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Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 8:43:13 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Greetings.

So that you know I will be pissing some people off, if so it is of course unintended I just know it will happen on a subject such as this.

First things first.

I Understand the Fear and I know that for subs (Especially those with Ex's and Children) this is a subject that brings immediate Terror or Anger and at times emotional regrets and personal situations you wish not to discuss.

I am sorry for your personal situation but this thread is about the Choices one makes, not what to do after you have made them.

This Thread is based off of comments made in an other forum so if you don't follow some of the comments it is because they were pulled from the thread I started in  an other forum off collarchat.

After a few posts on the subject the information about the individuals involved became unobtainable as life does not travel as fast as topics do so the thread of course was hijacked into a new conversation about what I call "Being in the Kink Closet"

Some Background.

I have been open about who I was since I was 19, only for the 3 years from ages of 16 to 19 did I ever hide who I was. However it was in those three years that I did what today I find I am no longer able to do in good concious.

I dated girls while secretly having affairs with others and hiding each of them from each other.

I dates multiple women at the same time who knew about each other but not what I did with each.

I dated older women who were ashamed of the things that we did and hid me from thier spouces or friends

I did Kink porn (VERY Amature) and used it as an excuse to do what I did because even if it wasn't much they were paying me and the money was a way that made it excusable.

And on top of all this I was Young and with a Young Mans mind many things get lost in the sand storms.

My Purpose in explaining this is to show that even if I do not live your exact situation I can relate to the subjects.

The Perverbial Kink Closet is a place that many people feel they HAVE to be. The offer excuses ranging from "You don't understand, if it got out that I did this she would take the kids away!" or "If my Job got wind of this I'd be Fired" or "You have no idea what my private life is like who are you to judge how I do things?"

ALL OF THESE ARE VALID POINTS! and I will not argue them. In your current situation you are in many ways locked to what you are doing.

No what I want to discuss is the point where this happened and discuss why anyone would intentionally put themselves in such an OBVIOUS Misery?



Okay, The Majority of the people I have come across who fall in the Kink Closet in the decade I have been treading these dangered waters fall under the catagory of Married Men or Women who have a Master or Mistress on the side.

I have done this where I was the Master on the side. I remember asking (We'll call her jane) at what point she discovered the lifestyle and she informed me about a year after she married her husband (Also not an uncommon answer) she informed me that she always knew there was something in her she just didn't know what to call it. I asked her if she tried to talk to her husband about it, and she told me some story about how when approaching the story he went off on how all of them are perverts and faggots and so she just tried to let it go. Then and this is one I know has been told SO OFTEN that EVERYONE has heard this. After a few Months she realized that this was more than just a passing interest she saw this as something that she needed!

Again I don't Deny ANYTHING she said as the gods honest truth, you will see my point in a moment. (I Hope)

So she found a Man online who said he would Train her and all she had to do was do whatever he said on the Net. This went on for about a year and a half and then when he ordered her to leave her husband and move to him she refused and he released her from her collar. After a few months she dicsovered that there were these things called Munches and maybe she could meet someone in person. After a few months she started going every week and told her husband that she belonged to a Bunko group and he was glad to have her out of the house. She met a Master and told him that she needed the Physical control of a Master but that she could not be sexual with him because she didn't want to cheat on her Husband just that she wanted to get the things he was not willing to give her from someone who would under stand. Three years go by and she has had 6 different Masters all of which agree to the No Sex only to eventually become frustrated (She was a Knockout) and release her for refusal to have sex. In this Three Year Period things have become even more estranged between the Husband and his wife and they fight all the time and have not had love in 9 months. He accuses her of cheating on him every day and she cries and wonders why he could think such a thing when she has kept her sex only for him.

Okay Enters Steel, A Young cocky Incredably STUPID and Over Eager Twit! I agree to all the same things the other guys did but I am not so easily persuaded away from what I want and eventually after not having sex with her Husband for so long she agrees and we do more in an afternoon than she had done with her Husband in 3 years.

Sometimes I wonder if god takes enjoyment over the things he does to his children.

About a Month into our tryst I take a new Job at a Computer company and my new Boss is a GREAT GUY!!!! Nice and Kind takes me under his wing and shows me all the ropes and puts me first in line for a promotion because he sees I catch on quickly and in a two week period I become his Assistant and am making 3 dollars more per hour. One night he invites me over to have dinner with him and his family and upon entering the door I see my girl in TERROR chopping onions.

I was torn and decided that I had done enough damage and so after that weekend I called things off with her and told him. I lost a friend that evening and someone who in reality was not an evil man. of course I wasn't married to him so who knows.

