Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (Full Version)

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hermione83 -> Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (10/31/2007 10:36:51 PM)

That question may seem strange to those of you who automatically associate the terms, but I would love some answers anyway. =) Talk to me like I'm 2 for this one, please? Also, do any of you feel like you aren't very much of a servant, but do feel you are quite submissive? Thanks in advance.



Thorysus -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (10/31/2007 11:21:00 PM)

I would imagine because when  you submit to his dominate pleasures, he shows his gratitude (or rewards you) with pleasures of your own. By pleasing him to recieve your rewards you are submitting to his dominace.

I also dont think submissive is a servent, A slave perhaps, but not a submissive. you can submit in ways that arnt nessarily chores and such. Unless by the term servent you arent reffering to household chores then i would say maybe you want to stretch the boundries of your submissivness or maybe you like the role of the rebelious submissive. 



servantheart -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (10/31/2007 11:46:23 PM)

From Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:
 
     servant- one that serves others; especially : one that performs duties about the person or home of a master or personal employer
 
     slave-1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another 2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence
 
     submit-transitive verb1 a: to yield to governance or authority   intransitive verb1 a: to yield oneself to the authority or will of another: surrender   2: to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another
 
I think it is because the definitions are so intertwined with each other. 
 
 



hermione83 -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (10/31/2007 11:47:24 PM)

I guess what I mean is what makes a submissive, a submissive a desire to please/serve? Is one a submissive if they have one of those other traits usually associated (or several) but not that one, or is it key? e.g. they want to be owned property of another, they are obedient, they like being overpowered, they are the passive partner to an active one, etc? Are there not many who identify as a sub/slave who fear or do not enjoy serving or giving out of their own power of will? If they like to be commanded / taken / used / controlled. Or is that something else? Thanks. :)



tannedaussie -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 12:00:17 AM)

Ok I might be strange here but I cant work out exactly you are asking, it doesnt make a lot of sense. What exactly are you asking?



BitaTruble -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 12:01:40 AM)

~FR~

You don't have to be a servant, like to serve or serve at all to still be very submissive.  Being submissive is a personality trait, serving is an action. There is no big book of rules which says you have to have one to have the other. (There's also the whole role playing a submissive without actually being submissive thing, but that's another subject.)

There are going to be any number of people who 'think' that if you're a submissive you are, by default, a servant, but that's their own 'wish', not a reality. No harm to look for someone who is a submissive and willing to be a servant as well.. and no harm to be a submissive who is not willing to be a servant. You get to do things your own way and I'd only suggest that you find a compatible partner who thinks your way is cool because it's their way, too.

Celeste




mya75 -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 12:13:24 AM)

Hmm ...I am a submissive I love the feeling of being overpowered I love to give up my will submit to the will of another..however that doesnt make me a servant....I love to serve but what makes me a servant is the things I do.....kneeling,cooking,domestic things,sexual things etc etc..combining the two makes an easier lifestyle but many submissives are not always servants...I guess the best way for me to explain it would be for me to take it out of the D's concept ....I am a very attentive and caring person by nature I love to make others feel better and this requires serving in some aspect....my employment is also of a serving nature.....I hope that helps and doesnt confuse you....



MaamJay -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 1:10:54 AM)

For Me, the answer to the question in the subject line is: They don't HAVE to be equated but they often are.

Sure you can be submissive and not be a servant ... you might even manage to be submissive and not be particularly pleasing (but then how desirable a submissive you are is up for debate!) ... essentially, submission is about surrendering to the will of another. If the Dominant only requires your submission/surrender in specific arenas eg the bedroom and the Dungeon/playroom, then that D/s relationship may have nothing to do with chores or being pleasing other than sexually pleasing and fun to play with. It could be possible to be as lazy as sin out of the bedroom and bratty on a daily basis!

However, Dominants who are looking to live a lifestyle of D/s, generally want more surrender from their subs ... and agree likewise to shoulder more of the burden of responsibility and decision-making. The trade-off for this is usually that the sub operates physically to make the Dominant's everyday life easier ... ie the sub serves by taking on household chores and has a pleasing demeanour to make them fun to have around 24/7. How much of the chores they do is open for negotiation in the early stages of the relationship, a sub not liking what their Dominant expects has the power of veto by leaving the relationship if unable to arrive at an agreeable arrangement. Also many subs find a great deal of pleasure in serving, chores are tangible ways in which they can show their care, adoration of and obedience to their Dominant. And for Me, if a sub is not pleasing to Me ... and is not obviously enjoying serving Me, then I really don't feel at ease with them or with receiving their service, so I really wouldn't want them around, especially not 24/7.

Hope that helps!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]



wisteriaV -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 4:58:14 AM)

I enjoy doing things for Master for the heck of it. It may be as simple as anticipating his desire for a cup of tea or what not. It may be preparing his favorite meal and knowing it is going to make him smile when I serve it to him. It does not matter if he "rewards" me or not as ,long as  he is happy. Now on the other hand, I have to wash dishes, do the laundry and scrub the toilet ect. I dont enjoy scrubbing the toilet or the tub, but they are necessary chores that get done whether I am a sub/slave/Master or not...just like paying your bills is necessary..and trust me there are times when I wish they did not have to get paid espcially during the cold winters up here, but we want to stay warm so we pay the heating bill. Ohh and the sex and play isnt too bad either.[:D]



Dnomyar -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 5:18:04 AM)

If you are submissive then you are serving someones needs for a submissive. If you are a Dom/Domme you are serving a submissive needs by being so. So either way you are serving.



