Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post

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Treasure3 -> Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 10:26:08 AM)
I'm not really sure where to put this post. I'm asking for support, experiences, suggestions. I know this is something I am going to have to figure out for myself, but I'm not one to make hasty decisions and I like to have as many points of view as possible so that I can make the best decision for myself and so that I can approach my partner with some ideas that could possibly help us work through the issues. The situation is this... a year and a half ago, I was contacted by my Dom. He said he was ready to give his all to a relationship. I asked all the "right" questions and gathered enough information - I thought - over the following months to be able to say he fit well with what I was seeking. Little by little, we became comfortable with each other, as it should be, but gradually I started to realize he has tons of baggage. Unfortunately, by the time I realized just what I am up against, I was already in love with him. I feel betrayed. He isn't nearly ready to give all as he said he was. He gives a little and takes it back... gives a little and takes it back. In the past six months, we have made a little progress, but it has been a heart wrenching road for me. I don't know how to deal with the baggage and hurts he has. I've been fortunate that I have never before had that sort of drama and pain in my relationships, and I don't know what to do or say to help him, so I offer him my ear and am there for him when he needs me. It's all I know how to do. He has to decide he wants to move past his issues and slay his demons, I get that. I understand I can't make him want to or push him to take the first steps, or do it for him. How though do I get him to understand not only my frustration and pain but that I am scared. He fits the cliches, the adages, the stereotypical image of a man playing the string along game, a player. The thing is, he looks me in the eye and promises me he isn't AND I BELIEVE HIM. As frustrated as I get, I don't feel in my heart that he is playing me. But, I'm coming to the point where I am hurting more than I am happy in the relationship. I know what I want and need in life. I want it to be with him. But... and maybe I am a truly horrid person for saying this... but I don't want to wait and wait and wait, hoping he will finally get to the point where he is ready for what he says he wants. At the same time, I know relationships take work and compromise and patience from both partners, and I have seen him trying. I'm trying to be grateful that he IS making some effort, but the little bit of effort isn't enough to hang on to anymore. Does that make sense? In months past, it was. Now, it feels like too little. How much effort is enough to hold on for? How much of how I am feeling do I share with him? I don't want to add to his problems, but I want to give him the chance to step up and do what he needs to in order for me to be able to stay in the relationship. I don't know if I am explaining that right or not, but I hope what I mean comes through. Any support or encouragement would be most appreciated. I'm in a very loney place right now.

LonDom61 -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 10:50:46 AM)
Hi treasue Well, long as it was, of course your post doesn't include the specifics of his baggage--and I'm not really asking for details. But any advice'll naturally be pretty general. I can understand that you're invested emotionally. I can also understand the "not wanting to wait & wait & wait." Throwing good time after bad type of thing. Certainly there's no quick fix or easy solution. I also get that you don't have the experience with crap (sorta lucky for you) that'd put you in a better position to offer help from experience. Like kids today who are protected from all hazards...& build up no resistance & hence are more vulnerable than those who were less protected. Listening is good. Depending on his issues, just having an ear to listen to and a breast to lay his head on may help some. Based on your status dynamic, how much advice & input can you offer him? Or suggestion of other things that I'll list below and others may add? Depending on the specific issue, might professional help...uh...help? If counselling might apply, look locally for whatever resources are available. If there's no obvious referral agency for such counselling, maybe contact a hospital and see if they have someone who can refer you. If it's kink-specific, though, outside resources aint gonna cut it. You say he's got all the signs of a player...but he says, & you believe, that he's not "playing" now. What does that mean, exactly? Is it fidelity issues? Playing around behind your back? Or a history of doing that to past partners? You say "your Dom", so I'm guessing you're D/s rather than M/s...which is perhaps good for you at least. You're not tied under him to the degree you would be. (That was badly worded, but I'm going for content & speed here.) Depending on your original negotiation, are you both expected to be monogamous? What about bringing in a play partner? If he's driven to need more than one partner--& you can handle it (or it's already in the deal)...well, perhaps try that. Better it happen with you than without you. Also, not sure of your past experience. You might find you like it. Or maybe I'm just misinterpreting your use of "player". If nothing else...I'll just say you've got us out here so you, too, have a listening & sounding board. That's all I've got for now. Good luck. He's lucky to have someone who's proactive in seeking solutions. Sounds like he's, uh...not.

