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Re:disease theory, MRSA - 11/5/2007 7:53:56 AM   
Termyn8or


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I bought some silver. I had to borrow the money to do it, but silver is poised to go up in value. I was thinking of selling it to make some quick cash, but I have reconsidered.

Silver is a trace mineral in the body. It is essential to the immune system, and I am sure people do not get enough of it. You don't need much, but you still need it.

Now I am looking for a way to get the silver into an absobable form. I have heard of colloidal silver generators but I would much rather do it in some natural way. Certain plants must be able do absorb it, and I was thinking maybe an herb garden.

Does anyone know anything about this ? About what silver does in the body. I could easily double my money on this, but my health is more important, and now that I know someone who I think has MRSA, I wonder if it would do any good.

It's worth a shot.

Silver has been touted as an immune system builder for a long time. Do I believe it ? I don't know, I WANT to know. So do I grind the shit up and start growing something, or do I go get a colloidal silver generator ?

Don't confuse this with Seasilver, a highly recommended supplement. I don't think there is any silver in it.

Like to do the same with other minerals. Chromium, vanadium, manganese, phosphorous, all of it. There are 24 minerals recognized as ESSENTIAL to human life by the FDA, and there are more in other countries. Countries in which the doctors are not as rich I might add.

From what I have gleaned in the last decade on the subject, let's say you have a garden. You grow veggies and the land was never farmed before. On a scale of 1-10 your produce might be a 2. What youy buy in the store is 0. Nuts are a solid 6, but spices are about a 20, on a scale of 1-10 mind you.

From what I could find, the minerals in a teaspoon of certain spices are about what you would get from a cup of nuts, like cashews and brazil nuts. But it would take a heaping helping of veggies to get the same minerals, if you even can.

One piece of information sticks me, cashews are grown in India. Why ? Because they won't grow here. Brazil nuts are not from Canada. The things that are hard to grow are what we need. And price means nothing. Macedamian nuts are just as devoid of nutrients as peanuts.

Plants extract the minerals from the ground for us. Many plants will still grow even if the soil is depleted. Certain plants however, need other minerals than what is provided by fertilizer. Therefore (a point of logic), since we cannot test what we eat, we should eat things that need what we need. Things that will not grow in a sand/NPK mixture. Things that are grown in different places in the world, or under special conditions.

Silver is not the end all catch all of the subject. You need all the minerals. The pancreas needs chromium and vanadium, you can get all the chromium in the world, but without the vanadium, you will still be just as diabetic. The reverse is also true.

You can get all the calcium in the world, but without manganese and phosphorous and a few others, you will still have brittle bones, and probably gallstones as well.

You see we need all of them. Just one mineral will not turn you into superman, you need them all. They work together.

Women get gestational diabetes because the fetus takes what it needs FIRST. This is the way of life. If the Woman has a good enough diet, she will not get gestational diabetes, but just what is that. I have spent years trying to find out just what type of diet is best. It is not easy.

And then, not knowing all this, everybody has slightly different body chemistry. The variables are too numerous. The only solution is to cover all the bases so to speak.

That is my opinion. Call it hogwash if you like, but if you know any way to get silver into a form that is absorbable by the human body, I do want to hear that.

And JerseyKrissy (hope I spelled it right), if I succeed, I will send you some.

I mean I just don't yet know exactly what to do, should I grind the stuff up and put it with some dirt and grow certain plants, or should I figure out some way with reverse electrolisys or something ? If there is a way I intend to find it.

Find me one plant that is the hardest thing on Earth to get to grow, that is probably the way. Things that are grown halfway around the world are grown there for a reason. Sometimes it is climate, but not always. Out of 300,000,000 people not one got the idea to try to grow these things here ? It can't just be climate because the US spans enough lines of latitude that there are quite different climates right here in this country. There is another reason that certain things will not grow here, and I think I am scratching the surface of a new truth.

Anyone care to try to think along here ? I think it is an important point, because it affects all of our lives. It is worth a bit of time.