The point is no matter how bad the marriage was, the look in his eyes were Hurt and the pain was real. He was shattered and even more (I know cause he told me as much) He felt stupid that his wife could carry on for 3 years staying with him and needing all that from someone else.

That day I realized that infidelity is wrong in my world and that I will never make the choice to be a part of that EVER!

I am not judging ANYONE who does this only telling you the judgement of myself.

It just seems to me that at the begginning there was a choice to be made. In the beginning she could have just filed for divorce. Waited till they were seperated and then done what she pleased with who she pleased.

It is this choice that see in all those Kink Closet Cases I have met. The Man who loves his wife but knows she would never understand. Well the choice to engage in that activity was HIS to make and who knows how the wife would handle it, maybe if he introduced her to a Professional maybe she would get to like it and if not is it worth it to have that and lose her or lose that and have her?

For me this is an easy choice, I simply don't get involved with people who can't accept this part of me. However in my current situation with andi, I have a different issue, I Love her! and so if she comes to me and says "I am not comfortable with this and no longer want to do it, then I have a choice to make, lose her and have this, or have her lose this.

I am an Advocate for "this lifestyle is something I AM not something I DO", people like to use that against me on this subject, but I can give up the Spanking and whipping, and Orders, and Protocol, and Lables and what-not and I will still be a Dominant Man. I ALWAYS will be that. it is who I am, and NO relationship that exists with me could know otherwise. I am what I am and that is all I can be, however HOW I carry myself is entirely up to me.

At the point in which you have to make the choice I think that everyone should take a look at the lifes involved and NOT just thier selfish desires and ask themselves is going into the Kink Closet worth the pain and torment it could cause if I am discovered in there.

What are your Views on this?

As Always

Steel

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 8:53:39 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Let me reverse the question. Would it be worth the pain if you came out of the closet. Would you like to take the chance of alienating your wife/husband, um's and family and co workers.

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 9:04:59 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Where I understand what you are asking and I agree that offten times there is just too much at stake to do these things. I have a son and a wife and a family.
 
My Dilema is that I don't think that what we do is wrong or sick or perverted. I offten think the entire planet should be given the book Different Loving in gradeschool and see how different the world is in 3 generations or so.
 
In this situation you have someone who if it is discovered that they are cheating on thier spouse it will be just as bad.
 
This is a LOSE LOSE situation if you ask me and I feel that coming out of the kink closet to your partner and helping them understand who you are is a POSITIVE thing.
 
I know that there are the Bible Thumpers who would make it bad but why let fear run the gambit for you?
 
The case in point is why justify infidelity, being on the run-around, the kink with someone who is NOT who you chose to be with for the rest of your life just so you can have kinky play sessions with someone else?
 
I think being who you are is much better, it may cost you but what you get for what you pay in MY OPINIONS is MUCH more worth it then doing it behind your partners back.
 
As Always
 
Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 9:07:54 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		It's sad that the world does not accept this.

I can't be out to a world that won't accept-they have thier sterotypes-and I just have a life to live.

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 9:44:41 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		What you're describing is straight out of a romance novel.  I'm finding it tough to believe, honestly.  But then, I've had situations that were almost as crazy--more humbling than your story is, but crazy--so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

However, the fact remains that you were in a unique situation.  Don't judge what others do by that experience.  I repeat: don't cast stones at other's infidelity by that yardstick. 

In this case, my best advice is to do what's right by you, for you.  Knock 'em dead, stud.  Or don't.  But don't judge on infidelity in general; only judge on the situations that you're involved in or have greater experience with.  It sounds to me like that poor couple was screwed long before you came along, at least you acted as an agent of change.

I personally choose not to cheat with married wives if I know about it; but I do that because, over time, it becomes obvious that that's a losing game.  For ME, not because of them.  I want long-term, and you won't find it with those women as easily.  I can't judge cheating women and whether they are right or wrong, whether they lost or gained by the event; circumstances vary too greatly to do that.  At least the experiences I have matured me and made me a better partner for the girls I see now.  And this will do the same for you.

Good fortune to you.


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 10:17:38 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I was torn and decided that I had done enough damage and so after that weekend I called things off with her and told him.
 
Huh?
You decided you had done enough damage so proceeded to do more by telling him?
 
As for the rest, well i don't agree with cheating but each to their own and for their own reasons.

_____________________________

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 10:20:55 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		I think in my very limited experience what you describe is quite common (as opposed to the POV of DMFParadox)...my view point coming from reading forum posts and conversations with some friends.

