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RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/5/2007 7:53:36 PM

deziray

Posts: 18
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Hello daddyscherry

J and I talked for 4 months about what the relationship would entail; what each of us wanted from the other; what he considered to be 'open' within the relationship ( meaning that he could change something down the line if he felt the need to without my consent ); what he considered to be firm, unbendable boundaries.
During these 4 months, there was no 'power being exchanged'; we were simply two people contemplating a very complex relationship with each other and seeing how we reacted to the demands of the other. And yes, before our relationship became one of ownership, he was open to anything that I wanted, needed, or just felt that I had to have to be happy. I did not get everything that I wanted but, he did compromise on some things.
Once he placed the steel around my neck though; everything became his way. There was no compromise at all.

If you take the time before getting into the relationship to discuss the things that are most important; then little changes down the road are not as monumental as one might think.

desiree

< Message edited by deziray -- 11/5/2007 7:54:19 PM >

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RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/5/2007 8:12:18 PM

IrishMist

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I jumped right in... had no flipping idea what I was getting into and did not care at that time. Would I do it the same way again... absolutly.

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Post #: 22

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/5/2007 8:39:01 PM

daddyncherry

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Thank you for all the well thought out repsonses...

Unfortunately, i still don't think i've made myself completely clear on what i'm asking on this (damn i feel totally blonde and ya' gotta just love the written word-UGH lol)...a couple people seem to have gotten what i was trying to ask.

More than having really anything to do with my relationship now, since we've been involved now for almost 3 years (from talking online to being TPE 24/7)

So i'm going to attempt to ask again, and maybe i can say it differently...i'll try using the example of my friends that i was talking with...since her Master and mine have done things completely the opposite of eachother.

She and her Master have been together for almost a year and he has really been pushing some things very quickly with her...He asked me if i thought he was going too quickly..asked how my Master had done it with me.

My Master/Daddy has been slowly allowing me to evolve...slowly creating me into what he desires....

Both of them desire the same result....but go about it differently.

Looking back, and even when it was initially happening, i WISHED that my Daddy would go more quickly with me...before i got too comfortable with things being a certain way. To me, this was a new relationship...to begin it with certain boundaries in place from the onset seemed like to me it would've been better.

So that is the question....putting aside the fact that you are taking time to know one another etc....when you know that you are already going to be TPE or 24/7 and that of course, things will deepen and surrender will be more intense.

Would you rather have some of the bigger things that might become common place later in place from the get go? Or would you rather have something you grow accustomed to yanked out from under you later on?

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 23

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/5/2007 8:40:34 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

If you set out to form X relationship, being that that relationship will ultimately be TPE (this is the intent at the onset), yes, you would have to go through the steps....yes you would have to get to know one another all of that, certainly.

The question is more to the point of..rules and boundaries set up within the relationship.

i sited the example of the Master, at the onset, saying, that yes, he will be having sex with other girls at his descretion....So then, that would be understood from the onset.

For me, this type of thing would've been easier, than, now, a year and change later, after getting all comfy cozy, to then be told that he would do this.

Another example would be...Furniture...would it be easier to adapt at the onset to not sitting on the furniture, or to have that freedom removed from you after the relationship is more formed?...Sleeping in the bed with your M for a year, and then told to sleep on a cot...

This is what i was trying to get at.

Is it easier to have alot of the "fences" in place at the beginning and then to maybe earn them or whatever over time? Or is is easier to have all of these freedoms and then one day realize "Oh damn, i really was taking for granted the aability to sleep in the bed?"

Edited to add: i tried to explain my feelings to my Daddy at the beginning..how the boundaries would make me feel safer and more secure within our relationship. i likened it to a child needing boundaries..and how it would be more difficult to impose those on me later....Kind of like if you got a kitten...and as the kitten was growing you allowed it to jump on the bed, the counters, and basically go where ever it pleased...then suddenly...you don't want the cat on the furniture....well damn, wouldn't it have been easier to teach it that from day one?

Except that maybe you didn't decide until day 1000 that you didn't want the cat on the furniture. Or maybe you didn't want the cat on the furniture initially and then decided on day 1560 that you did want the cat cuddling next to you. Things change, people change and evolve as do relationships. I view relationships, espcially ownership dynamics as an organic being that needs feeding and really does unfold over the years and changes over the years. So I think its absolutely impossible to set establish all or even the majority the rules and boundaries upfront unless: 1) its a short term relationship 2) its a non-organic/artificial dynamic thats fairly rigid.