batshalom -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 10:57:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Treasure3 But, I'm coming to the point where I am hurting more than I am happy in the relationship. That says it all. You cannot make anyone do anything. You cannot make him heal. In fact, you are probably enabling him by remaining. If the relationship is dragging you down with it I wish you well in trying to remain afloat. It doesn't sound like a healthy situation.

Treasure3 -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 10:58:48 AM)
Thanks LonDom. By player I mean someone who is playing a game, stringing someone along just to have someone when they are really not planning to ever commit to them. Right now, neither of us is looking for or playing (as in BDSM) with anyone else. Professional help has been mentioned by him a couple of times, but he isn't really keen on that idea. He has been depressed lately, and I think that is what prompted him to even think about seeing a professional.

Treasure3 -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 11:06:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: batshalom quote: ORIGINAL: Treasure3 But, I'm coming to the point where I am hurting more than I am happy in the relationship. That says it all. You cannot make anyone do anything. You cannot make him heal. In fact, you are probably enabling him by remaining. If the relationship is dragging you down with it I wish you well in trying to remain afloat. It doesn't sound like a healthy situation. I hadn't considered that before. I don't want to add to his hurt. I keep telling myself I'm strong, that I can hang in there, show him I'm not like his past partners, prove I won't do the same things they did that he is so afraid of. The thing is, it's wearing me down. I feel like I have been fighting for this relationship for months now and I'm tired. All the pretty words and promises he makes about finding a way through this are nice, but I want to see measurable action to back them up!

toservez -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 11:22:17 AM)
I do not want to be flippant or make something complex look too simple but it is my opinion people are either actively working on the problem and moving forward or the problem is not going to go away. So to me the question I would ask if I was in your shoes would be is he progressing at all and is consciously aware of the problems or is this a case of both of you hoping time and wishful thinking will heal it. You have the right to have a complete relationship. That does not mean fairytale perfection but certainly, and you can only answer this, have your needs and many of your desires and wants met. If this person is not doing that and you think it might not change then you have an answer. I am not saying leave the man, but saying if you do not see how it will get better by his, your and both of your efforts to change things then there is a decision to be made. It is the really crappy part of relationships where you can love and still be unhappy at the same time. I am sorry for your situation and hope it works out for the best. Lin

LonDom61 -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 11:23:45 AM)
Well, since I totally misinterpeted "player"... I'm gonna have to retrench (and waffle). "Depressed"? As in clinically? Way less stigma than in the past. Some god-awful percentage of the population has it (or so some drug company commercial probably told me). Doc? Drugs? Probably not that simple. Bat, as usual, spotted a key piece that I musta glazed over (uh...long post). So here changes horses in mid stream is my waffle. Yes, you're invested. No, you don't wanna run out on him when he needs you. But does he have the right to make both of you miserable? When, at least by your account, he was dishonest from square one about the issues (their magnitude, his being willing to try sincerely to deal with them)? You're staying committed to him cuz you're invested...but he's not committed to you? (And this manifests how? Physical or emotional distance? Moody silences? He doesn't want to "move forward"...like get married? Whatever the yardstick, is it a fair one? There I go...back on the first horse again for a bit.) But if you judge the yardstick to be a fair one... Well, "Don't make someone a priority when to them you're an option" or however it goes. "Love" makes it hard to walk away. But love is just chemical reactions in the brain. If his brain chemicals are keeping him screwed up...and yours are keeping you with him... I dunno, someone's gotta get some meds. Or do some mushrooms or something for a different perspective. I've been up a really, really long time. Probably shouldn't be posting. But I saw hurt and a fresh thread. Had some input. Saw other replies (including yours). Had more input. Now I'm gonna go have...a nap. Good luck. Be strong. But be strong for yourself first. (and what the heck does THAT even mean?) G'night.

