RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission?

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 3:20:24 PM

MystressDream

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So... goodgirl.... in YOUR opinion... if my slave is a financial planner and very successful in his position, I should not allow his expertise and advice to enter into financial decisions of our household? I'm sorry, but I think that is almost funny. We are all experts in different areas. If I choose to use a slaves knowledge and expertise for the benefit of the household, then I will do so. If I had a mechanic as a slave, he damn well would fix my car. If I had a computer tech, he would surely be responsible for any computer problems that would come up.

I find it amusing that you consider this being in a vanilla relationship. But... each to their own... I just won't refuse to use what resources a slave brings to the relationship.

D/s and M/s are who and what we are. No matter where we are, or what we are doing, those undertones are always in place. They remain as undertones in the vanilla world, and are pronounced in our BDSM world and our private world. BDSM are activities some of us enjoy. I, for one, don't really care to bring sex into the BDSM very often. Occasionally, yes... but, not often. To me, they are two different things. The majority of Female Dominants that I know don't engage in sex with their slave at all. Not part of their dynamic. It seems to be different with the Male Doms.

Maybe you just don't understand the Mistress/slave dynamics. It can be a bit confusing.

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 4:06:26 PM

slavekal

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Joined: 7/20/2004
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That sounds like a huge Catch-22. Seems to me somebody is not really into this lifestyle, but they want to try to reap a few of the benefits. I would not fall into that trap. If you want to have a slave, the price is you must dominate. Nothing is free.

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 4:11:34 PM

bipolarber

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To the OP: I don't know if it makes you an Uber Sub or not... but I do know that I would be packed and out of there so fast....

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/3/2007 4:51:23 PM

wintersbreath

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

So, it seems like common sense that a "good submissive" does not pester their Dominant to fulfill their fetishes.

A "good submissive" acts in ways that please his or her Dominant..

So if your Dominant is in fact Vanilla, and is pleased when you act as an equal partner, make decisions for them, take the initiative in physical romance, etc.... and you set aside everything that you long for to do this... Does that make you an uber-sub?

If not, what does it make you, and when do you cross the line between "good submissive" and Other?

I am extremely confused about what you are stating here, and by what you are asking. My confusion is stemming from your comment about submissives who ‘act as an equal partner, make decisions within the relationship, take the initiative in matters of romance” . Why would you think that by doing these normal, everyday things; it would make a person NOT submissive?

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/5/2007 6:15:29 AM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wintersbreath

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

If not, what does it make you, and when do you cross the line between "good submissive" and Other?

I am extremely confused about what you are stating here, and by what you are asking. My confusion is stemming from your comment about submissives who ‘act as an equal partner, make decisions within the relationship, take the initiative in matters of romance” . Why would you think that by doing these normal, everyday things; it would make a person NOT submissive?

Okay, a couple people said they don't get it, so let me see if i can elaborate a little.

My question stems from a reaction i see a lot in the FemDom arena, and my own experiences. The reaction is "if you're going to call yourself a submissive, it means do what I want you to- not that you get your bondage/humiliation/pain fetishes satisfied"

What this means is that submissive men, for example, might come into the lifestyle with the fantasy of doing all the housework in a sissy maid's uniform, with strict punishments when he fails to do a job up to his Owner's satisfaction.

The reaction is, that if you're actually submissive, you should clean because She wants you to, and if the dressing up is impractical because She has people around, you don't dress up. And if She thinks it's too much work to discipline you, then you should do the do the work correctly every time because you want to please her, not because your discipline fantasy is involved.

But, i wonder if there's a tipping point at which this kind of situation stops being D/s, and starts being something else.

If you are a submissive, and want to be under someone else's control... but they want you to make all the decisions... where exactly is the control? If being submissive means that you (the submissive) decide where you're going on the weekend, what new car to buy, what drinks to have with dinner, whether to save for the UM's college fund or spend the money on imported pastries and let the damned kids join the military... Isn't your partner submitting to your will? BUT, if their will is to not have to be bothered with decisions and/or bear responsibility for bad decisions, you're still kinda submitting to them?

In a way, that's actually a separate issue, but i don't always think linearly.

But kinda more on my original point. If you go to the extreme of the "being submissive doesn't mean getting your fetishes fulfilled"... what if pleasing your partner means giving up all the sexual trappings usually associated with submission? Meaning, no bondage, no pain, no subjugation, no being "used"... If this is what makes your partner happiest, then doing this is submission. Denying your fetishes is a huge sacrifice to make for them. However, since submission is so often linked to all these things... you're essentially distilling submission to ONLY sacrifice. Particularly if you also remove any active dominance by your partner- telling you what to do, instilling discipline, etc.

i'm not sure that it's exactly a catch-22, so much as it is a potential for disconnect between the different things that submission is thought to entail, and a question of where submission ends up when divorced from everything else in BDSM- the Bondage, Masochism, and even the Dominance. Does it become the purest form of submission, or something else?

i'm not telling you, i'm asking you...