C~

Edited to add: I'm not a fan of terms like TPE, PPE, PE, PEEING, which is why my post didn't use those terms. I just prefer referring to structures that involve enslavement either ownership or enslavement. But I don't believe in setting a goal for ownership or deciding to make a relationship an ownership dynamic, I think either it is or it isn't there (a function of creating an artifical dynamic versus an organic dynamic that evolves and develops based on how the people naturally relate).

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 11/5/2007 8:47:41 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/5/2007 8:58:13 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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This is also why one of the best skills to have is the ability to adapt.

If you build a strong foundation, it doesn't matter what storms come or how often.

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Post #: 25

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 4:01:53 AM

kyraofMists

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cherry,

Your clarification does not change my answer. Putting rules and boundaries in place is essentially changing behavior. If you set out to change too many behaviors at one time, i.e. enforce all the rules at one time, you will most likely set the person up for failure. You can't take a civilian, walk them onto a military base and presto they are a soldier. Over time they are taught the rules and protocols of being a soldier; they get the basics first and as they progress new challenges are added.

I also agree with Wildfleurs, that over time people change and they want to engage in new activities. They can't tell you in the beginning that they will do that with you because it held no interest for them or was not in their frame of reference. My Lord and Alandra did not start out as poly. They started out as a monogamous couple and poly came later and in fact, was Alandra's idea. In the beginning of my relationship with him, he had no desire to do needle play and it is a huge fear of mine. Now he is interested in it and will do it on me.

I am in a relationship with them because of who they are. I am not in a relationship with them because he lets me sit on furniture, sleep in the bed or all the other myriad of privileges that I receive. If he wants to take those things away then he will. I will learn to adapt just like I learned to adapt to calling him my Lord or serving him in a particular way. He will do his will and he will not harm us. That is all I needed to know on that first day.

Knight's Kyra

p.s. We don't consider ourselves in a TPE relationship; for us that term has no meaning. I transferred all authority to him and he exercises that authority in whatever manner he chooses.

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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Post #: 26

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 4:48:45 AM

batshalom

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Mm. Doesn't change my answer either. I cannot do whole hog all at once. It makes me rebel hard, long ... and efficiently.

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Post #: 27

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 6:56:54 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

Thank you for all the well thought out repsonses...

Unfortunately, i still don't think i've made myself completely clear on what i'm asking on this (damn i feel totally blonde and ya' gotta just love the written word-UGH lol)...a couple people seem to have gotten what i was trying to ask.

More than having really anything to do with my relationship now, since we've been involved now for almost 3 years (from talking online to being TPE 24/7)

So i'm going to attempt to ask again, and maybe i can say it differently...i'll try using the example of my friends that i was talking with...since her Master and mine have done things completely the opposite of eachother.

She and her Master have been together for almost a year and he has really been pushing some things very quickly with her...He asked me if i thought he was going too quickly..asked how my Master had done it with me.

My Master/Daddy has been slowly allowing me to evolve...slowly creating me into what he desires....

Both of them desire the same result....but go about it differently.

Looking back, and even when it was initially happening, i WISHED that my Daddy would go more quickly with me...before i got too comfortable with things being a certain way. To me, this was a new relationship...to begin it with certain boundaries in place from the onset seemed like to me it would've been better.

So that is the question....putting aside the fact that you are taking time to know one another etc....when you know that you are already going to be TPE or 24/7 and that of course, things will deepen and surrender will be more intense.

Would you rather have some of the bigger things that might become common place later in place from the get go? Or would you rather have something you grow accustomed to yanked out from under you later on?