angelikaJ -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 11:34:48 AM)
Re: the possibility of him "playing you"...(with your definition)...he may be 'playing ' you and not even realise it. It is likely that he wishes he could move past his demons and just isn't ready to. That is not your fault...it isn't because you weren't enough...you already know this but I am reminding you because it is always helpful to me when someone does the same for me. Sometimes people just aren't ready. You might consider the option of trying to find a kink friendly therapist for you. It feels awful to be so lonely. Offering my support ... jenn

subdarling -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 11:45:27 AM)
hello treasure~ i've been where you are... if i may point something out? the common denominator in all your Dom's "baggage"... is him if you really feel you must save him from himself, you'd best get used to being lonely

lateralist1 -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 12:33:45 PM)
All I can tell you is that in my experience one person no matter how committed and how strong can't really solve another's problems whatever they are. Most peole have issues that they haven't dealt with. The 'lifestyle' has helped me to recognise and deal with mine. In my view it is your Dom that ought to be seeking help here on these boards. Yes he will probably get flamed. But in amongst the flames is real sympathy, empathy and practical advice. No matter how hard it is I think you need to back off. Tell him what you need from him and wait to see if he finds a way to give it to you. If he can't he's the wrong man or you met at the wrong time. People do care about you and him. I can feel it in the replies.

Treasure3 -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 1:04:41 PM)
A big thank you to everyone. I do appreciate the support and encouragement and thank all of you who have said you have been in a similar situation. I may not have posted a lot on these boards, but I've been around long enough to know there are some truly wonderful people who do care.

slavemaia -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 1:15:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Treasure3 I'm not really sure where to put this post. I'm asking for support, experiences, suggestions. I know this is something I am going to have to figure out for myself, but I'm not one to make hasty decisions and I like to have as many points of view as possible so that I can make the best decision for myself and so that I can approach my partner with some ideas that could possibly help us work through the issues. The situation is this... a year and a half ago, I was contacted by my Dom. He said he was ready to give his all to a relationship. I asked all the "right" questions and gathered enough information - I thought - over the following months to be able to say he fit well with what I was seeking. Little by little, we became comfortable with each other, as it should be, but gradually I started to realize he has tons of baggage. Unfortunately, by the time I realized just what I am up against, I was already in love with him. I feel betrayed. He isn't nearly ready to give all as he said he was. He gives a little and takes it back... gives a little and takes it back. In the past six months, we have made a little progress, but it has been a heart wrenching road for me. I don't know how to deal with the baggage and hurts he has. I've been fortunate that I have never before had that sort of drama and pain in my relationships, and I don't know what to do or say to help him, so I offer him my ear and am there for him when he needs me. It's all I know how to do. He has to decide he wants to move past his issues and slay his demons, I get that. I understand I can't make him want to or push him to take the first steps, or do it for him. How though do I get him to understand not only my frustration and pain but that I am scared. He fits the cliches, the adages, the stereotypical image of a man playing the string along game, a player. The thing is, he looks me in the eye and promises me he isn't AND I BELIEVE HIM. As frustrated as I get, I don't feel in my heart that he is playing me. But, I'm coming to the point where I am hurting more than I am happy in the relationship. I know what I want and need in life. I want it to be with him. But... and maybe I am a truly horrid person for saying this... but I don't want to wait and wait and wait, hoping he will finally get to the point where he is ready for what he says he wants. At the same time, I know relationships take work and compromise and patience from both partners, and I have seen him trying. I'm trying to be grateful that he IS making some effort, but the little bit of effort isn't enough to hang on to anymore. Does that make sense? In months past, it was. Now, it feels like too little. How much effort is enough to hold on for? How much of how I am feeling do I share with him? I don't want to add to his problems, but I want to give him the chance to step up and do what he needs to in order for me to be able to stay in the relationship. I don't know if I am explaining that right or not, but I hope what I mean comes through. Any support or encouragement would be most appreciated. I'm in a very loney place right now. When we have pain it's because of us, not someone else. That's the illusion: i feel such n such because you said or you did. Nope. You feel how you feel because of your reactions to anothers words or actions ---- period. Okay - i'm ready to get slammed. But it's the truth. i've found that Chairman's baggage was more about Him not acting and behaving the way i wanted Him to, then it was about His past. i get hurt with MY expectations of another's behavior and words. And i get hurt when i don't want to accept someone or some thing EXACTLY how they are or it is. Your post is quite clear regarding your expectations ". . . .How though do I get him to understand not only my frustration and pain but that I am scared." Why is it His job to understand you? Who's the submissive here? "I know what I want and need in life. I want it to be with him. But... " Yep, there's that infamous word - But. You know what YOU want and need. Well honey, go find it cause He's not it. There's nothing worse than a person who will not or cannot accept us as we are - period. His words are only an attempt to keep you from leaving. But he can only be who he is. You either accept that or not. There is no waiting and hoping unless you choose to change your attitude and perspective. "How much effort is enough to hold on for? How much of how I am feeling do I share with him? I don't want to add to his problems, but I want to give him the chance to step up and do what he needs to in order for me to be able to stay in the relationship." Only as much effort as your willing to put out. Not what HE'S willing or not willing to do. You're looking at it backwards. Give him the chance to step up?????? Wow - wait, let me check - you're a submissive??? No profile, so don't know. i know this may all sound harsh and discompassionate, but believe me it's not. i can only share what i've learned and have found is true for me. It's my hope that in sharing, you are benefitted. Please do yourself a favor and stop expecting him to change.

sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 5:07:14 PM)
You are going to have to decide what you can deal with and live with and make a decision from there. If it is what you can not live with then you have to decide if this is healthy for you. You have to decide when enough is enough and make a decision. Good luck to you. Nobody but you knows what your feelings are can make that final decision.

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 10:23:51 PM)
My best answer to this somewhat vague post is this..You accept him as he is now, or you leave..Never go into a relationship expecting a whole lot of change, for the most part that will not happen..I know it is "his" goal to change but as you have said..very little has...actions always speak louder than words..I attempted to view your profile and found none..so..my purpose for that was to determine your age..as an older woman here, I can tell you that I will give and give and be patient, but if I see more words and no actions to back up those words, then you may have to stop throwing what little time is left away, and seek out what could be a more viable relationship for you.Is this the good submissive way to be?..I know not..As many have said in other threads sometimes you have to stop being the "White submissive Knight" in this case, for you cannot save someone who is unwilling to help save themselves......Tempting

RRafe -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/2/2007 10:50:32 PM)
Do, or do not........ There is no "try." Yoda

tulitukka -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/3/2007 12:36:32 AM)
The following discussion assumes that the D/s relationship is not just a bedroom kink, but that the dominance and submission also show up in the daily life as in 24/7 relationships. I don't believe that it is possible for a submissive to change the dominant in a relationship. The power dynamics just don't go that way. Trying to do that, if nothing else, at least destroys the very dynamic that makes a D/s relationship worthwhile. I can see myself changing my submissive/slave, as long as she is willing to submit to me. There's a lot within the power exchange that I can do (though even it has its limits). I can have her change her habits, I can force her to look into something I see as a problem and give her a plan on how to change it (or make her create a plan for that and stick to it). I cannot see a submissive doing that to a dominant, not without destroying the power dynamics. And destroying them easily creates a huge mess when part of the foundation of the relationship starts crumbling. I cannot see a submissive changing me as a dominant for 'the better'. If on the other hand, I see a problem within myself and am capable of forming an action plan on how to get to a better place, yes, then I can see that my girl can help me achieve it, but that's a whole different scenario. I can even utilize the power dynamics to help me solve my problems. To the OP: Does he consider what's happening a problem as you seem to? If he doesn't, then you two are just not compatible. If he does, does he have a plan to solve it? Is he working on getting it solved? If not, things are not going to change and you most likely won't be able to make things change without destroying the dominant submissive dynamic that you love. A dominant is a dominant because he is in control. The first thing he needs to have control over is himself and his life. Or could the problem possibly be that you are trying to change him and are wrestling for the control in a relationship? (I'm not saying you are, but think about it.)