Even here it seems as if what ever your kink is there may be someone with a prejudice against it or how you choose to do it.

I think many people within the context of their lives still strive to fit into "the norm" within what society dictates as well as what the actions of their community members suggest. (Not only in kink, but in their neighborhoods, bowling leagues, bookclubs and the like.)
We all have a desire, if not for acceptance --at least not to be ostracized by our families, friends and colleagues.

In my case, when I decided I wanted to or rather NEEDED to pursue my interests within this community I told my partner.
It seemed like the only right and fair thing to do.

I can empathise with people who experience the pain of being faced with the choice of having elements of a lifestyle that fulfills them OR maintaining their connections with the important relationships in their lives.
Either/or...how heart wrentching that must be... it makes it a little bit easier for me to understand people who try to have both/and by partially denying who they are on both sides of their proverbial fence.

aJ

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 10/29/2007 10:22:57 AM >

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 10:39:02 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

I think in my very limited experience what you describe is quite common (as opposed to the POV of DMFParadox)...my view point coming from reading forum posts and conversations with some friends.



Cheating is common.  Cheating with your bosses' wife on accident, not so common.  Cheating with a woman in a BDSM kink, getting into a full-blown master/sub relationship with her, and then getting hired by the company her husband works for, having your boss turn out to be a good mentor for you, going to their house and discovering that your submissive is your mentor's wife, having the poor woman cook dinner for both of you?  Sorry hun, that's fucking UNIQUE.  That's why it's hard for me to believe.  But hey, the world is a big place.




_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 10:46:41 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		You outed "your girl" to him?

Did you discuss it with her beforehand or was it a complete surprise to her?

I will withhold further comment until that is clarified.

(in reply to DMFParadox)
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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 10:51:08 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		you are absolutely right about THAT...*laughs at self at not understanding your obvious meaning

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 11:00:25 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Looks at batshalom with her claws out.

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 11:01:03 AM   
slimcontroller


Posts: 46
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		Like too many words man ! Who has the time to read all that, get a job that pays you on the output or something.

Ok

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 11:46:10 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		please tone down the font, it makes the overly long story even more ridiculously long and people can't quote you without putting the ridiculously huge font in their posts as well.

I'm in the closet, I'm staying there. I don't cheat, I'm not married.  I am not ashamed of myself and I'm soooooooooo tired of saying this over and over and over again.

What's right for you isn't what's right for everyone else and I agree, I doubt that dimestore romance novel of a story is real.
l

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 11:59:30 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

What you're describing is straight out of a romance novel.  I'm finding it tough to believe, honestly.  But then, I've had situations that were almost as crazy--more humbling than your story is, but crazy--so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

However, the fact remains that you were in a unique situation.  Don't judge what others do by that experience.  I repeat: don't cast stones at other's infidelity by that yardstick. 

In this case, my best advice is to do what's right by you, for you.  Knock 'em dead, stud.  Or don't.  But don't judge on infidelity in general; only judge on the situations that you're involved in or have greater experience with.  It sounds to me like that poor couple was screwed long before you came along, at least you acted as an agent of change.

I personally choose not to cheat with married wives if I know about it; but I do that because, over time, it becomes obvious that that's a losing game.  For ME, not because of them.  I want long-term, and you won't find it with those women as easily.  I can't judge cheating women and whether they are right or wrong, whether they lost or gained by the event; circumstances vary too greatly to do that.  At least the experiences I have matured me and made me a better partner for the girls I see now.  And this will do the same for you.

Good fortune to you.



Thank you for the whole responce but the part in general is the part that struck the chord for me as being something I try not to do.
 
I try to accept what everyone does as kink and try not to judge anyone for what thier personal kink is. I Personally think that infidelity is wrong, I often wonder what kind of person is so afraid to be themselves to thier mate that they have to cheat to do it.
 
I have to admit that I should not throw stones when my own home has som many windows and I thank you for pointing that out.
 
And romance novel sounding or not that event fucked me up when it came to the women I met for nearly a year.
 
Again Thank you for your words.
 
As Always
 
Steel

_____________________________

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 12:05:09 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I was torn and decided that I had done enough damage and so after that weekend I called things off with her and told him.
 
Huh?
You decided you had done enough damage so proceeded to do more by telling him?
 
As for the rest, well i don't agree with cheating but each to their own and for their own reasons.