That is my opinion.

T
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RE: Re:disease theory, MRSA - 11/5/2007 9:29:21 AM   
GhitaAmati


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Termyn8or,

Check into a solution of mild silver protien. It does not have that odd blueing quality that collodial silver does, and is wonderful for the body. One one of the local health supplements stores near us carries it, and its getting harder and harder to come by. But the amount of healing properties in one bottle has never ceased to amaze me since a friend of ours gave it to my husband one day. The benifits of silver are definantly amazing. Send me a CMail on the other side if youd like me to find you some more info about it.

~edited cause Im sorry, I totally misread your question. You were asking if there is anyway to make a silver solution at home? The only thing I know about is the collodial thing you mentioned, its basically made from two leads you hook to a rod or coin of pure silver, drop it into distilled water, and turn on the electricity. I dont know any other way. The only problem with that is, it really doesnt create small enough particles. It also doesnt create an actually suspention, the particles begin to clump back together almost immediately. Silver does not disolve inside the human body. What ever the particle size you ingest, is the size that stays in your body, so the important thing about taking silver, is the surface area of the silver in your body, not the amount of silver. If you take a clump of silver, the only part that is going to help you, is the surface of that clump, all the silver inside of the clump is being wasted. So if you can figure out how to make smaller particles then less silver is wasted and more is helping your body. There is just no way to create particles that small with the generator at home. I know we are discussing a difference of micrometers and nanometers but with silver there is a marked difference in the effect.

Also, if you ever do find yourself in the situation where you have taken so much that your skin is beginning to turn ashy or blue, chelation has been known to reverse the effects even though most doctors will tell you that argyria is permenant.

< Message edited by GhitaAmati -- 11/5/2007 10:03:12 AM >


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RE: Re:disease theory, MRSA - 11/7/2007 2:51:02 PM   
ThinkingKitten


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The romans used to put a silver coin into their water barrels to help keep the water fresh (reduce growth of microorganisms). This implies a leaching of silver ions into the water.  Some folks think the term "blue blood" for aristocracy came from their blood being darker (bluer) in colour due to ingestion of silver from silverware etc.

Not so long ago, babies had silver nitrate drops put into their eyes at birth to prevent neo-natal eye infections...

Silver impregnated meshes are now in use for the treatment of infected wounds... especially those colonised with MRSA.

Soooo there is nothing new to the use of silver as an "antibiotic" agent (although not being from a living organism, it does not qualify as an actual antibiotic).

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RE: Re:disease theory, MRSA - 11/7/2007 6:22:45 PM   
gcarlos


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Wait a second here!  Yes, silver is used in natural medicine.  BUT---NEVER EVER ingest a silver concoction you have made youself!  There is no way for you to know how much silver is in there unless you are an experienced Chemist and know how to test for this.  Silver in excess can be lethal.  It may not kill you with the first dose, but it can build up over time and lead to some horrible side effects followed by death. 

Be careful!

--Master's {girl}

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RE: Re:disease theory, MRSA - 11/7/2007 6:25:09 PM   
hermione83


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You should see the lovely blue color people have turned permanently from taking colloidal silver. Silver should never be ingested, period. It may or may not be effective against pathogens topically. The bandaids that used to have claims on them that had silver in the bandages have now been forced to take all claims off, as they were not able to prove any effectiveness at all. 

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RE: Re:disease theory, MRSA - 11/8/2007 4:05:48 AM   
SeveredNeuron


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Hi guys,

This is the abstract from a review from the International Wound Journal (2006), 3(4), 282-94
Leaper DJ. - Wound Healing Research Unit, Cardiff University, Cardiff, CF14 4XN UK.