girlygurl -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/3/2007 4:22:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavemaia When we have pain it's because of us, not someone else. That's the illusion: i feel such n such because you said or you did. Nope. You feel how you feel because of your reactions to anothers words or actions ---- period. Okay - i'm ready to get slammed. But it's the truth. i've found that Chairman's baggage was more about Him not acting and behaving the way i wanted Him to, then it was about His past. i get hurt with MY expectations of another's behavior and words. And i get hurt when i don't want to accept someone or some thing EXACTLY how they are or it is. Your post is quite clear regarding your expectations ". . . .How though do I get him to understand not only my frustration and pain but that I am scared." Why is it His job to understand you? Who's the submissive here? "I know what I want and need in life. I want it to be with him. But... " Yep, there's that infamous word - But. You know what YOU want and need. Well honey, go find it cause He's not it. There's nothing worse than a person who will not or cannot accept us as we are - period. His words are only an attempt to keep you from leaving. But he can only be who he is. You either accept that or not. There is no waiting and hoping unless you choose to change your attitude and perspective. "How much effort is enough to hold on for? How much of how I am feeling do I share with him? I don't want to add to his problems, but I want to give him the chance to step up and do what he needs to in order for me to be able to stay in the relationship." Only as much effort as your willing to put out. Not what HE'S willing or not willing to do. You're looking at it backwards. Give him the chance to step up?????? Wow - wait, let me check - you're a submissive??? No profile, so don't know. i know this may all sound harsh and discompassionate, but believe me it's not. i can only share what i've learned and have found is true for me. It's my hope that in sharing, you are benefitted. Please do yourself a favor and stop expecting him to change. slavemaia, I just had to comment on some of what you said in this post. I agree with you "when we have pain it's because of us, not someone else." We as individuals act and react, feel and think because of who we are and what our childhood/past looked like. We may take responsibility for our actions and choices as adults but how we handle "stuff" comes down to what we're made of . For example, I crave for my SIr to love me the way I love Him. He cares for me deeply, but He is not in love with me. Yes, it hurts at times, but He is not hurting me, it's my desire to be loved and not receiving the level of love from Him that hurts. That leads me into your next statement, "i get hurt with MY expectations of another's behavior and words." All I can say is, thank you!! Thank you for reminding me that when I place expectations on others I'll get hurt. "i get hurt when i don't want to accept someone or some thing exactly how they are or it is." I had never looked at it from this point of view before, and I'm going to relook at my current situation with this perspective and see how it works for me. Prior to reading your post, I was beginning to think I was settling for something less than what I really wanted. For me, I am in love with my Dom, I love the human being he is and what he stands for in life. He just won't allow Himself to love in the way "I think, or want" Him to love, and of course it could very well be as simple as I'm just not the one for Him. The OP asks, "How much effort is enough to hold on for?" Your reply, "Only as much effort as your willing to put out." Dang, you are really hitting home with me slavemaia! I am of the same opinion, and I usually say, we all have limits, be it "hard limits", physical pain limits, and emotional pain limits. For me, once I've reached my emotional pain limit I know it's time for change. To the OP, Treasure... Thank you for posting and sharing! You're posting touched my heart and I really do wish you the best. girly

CalifChick -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/3/2007 2:15:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Treasure3 I keep telling myself I'm strong, that I can hang in there, show him I'm not like his past partners, prove I won't do the same things they did that he is so afraid of. Is this the core issue? Is he holding you at arms length and punishing you for the sins of his prior partners? If so, then either he should be showing continuing progress in this area or he has no intentions of doing so. What I mean by that is, for example, if his prior partner was an embarrassment to him in front of his friends, is he keeping YOU from his friends? Or is he starting slowly, having one friend over, seeing that he can be proud of you, that you aren't embarrassing him. And then does he take the next step and have you around a small group of the friends, then a larger party, etc. Or does he have the one friend over, then no one for months, then one friend over... because he is afraid you will embarrass him even though you have done nothing to indicate that? Is he all talk and no action? If so, then he may not REALLY be ready to heal from the past, despite all his pretty promises that he is. I would suggest a good therapist. And if you don't find a good one on the first go round, try another. Sharon