BeingChewsie -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 5:34:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermione83

That question may seem strange to those of you who automatically associate the terms, but I would love some answers anyway. =) Talk to me like I'm 2 for this one, please? Also, do any of you feel like you aren't very much of a servant, but do feel you are quite submissive? Thanks in advance.


I'm not service oriented at all. I'm extremely submissive to very dominant men though. I do provide service for R because that is a position he puts me in because he owns me. I like to please him, I want to be kept, I like my life..I can connect those dots really easy so I do please him/serve him but have no natutral inclination to serve.



TheChauvinist -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 5:36:54 AM)

quote:

Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave?
Because dominants make very poor servants.



Rover -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 5:37:01 AM)

By way of contrast, I expect my girl to serve me (in whatever capacity I desire of her) but I have no desire for her to be my servant (ie: to wait on me hand and foot).  It's just a personal preference and not relevant to any other relationship other than my own.
 
John



Sabella -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 5:58:09 AM)

I wait on him hand & foot, but it's part of our dynamics that we've developed over years together. The level that I serve wasn't requested but just developed naturally, mostly due to my need to feel that interaction with him. We don't "scene" per se near as much as I would like but the little daily interactions are often enough to satisfy that need.

I'm a naturally helpful person, and have always enjoyed assisting others but I never really associated that with being a submissive trait. Am I a maid for others? absolutely not. Will I help clean up after someone else cooks dinner? absolutely! but that's just common courtesy IMHO.



Celeste43 -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 6:37:31 AM)

Not all submissives are people pleasers. Not all submissives are into service. Not all submissives are into obedience. Some are into any one or more. But there are other motivations as well.

For us, what drives the dynamic is emotional transparency, the overwhelming need to be known fully and accepted fully. I'm not compatible with someone who isn't interested in that, even if they're good at giving orders and demanding service. Those types, I just said 'next' to.



RCdc -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 7:07:48 AM)

It's one of those myths that circulate, so I wouldn't be too concerned.
 
Submission does not equal service and visa versa.  They are two completely different entities.
Someone stated that dominants make poor 'servants', which is obviously another myth.  Dominants serve in the most unique and beautiful of ways in many areas of life.  Some protect, some cook, some even - wait for it - dominate!  Which in itself is a service - both to themselves and to the one(s) they dominate.
 
I am submissive to Darcy, and I serve him.  But I never confuse the two.
 
Peace
the.dark.



JDcraks -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 7:23:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark


 
Someone stated that dominants make poor 'servants', which is obviously another myth.  Dominants serve in the most unique and beautiful of ways in many areas of life.  Some protect, some cook, some even - wait for it - dominate!  Which in itself is a service - both to themselves and to the one(s) they dominate.
 

Somehow I get the feeling you would like to turn  all of us into switches.

(Not that there is anything wrong with that...but its just not my thing.)
 
JD



meticulousgirl -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 7:30:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mya75

Hmm ...I am a submissive I love the feeling of being overpowered I love to give up my will submit to the will of another..however that doesnt make me a servant....I love to serve but what makes me a servant is the things I do.....kneeling,cooking,domestic things,sexual things etc etc..combining the two makes an easier lifestyle but many submissives are not always servants...I guess the best way for me to explain it would be for me to take it out of the D's concept ....I am a very attentive and caring person by nature I love to make others feel better and this requires serving in some aspect....my employment is also of a serving nature.....I hope that helps and doesnt confuse you....


I couldn't have said it better myself so I'm sticking with Mya's words.

i serve because i enjoy doing things for other people, at work, in my home, and in my Owners home, i dont do it for my own gratification, or for the attention, i do it because i have a need to please others, to make other's lives easier and more fulfilling.   That need has always been there but for me it's used in more than just the D's context.

~meticulous~



CreativeDominant -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 7:39:36 AM)

I know several submissives who aren't service-oriented at all.  My first submissive was not service-oriented and had made things such as "forced housework" and "serving as a maid" part of her hard limits list.  Did that keep her from being desirable as a submissive?  No, it did not.  She did end up serving more than she thought she would because she discovered...as many have noted on here...that pleasing me satisfied a portion of her submissive self.  So she did things such as not only cook dinner but serve it, cleaning of my apartment while I was at work, helping me with billing during my secretary's vacation time, etc..  She was great at cold-calling patients as this was what she did in her job as a front desk person at a dental office.  These ways of serving me and making my life easier were done without command and so...in my mind...meant just a bit more than if I had always had to command her to "do this and do that".  While I enjoy giving commands and do believe that sometimes submission is not going to be about what you enjoy but about surrendering your will...even to something you dislike but which is not a hard limit...I have found that for me, in my dynamics, a little understanding and patience of both sides of the whip in this area helps a whole hell of a lot.



RCdc -> RE: Why is serving / being pleasing equated with being a submissive/slave? (11/1/2007 7:44:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JDcraks

Somehow I get the feeling you would like to turn  all of us into switches.

(Not that there is anything wrong with that...but its just not my thing.)
 
JD


Then, you would be wrong.
 
the.dark.



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