Dressings have a part to play in the management of wounds; whether they are sutured or open, usually chronic wounds of many aetiologies which are healing by secondary intention. They traditionally provide a moist wound environment, but this property has been extended through simple to complex, active dressings which can handle excessive exudate, aid in debridement, and promote disorganised, stalled healing. The control of infection remains a major challenge. Inappropriate antibiotic use risks allergy, toxicity and most importantly resistance, which is much reduced by the use of topical antiseptics (such as povidone iodine and chlorhexidine). The definition of what is an antimicrobial and the recognition of infection has proven difficult. Although silver has been recognised for centuries to inhibit infection its use in wound care is relatively recent. Evidence of the efficacy of the growing number of silver dressings in clinical trials, judged by the criteria of the Cochrane Collaboration, is lacking, but there are good indications for the use of silver dressings, to remove or reduce an increasing bioburden in burns and open wounds healing by secondary intention, or to act as a barrier against cross contamination of resistant organisms such as MRSA. More laboratory, and clinical data in particular, are needed to prove the value of the many silver dressings which are now available. Some confusion persists over the measurement of toxicity and antibacterial activity but all dressings provide an antibacterial action, involving several methods of delivery. Nanocrystalline technology appears to give the highest, sustained release of silver to a wound without clear risk of toxicity.

Pretty much all it says is that there is some evidence of silver helping wounds but only by acting as a mechanical barrier against pathogens!!!

There was only a handful of articles on PubMed (NCBI - NIH search resource) on silver treatments and MRSA and none of them mentioned anything about ingestion so i would strongly advise against it. Silver may be a mineral we need - but in miniscule amounts, I have not heard of it being a major cofactor in any crucial proteins in ways like other mineral such as iron and magnesium are.
Hope this helps you make an informed decision

- Ania

< Message edited by SeveredNeuron -- 11/8/2007 4:06:54 AM >


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RE: Re:disease theory, MRSA - 11/9/2007 12:42:08 AM   
Termyn8or


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Thank you to all the naysayers, I appreciate your concern. But I am not stupid. I was not going to dump it in battery acid, boil it down and eat it. And wonder now about making it colloidal, perhaps that is too much.

I'd bet I can find out about the silver content of a colloidal liquid by measuring it's electrical conductivity, but I have no reference. But then if I always had a silver dime at the bottom of a glass of beer, that would be taking it the natural way, which IMO should not harm me.

And that was one of my biggest problems, just how much do you need ? And how do you measure it on top of that ? If I do anything, I will research it, but until then, if I left a peice of silver in my spaghetti sauce or paprikash as it cooked, that is highly unikely to cause problems. If I were to put silver into a vat of anything like that, the absorption should be normal.

Stew, soup, sauce, it is all the same thing really.

Now here's a thing that does not involve wierd chemistry, well not quite. You may remember that I have no sweet tooth at all. Sweet things are almost repungnant to me. The last few times I drank tea, it was with seasalt and butter. You have to keep stirring it up, but it is different to say the least. I almost like it. Now what if there was a silver dollar in it ? Would that heated mixture with salts and fats extract some of that silver ? It might, and I think if it does it will be in a natural form.

I'll swear by colloidal minerals, but the people who make them did a bit of homework, and had real chemists and doctors to come up with the formula. I fully agree that I do not have that.

First of all, there are near no published studies on just how much silver you need. There is some mention though of toxicity. Well you can also OD on calcium, phosporous or potassium. In fact, in the right form your body should excrete it, but this is not always true.

I think that one good indicator of our mineral needs would be answered by the following : What is the ratio of these minerals in the Earth itself ? This is a theory I have decided to explore. I grant you that there is very little silver in the Earth, and that you need alot more calcium and who knows what else. However silicon, which is quite prevalent, blows that theory. You need very very little of it. But perhaps the perception is slewed by the fact that sand has silicon. You can't eat sand.

They didn't throw silver dollars into the milk and water buckets for nothing. Do you have any idea what a dollar was worth back then ? I could be over a week's pay. Try throwing your payheck into the milk bottle in the fridge. I am not talking health at this second, the ramifications of sequestering one of your hard earned dollars was not to be taken lightly. A dollar would probably feed you for a month if you tried.