Yes Perhaps, I was hasty in my decision to tell him what was going on, but I had two choices and I chose one. The road less traveled is a hard one to walk and I lost both of them, her as a girl and him as a friend so maybe it was the wrong decision for THEM, but for me it has changed the way I look at the things that we do and so for me it was the best thing I could have done.
 
Wether I am responsible for a divorce I don't know, I know that no matter what happened if she were caught it still would have happened. I just chose to be the catalyst.
 
Wrong or right it's what I did and won't ever have to make that decision again as I chose for myself not to get involved in things like that again.
 
As Always

Steel
 

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 12:11:56 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

You outed "your girl" to him?

Did you discuss it with her beforehand or was it a complete surprise to her?

I will withhold further comment until that is clarified.


I told her that I felt that I had to,  after I released her and she didn't object she just kept saying she was sorry. I will say this again it may have not been the best decision but it is the one I made and well it has kept me on what I consider to be the straight and narrow (For Me) since.
 
I also trasfered to a different department in the comapany at a different location.
 
I ran and I hid I felt bad about the whole situation and it was something I did a long time ago.
 
I am sure there are many people who will disagree with the decision I made but I tell you now I would make it again as it was what seemed like the right thing to do at the time.
 
As Always
 
Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 2:47:47 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I also trasfered to a different department in the comapany at a different location.
 



I see.

She, obviously, didn't have such luxury. A long time ago it may have been, and you are correct that many will not agree with you. I am one of them. You didn't consider the repercussions for this person you were responsible for, this person you released as soon it became apparent that her husband was your boss. The fire got hot for you, and she's the one who got burned.

We can argue that she was married. Sure we can. But you knew it. You both played it, and so I refuse to lay this one at her feet. There are dangers of playing when married but one would not expect one's dominant to be the one to do the damage. You tossed her aside when it got too heavy for you, and not only that, you ratted her out. You could have simply let it rest, let her go, and kept your mouth shut. As her leader, as her guide, this is unforgivable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Sometimes I wonder if god takes enjoyment over the things he does to his children.


And you thought it might feel good to be god. Good for you. I hope you enjoyed it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

The point is no matter how bad the marriage was, the look in his eyes were Hurt and the pain was real. He was shattered and even more (I know cause he told me as much) He felt stupid that his wife could carry on for 3 years staying with him and needing all that from someone else.


And what about the girl? Eh? You don't seem sorry at all about what happened to her. In fact, you seem to lay most of the responsiblity at her feet, except when you tell the part about her being frigid with other Masters but not with big bad sexy you. I hope you tell this story to your prospective subs. Seems like important information.

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 3:03:01 PM   
cautiousiasub


Posts: 199
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I also trasfered to a different department in the comapany at a different location.



So, in essence, this affected your job, either because you chose to transfer or because it was pushed on you. Either way, this is one of the reasons I am "in the closet" (and I really hate that phrase). I do have UMs, I am not married, and I don't cheat. My only relationship is with my Master. I'm not open about my lifestyle to my family, my vanilla friends, or my employer or coworkers. My family wouldn't understand. I don't feel it would be appropriate to discuss my lifestyle choices at work. Of course, I've never been one to discuss my sex life or sexual preferences, so that isn't a big change from before I found the lifestyle. As much as I would love to be able to be more open and honest, real life just doesn't work that way for me. If you are open and it works for you, all the better.

_____________________________

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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 3:40:21 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		batshalom,

I am only writing this because I am sure you won't care but someone else will.

You put a LOT into what I was thinking and what I did for someone who knows nothing more of me than what you read on this thread, but you made you mind up about me before I even posted my reply to your question.

This WAS a long time ago and for some reason you still wish to string me up to some cross it would seem you bear as you took this story rather personally.

I have made mistakes WE ALL HAVE. I can at least admit them and try to learn from them. That was NOT the point of this post but it is what you have desided it needed to be so fine. I was a Horny Kid and I got involved with a Married woman and fate put me in the situation I got into. I had to make a decision and I did what I thought was best. As wrong as you think it was for me to do what I did you seem to not care about anyone else in this situation. I cared about ALL of them and so I did what I thought I had to. And yes I was only 17 and VERY Imature I did what I THOUGHT was the only way to make it right.

I am sorry you don't agree. But it has been nearly 10 years since then and I have maintained my stance on being with married women is not for me. Perhaps this is not what you would have done but I have my own torches to carry as it would seem you have yours.

As Always

Steel

_____________________________

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
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RE: Of Self Bondage and The Kink Closet - 10/29/2007 4:10:02 PM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		You bet I've got torches to carry - thousands of 'em. But I find your moral high road to be a bit of lowland quagmire.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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