that very "un gor-like" big screen tv



rollinonward05 -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 1:27:47 PM)

quote:

Gor: I believe Gor has much in common with M/s (as much as some of them don't like that idea),


I agree with this statement . There are many philosophies( or ways) in Gor that are also adopted by a Master/slave relationship. Such as the male being the superior, changing names,  the male owning everything, the heart, soul, mind of the slave, and other ways.
I would say , and as far as I have read in the Taken in Hand website that I find  that Gorean may also have a lot in common with some aspects of that kind of lifestyle too.
 Phoenixandnika wrote :
Edited to add: IF you read their site, truly read the articles they do not say anything about BDSM being "bad" or deny it.

I stand corrected here. Thank you for pointing this out to me . I have been reading the site and found many articles where people are indeed a part of the bdsm umbrella ( for lack of better term:)  ). Here is one of the articles that I found interesting
http://www.takeninhand.com/node/164

Thank you to everyone who has contributed their thoughts , so far, on this topic
rollin






http://www.takeninhand.com/node/164




rollinonward05 -> RE: BDSM umbrella... or NOT (10/28/2007 1:38:10 PM)

quote:

Gor is a bit of a sore subject with me, and I am very critical of it for reasons that seem good to me. They are a group that sets themselves up as "the one true way." If you go over to their message board, and start reading, you'll find that they are highly judgemental, discriminatory people. They have called, in recent posts, female domination an "abomination" and male subs to be "pathetic, disgusting, mutations." (to give you an example of the mindset) They are homophobic. They are, at their base, sexist. I consider them a cult, and a dangerous one at that! If you go over to the "BDSM Lifestyles in the News" board, and scroll down, you'll see a recent news item about a Gorean Master who murdered his ex wife. (Sure, there are deaths in BDSM... but there's a slight difference between accidental death, and premeditated murder because your "philosophy" gives you permission.)


bipolarber,  I have gone over to the Gorean forums and read many threads.  Many of the posters there have been very helpful in aiding me to understand that lifestyle. Like any forum you will have the ones who are judgemental. Please do not stereotype all Goreans for the few who are like this. As far as being judgemental I believe we all can be as you have shown in the above paragraph.
rollin



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
4.492188E-02