WillowRain -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/3/2007 2:18:04 PM)
I hate to say this. It is hard to say this to you, and it's something I've had to say to myself. Make your choices about whether or not to be with this person based on who and where they are now. People have control over their own potential, whether to manifest it, or to completely let it languish and you have no control or say in that very personal choice of theirs. Be really honest with yourself, and with them, maybe sit down with a kink friendly counceler. Is who they are right now a good match for you? Not who they might be, or become, but who they are now? Who they are now, is who you are having the relationship with. Much luck to you quote: ORIGINAL: Treasure3 I'm not really sure where to put this post. I'm asking for support, experiences, suggestions. I know this is something I am going to have to figure out for myself, but I'm not one to make hasty decisions and I like to have as many points of view as possible so that I can make the best decision for myself and so that I can approach my partner with some ideas that could possibly help us work through the issues. The situation is this... a year and a half ago, I was contacted by my Dom. He said he was ready to give his all to a relationship. I asked all the "right" questions and gathered enough information - I thought - over the following months to be able to say he fit well with what I was seeking. Little by little, we became comfortable with each other, as it should be, but gradually I started to realize he has tons of baggage. Unfortunately, by the time I realized just what I am up against, I was already in love with him. I feel betrayed. He isn't nearly ready to give all as he said he was. He gives a little and takes it back... gives a little and takes it back. In the past six months, we have made a little progress, but it has been a heart wrenching road for me. I don't know how to deal with the baggage and hurts he has. I've been fortunate that I have never before had that sort of drama and pain in my relationships, and I don't know what to do or say to help him, so I offer him my ear and am there for him when he needs me. It's all I know how to do. He has to decide he wants to move past his issues and slay his demons, I get that. I understand I can't make him want to or push him to take the first steps, or do it for him. How though do I get him to understand not only my frustration and pain but that I am scared. He fits the cliches, the adages, the stereotypical image of a man playing the string along game, a player. The thing is, he looks me in the eye and promises me he isn't AND I BELIEVE HIM. As frustrated as I get, I don't feel in my heart that he is playing me. But, I'm coming to the point where I am hurting more than I am happy in the relationship. I know what I want and need in life. I want it to be with him. But... and maybe I am a truly horrid person for saying this... but I don't want to wait and wait and wait, hoping he will finally get to the point where he is ready for what he says he wants. At the same time, I know relationships take work and compromise and patience from both partners, and I have seen him trying. I'm trying to be grateful that he IS making some effort, but the little bit of effort isn't enough to hang on to anymore. Does that make sense? In months past, it was. Now, it feels like too little. How much effort is enough to hold on for? How much of how I am feeling do I share with him? I don't want to add to his problems, but I want to give him the chance to step up and do what he needs to in order for me to be able to stay in the relationship. I don't know if I am explaining that right or not, but I hope what I mean comes through. Any support or encouragement would be most appreciated. I'm in a very loney place right now.

sexyred1 -> RE: Dealing with a Dom's baggage... long post (11/3/2007 2:39:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WillowRain I hate to say this. It is hard to say this to you, and it's something I've had to say to myself. Make your choices about whether or not to be with this person based on who and where they are now. People have control over their own potential, whether to manifest it, or to completely let it languish and you have no control or say in that very personal choice of theirs. Be really honest with yourself, and with them, maybe sit down with a kink friendly counceler. Is who they are right now a good match for you? Not who they might be, or become, but who they are now? Who they are now, is who you are having the relationship with. Much luck to you quote: This is so true!!! Too many of us, me included, stayed with someone that we initially fell in love with and when they changed, we keep thinking, oh, they are going through something and that original person will come back. Unless the person wants to change, they never really revert back and this advice should be taken to heart, especially if the sadness is overcoming any happiness in the relationship.

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