Your further explanation doesn't change my answer either. I have never made any bones about those things I like and those things I don't. I've also been clear about what I have not explored and what I would like to explore and what...down the road...I might add/take away from either side of the equation. But making it clear as to what might happen and what will definitively happen are two different things. And, as noted on here, submissives are people first, each with their own way of doing things. You state that you would have liked boundaries and rules and expectations set from the start...kyra states that she would still be going slowly in some areas if it was not for Knight pushing in a way that is beneficial to him AND to them. deziray notes that before any sort of power exchange took place, she and her master were two people discussing a complex relationship. And let's face it...there isn't much difference between telling one submissive that you have spent (to use another person's example) 1 day with that she WILL be expected to sleep with other girls versus telling her that she might be expected to if she becomes yours. However, there is a whole lot of difference in telling the same submissive that 30 days into knowing her...30 days of exploring wants and needs and desires and expectations on both sides versus 1 day of "just starting to know you" conversation. Look at batshalom's answer. While there may be those who want it whole hog, right on the table, right now...others' answers here have proven that there are many who do not and who, in fact, would run from a dominant stating such right up front. He could be seen as rude and/or arrogant and/or presumptious...and on and on and on whereas 15, 30, 45 days down the road of knowing him, he would not be. AND...I don't see it as bait and switch because he is not lying about his wants and needs and desires but he is being smart enough to not scare a prospect off by assuming that she is one who wants all this right up front.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 11/6/2007 7:30:39 AM >

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Post #: 28

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 8:42:12 AM

MasterMataeo

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do what feels right,, some jump in ,, some take it slow,, it's up to the individuals
as for me ,, it depends on the chemistry

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Try anything Once, Twice if you like it, Three times to make sure, four makes it a habit, and five makes it's a fetish.

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Post #: 29

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 8:45:19 AM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyscherry

i have only started one other thread, so i hope this comes out right.

After reading on another thread this...

"If TPE is even on the table, it should be built up slowly as trust and compatibility are built by exposure and gradually increasing the degree or strictness of Protocol and/or interaction."

It made me think on something that i've thought about on quite a few occasions, as well as something that came up in a recent conversation with some friends.

When my Daddy and i were first together, and i was well aware of getting involved with a Master and becoming a slave i thought that some things would just be a given, one example, would be that he could have sex with other girls, as Master's perogative. (something, at the time, he didn't seem to desire)

i brought up the fact that i felt it would be much more difficult to initiate things later on in the relationship, after i had become accustomed to them being one way. i felt that boundaries that were instilled from the onset would be much easier to work in than taking away freedoms later on.

my Daddy has been slow with me on alot of things, but sometimes it feels like a band-aid being slowly ripped off, even though i know he is watching out for my well being.

Sooo how do you all feel about going slowly? VS. beginning with a TPE mindset and then allowing that to grow more deeply?

Depends on how hard core the desires of the woman are. I'd go slow with someone I thought to be mentally or emotionally fragile. But I can pull out the stops with someone I know gets off on the more extreme aspects. Why wait, if you don't have to?

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Post #: 30

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 8:47:20 AM

daddyncherry

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Thank you KOM and CD for your extra responses.

Maybe this is why my Daddy, being more experienced than my friend's Master decided to go more slowly with me, he has said that if he would've done "XYZ" at the beginning i most likely would've run away.

i understand completely that there are always more levels, activities and such that come over time, with building trust etc. Also, maybe it is on a case by case (slave by slave or activity by activity) basis.

i still think for me if certain things were done at the onset that those things would've been easier for me to deal with because it would've been just how things were....as time has gone on there is a part of those things that has become more difficult for me.

Thank you again for all your responses.

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 31

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 9:40:09 AM

Celeste43

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Okay, just picking the example of other women. I still think it is better to ease into it. That in order for this to work without you getting so upset that you leave, he needs to first work on solidifying the relationship with you so that he discovers what needs you have that must be met to prevent you feeling betrayed.

You can make any rule you want, but your emotions don't necessarily follow them. Much better to work up to the point where your emotions aren't going to short circuit everything.

In the beginning the dog was allowed up on all of the furniture except my bed (allergies) but I soon discovered the living room couch fabric couldn't withstand her claws. She adapted with no trouble to getting onto my oldest's bed to snuggle, or nap, or the downstairs couch while staying off the one in the living room.

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RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 10:24:28 AM

HottLicks

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I don't know if I am hijacking here... but after reading the responses, one thing keeps running through my mind. I have seen it happen and am not sure how to think about it all. I have my own way of doing things that I find are workable in my relationships and move in slowly building a relationship I hope will last. Building a foundation in one another... trust and all that. Communication is major in establishing everything. What we know we like or don't like or want and what works for that moment, some change... some do not. With a solid foundation and consideration for both dominant and submissive, I think things tend to go well... but...