They had some reason for doing it, and they survived times without our modern technology, our phone, pherenomes and who the hell knows what else. They lived without cars. They lived without electricity. They lived without modern medicine.

Now, anyone who wants to flame me must read this in it's entirety first.

I cite myself : We are alive.
I cite myself : The people before us lived more primitively. They established all this for us. If they had not survived without modern technology, we would not be here.

So, I intend somehow to get this silver into my body, but have decided aginst colloidal. For some reason silver must dissolve slowly or something in water based solutes. If that did not benefit humans, they would not throw silver into cisterns or whatever.

Now there is another question, which I almost deem to be more important.

I intend to make things that are heated, and I intend to put silver into them. I do not mean acid, I mean things like soup, stew, sauce. This is more natural and it suits me alot better anyway. The people who told me silver should never be ingested should unjerk their knee. I can explain, but please, a bit later. You could say the same thing about copper, but a copper deficiency will cause a stroke. But you only need a little bit. There are only a few minerals that are not considered trace minerals. Like potassium, carbon, calcium and so forth. The rest of them are components of the parts of your body and are essential, but you only need a little bit of most of them. I think you need alot smaller bit of silver.

But the question is, should I leave the tarnish on when I drop it in ? I think so. I think you want that, is it not the oxidation of silver ? Now here will be an interesting experiment. I'll put it in. remember this is not acid or anything, this is food. It will be clean, but will still have the tarnish. What if it comes out of the pot without tarnish ? Has anyone ever tried this ?

I am going to make something, and I intend to drop some silver into the pot. I will give some of this to my buddy who we think has MRSA. I will eat it as well of course. But what if it works ?

What if I ground it up and added it to soil for the garden ? Or an herb garden ?

There are more natural ways than to colloidize it. And people in the past used those ways to survive.

And I will throw one more thing out there, people used to live alot longer. There are two factors at work which decieve us, one of which is statistics. With all the people killed in wars, of course the average lifespan is down. And there is another factor, to judge the age of a skeleton, a fossil, they use toda's standards of decay you age at. Not carbon dating, but the age at which some guy died a long time ago. I submit that we go down the tubes faster now, while our ancestors, while still in their prime, got killed by somebody. That makes it all fit.

And even if they didn't have a POTENTIAL longer lifespan, they didn't have inhalers, nitroglycerine, congfucking something, nothing. There was no lipitor, but they brought home the bacon. There was no vasodilators, but they lived on fat for part of the year.

I remember my Grandmother making squatki for me. They used to eat that ? Are we the same species ? I say that now, but the stuff was really good. Why didn't they die young ? I say it is because nobody killed them.

Anthropological studies could be skewed because of environmental factors. If you dispute that I just don't know what to say. My Granfather kept his teeth until the day he died, and he made it to his seventies. I think if they found his skeleton today they would think him alot younger at the time of death because of that. Get it ?

That is what I am talking about, it is not that we have no facts, it is that we do not each and every one of us, get the chance to interpret them for ourselves. I think that is the problem. They say people live longer now, but what, in an iron lung ? It is medical science that keeps some alive, when nature wants them dead.  Harsh ? Not yet.

If you think I will abandon my theories, and this "survival of the fittest" attitude because my friend of thirty years dies of MRSA, you are mistaken. He wasn't fit enough. I have told him to get off the high carbs, get some nutrients and fortify his body. Did he listen ? no. I am absolved of everything in this. I tried. If the silver shit does not work, oh well.

I'm not saying I will be happy, but him dying will not change my point of view. I will know that I have tried.

T

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RE: Re:disease theory, MRSA - 11/9/2007 2:45:29 AM   
TotalState


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What the hell has any of this to do with BDSM?

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RE: Re:disease theory, MRSA - 11/9/2007 9:20:14 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalState

What the hell has any of this to do with BDSM?


Technically, it is found in the OFF TOPIC DISCUSSION forum of a BDSM web site.

Clear as mud?

Sinergy

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