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/5/2007 7:44:14 AM

MystressDream

Posts: 345
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From: Colorado
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Wow... well, let me see.... If a "Dominant" makes NONE of the decisions... and the "submissive" is in control of everything and is making all the decisions.... and If the "Dominant" doesn't engage in any BDSM or D/s activities... and the "submissive" doesn't get any discipline or guideance or get any of their fetish or D/s needs met.... what do you have??

You have a D/s relationship on the rocks. It has resorted to vanilla if all of those factors are true.

So, what's the question? Are you submissive if you stay in a vanilla relationship and get none of your needs met? No. I don't think so. I think you are making the choice to give up D/s and BDSM for a vanilla relationship.

As always.... Just MY opinion.

< Message edited by MystressDream -- 11/5/2007 7:46:16 AM >

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/5/2007 1:37:54 PM

Mercnbeth

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this slave submitted in all of her previous "vanilla" relationships...
the intimate ones who wanted this slave to "act" like the relationship was equal and suggested therapy as an answer to her masochistic fetishes did not last very long, as THEY were not fulfilled by her "performance".

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/5/2007 3:25:46 PM

deziray

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Hello petdave

I am basing my answers on the second post you made which expanded on the first one.

When I moved in with J two years ago, he made it clear that ALL household issues ( Cleaning, buying necessisties, paying bills from the account, saving for vacations, etc, etc ) would fall into my lap. I was expected to take care of all those things. In addition to that, it was my responsibility to find out what kind of food he liked; what kind of starch he liked on his clothes ( whether he did or not ), where he liked vacationing at; etc. In the early months, I asked him; but once I learned his habits, I stopped. Now, I just do what is expected of me without him having to tell me to do it or how to do it. ( Quite honestly, after two years, if he still has to tell me what he likes or dislikes; it would be obvious that our relationship was not working )

I am not controlling this relationship; he is, by allowing me the priveledge of doing these tasks so that his life can be a bit easier and more hassle free. I am an intelligent person; he does not need to micromanage me or check on every detail that is left in my care. He simply trusts me to do what is needed; if I mess up , then we sit down to find out why; and fix the issue.

desiree

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/5/2007 5:21:38 PM

Celeste43

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Joined: 2/4/2006
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He likes it when I feel strong enough to assert myself with him. He loves it when I initiate sex. And for him, me being a good submissive includes asking plainly when I want a spanking, to be tied up etc. If done at the appropriate time obviously.

And I am supposed to make some decisions for him, my standing rules include interrupting him to make sure he stops work to eat and to drink because he'll work himself into the ground if left to himself.

But our relationship is in many ways like that of a CEO and an executive assistant. A good executive assistant is not passive, they take the initiative to arrange things so that the work is streamlined for the CEO. They set up meetings and schedule his day without constantly asking if it's okay if he sees marketing at 10:00 and meets with the outside auditor at 3:00. If the CEO gets his haircut every six weeks, and it's almost six weeks then the exec asst calls his barber and tells him 11:30 tomorrow so he can then go out of town for three weeks without having to find a strange barber. They best serve their boss by doing things without micromanagement.

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/6/2007 12:21:12 PM

charlotte12

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Joined: 5/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Human brain is not a logic computer. Do I want my Master to be happy and do what he wants, absolutely. If he wants an equal vanilla relationship and orders it on me, no my needs will not get met.

I always think of a power exchange relationship to having two distinct aspects that more often then not intertwine but are still somewhat separate. The first is my submissive personality in wanting to make my significant other happy and burden free, to put his needs and desires ahead of mine. I do this with most friends and family in appropriate levels no matter what. The other part of me though is about wanting to be lead, controlled and just fucking dominated.

In your example the command of to please me we will be a vanilla couple completely lacks the domination part of the equation. In terms of going from the super supportive other to I need, want and crave to do whatever you want when you want level it takes the control, leadership and domination aspect to get me on that level.

Very well put toservez. It fades from being a D/s relationship when the "D" dissapears from it. If i am ordered to make all the decisions what would happen if i decided not to make a decision? It is an interesting question though and if i wasn't so tired and hungry i might respond with a less black and white answer. When taken to the extreme it's easy to say "of course the submissive needs her needs of being Dominated met as well." But there can be subtleties in a relationship where this issue is harder to resolve. Perhaps i will return after grabbing a bite to eat.

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RE: Being "normal" as an act of submission? - 11/6/2007 3:54:32 PM

gcarlos