By doing things slowly with some... would they feel they were lied to if they were allowed to sleep with the dominant and then no longer allowed to once things evolved? I am just using this as an example, but many topics could be used.

I have seen dominants that established a relationship based on certain things and then did a total turn around on demands and such and have seen submissives feel that they misrepresented themselves and that they were lied to. What would be the difference in these situations?

I can see things in many ways here and don't struggle with it in my own relationships, but wonder about others and this thread kind of brought me back to that. I think what I am saying or asking goes along with the thread so don't think I am hijacking here... but if I am... I am sorry and hope someone will tell me. Thanks!

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Post #: 33

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 10:33:04 AM

HottLicks

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I can see where having firm rules (total power exchange?) might create a stability for the submissive to function in because they know what is expected of them and there are no surprises. So I can see how some might want it all from the start.

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Post #: 34

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 11:15:19 AM

charlotte12

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This is something that has been on my mind a lot recently as my Master and i are working toward my complete enslavement to him. My answer would be that not only does it depend on the individuals but also on the specific relationship. He and i relate to M/s on a level that i have not found with anyone else. Not all of it is even something i express completely but in our months long discussions before i begged his training collar i found that he was someone who approaced slavery much the way i had always thought about it. I also came to trust that he would never want to hurt me (in a bad way :P ) or make me truly miserable and so i have been able to "jump in" so to speak with the knowledge that he will take things at the pace that he feels is necessary to keep me sane. I actually seem to go more insane the more i try to control the rate at which things go. When i start freaking out about something i find that a simple reminder that i AM his slave calms me down and i feel much better about his decisions. In fact i find myself asking for more, wanting him to push me more but am grateful that he is strong enough to know that he needs to build a foundation before demanding too much of me.

So i would say that i would want to take it slower with someone who i did not feel so safe with, who i did not trust enough to be able to make me his without demanding my debit card and making me quit my job or move right away. For me it has been important that we begin with the goal of complete enslavement in mind (after months of discussions on equal ground.) He and i are of the same mind that in order to learn to be a slave one must actually be one. That doesn't mean all the rules and demands must be layed out at once but it does mean maintaining a certain mindset from the beginning. He often reminds me that he is being much more lenient with me now than he will be in the future when he feels that i have accepted and embraced my place more completely. So it's not so much that i feel my car is mine because i have a right to it but because he allows me to continue to make the decisions about it's use because he doesn't believe i could handle his commandeering it yet.

This way of looking at it works very well for me...with Him. I would probably have a different answer for a different relationship.

Interesting question :)

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Post #: 35

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 11:32:33 AM

daddyncherry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Okay, just picking the example of other women. I still think it is better to ease into it. That in order for this to work without you getting so upset that you leave, he needs to first work on solidifying the relationship with you so that he discovers what needs you have that must be met to prevent you feeling betrayed.

You can make any rule you want, but your emotions don't necessarily follow them. Much better to work up to the point where your emotions aren't going to short circuit everything.

i think this may be true with some....to ease into it...

For me, at the beginning i was prepared for what i thought would be a given. When that wasn't there to beging with, and my Daddy gave me a year to just be his little girl, i have found it much more difficult to surrender to the idea....i have grown much more attched to him...much more accustomed to our life being a certain way.....For me...i have a hard hard time with change...in general...i mostly hate it...(working on that)....so if i would've just stepped into the situation as such at the onset i think i'd be past it by now.

Also we had had a year of getting to now one another and talking about what would be in the future and stuff.....ii knew we would not be monogamous...i wouldn't have been with him if that were the case....but....

i still think of the band-aid analogy....

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 36

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 12:30:53 PM

charlotte12

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

Also we had had a year of getting to now one another and talking about what would be in the future and stuff.....ii knew we would not be monogamous...i wouldn't have been with him if that were the case....but....

I think this is a statement slightly different than what i got from your previous posts. It's one thing to have to adapt to where one sleeps or how one dresses. If you feel that the reasons you decided to enter into the relationship in the beginning are no longer true or were not communicated properly then that is concerning and has less to do with TPE in my mind then with initial compatibility and communication. I have dealt with a similar thought (doubts about whether i would have decided to enter into a relationship if i had known something i was not yet aware of) and it is for me a feeling of a breach of trust that can be very hard to move past.

However, it's also true that when forced to do something that i would not chose to do on my own i can find that i actually do enjoy it. But that's where the initial foundation of trust that LA mentioned needs to be built.

_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

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Post #: 37

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 12:46:29 PM

BeingChewsie

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Quick reply:

The thing about total is that its "total" in the moment, it would take a lifetime or more to completely re-shape her/his every belief system to your desired form and change the how of their decision making processes. Total changes and evolves over time..What was total to us 5 years ago has vastly expanded over the additional years and 5 years from now will be completely different from now.

_____________________________

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~Ron and Hup

(in reply to charlotte12)

Post #: 38

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 1:13:40 PM

daddyncherry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlotte12

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

Also we had had a year of getting to now one another and talking about what would be in the future and stuff.....ii knew we would not be monogamous...i wouldn't have been with him if that were the case....but....

I think this is a statement slightly different than what i got from your previous posts. It's one thing to have to adapt to where one sleeps or how one dresses. If you feel that the reasons you decided to enter into the relationship in the beginning are no longer true or were not communicated properly then that is concerning and has less to do with TPE in my mind then with initial compatibility and communication. I have dealt with a similar thought (doubts about whether i would have decided to enter into a relationship if i had known something i was not yet aware of) and it is for me a feeling of a breach of trust that can be very hard to move past.

However, it's also true that when forced to do something that i would not chose to do on my own i can find that i actually do enjoy it. But that's where the initial foundation of trust that LA mentioned needs to be built.

i think i'm really bad today about verbalizing, so please forgive me if i just seem a bit thick or dense in my explanations.

The intial thought that brought me to post had to do with Masters being with others as well as sharing the slave with others.....then seeing the stuff i copied and posted in red in the OP on a different thread....i thought i'd just expand the actual topic to include more than just being with others....More generalized.

What i was trying to get at in the statement that you quoted was, i knew full well that we weren't to be monogamous, it wasn't sprung on me later...it was something i sought and accepted from the start.

my issue has been that with time, the thought of my Daddy being with another without my pre-knowledge is a harder thing to swallow. Where if he had enacted that in the very beginning i would've just accepted it, and expected it (because i just assumed that it would be a given). Now....as time has gone on....i find i need more baby steps....more need for security, reassurance etc than if he had just gone straight to it from the start

When i left my vanilla life i knew i wanted to be with a Dom who was experienced, because i didn't want to try to turn vanilla into BDSM (again)..Why? Because i didn't want things to be established, ways of being with one another on a more equalized playing field and then have to change up mid-way through.....The same thoughts are what make me more wired to jumping in with both feet...Granted, what is in my mind and the reality may be dfferent and maybe that is why my Daddy knew to go more slowly.

Do i make sense? i hope so.

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to charlotte12)

Post #: 39

RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in? - 11/6/2007 1:33:02 PM

charlotte12

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Joined: 5/9/2006
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Ah yes that makes much more sense. Thank you for clarifying. I did not mean to jump in and question your relationship.

I think the last thing you said pretty much answers your own question though. "Granted, what is in my mind and the reality may be dfferent and maybe that is why my Daddy knew to go more slowly." When i find myself trying to figure out what the best way for my Master to make me his slave is i end up driving myself to a huge crying fest (in which i always forget the tissues.) It is certainly an interesting question to consider and you have gotten me thinking. But i would say that just as a child could not know how to raise themselves so a slave cannot know how to "become a slave." Of course the Dom or Master may (and probably will) make a few mistakes but none of us can know the "what ifs." So if you're approaching this from an interesting discussion to gain insight i say great question! I guess my compassionate "care-giver" instincts kicked in and i wanted to remind you that if you are trying to figure out what could have been you will drive yourself crazy. Forgive me if i have come across as assuming some self-doubt on your part that wasn't there. Sometimes i read too much of myself into other people's posts.

*warm wishes and a thank you for the thread that has gotten me thinking all day (work is boring so i needed a distraction)

Hischarlotte

_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 40

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: TPE- Going slowly? Or jumping right in?

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