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Intimacy - 8/5/2005 7:51:58 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

I don't kid myself that my framework for BDSM (my sole gateway to intimacy in eros) is the way.

Plenty of people want kinky fun. Plenty of people want to satisfy their urges and stay as far the fuck away from intimacy as possible. Some people find intimacy conventionally and do this in an adjunct fashion.

But for me, this is all about intimacy ("so close that your hand over my chest is my hand, / so close they are your eyes I shut when I sleep.") I can't be intimate with a woman, in the sense of emotional intimacy (the hard part for men) without PE, without her surrender and suffering under me, for me, by my hand. Conversely, the only kind of woman who I can be intimate with in this manner seeks the same: she can only give herself in intimacy, without guards, to a man who will conquer and make her suffer.

I'm curious as to how many other people here have the same framework - how many of you find this idea of BDSM as a gateway to love resonant, and how many think it is a crock of shit?

quote:

I do not love you as if you were brine-rose, topaz,
or barbed carnations thrown off by the fire.
I love you as certain hidden things are loved,
secretly, between night and soul.

I love you like the flower-less plant
carrying inside itself the light of those flowers,
and, graced by your love, a fierce perfume
risen from earth, is alive, concealed in my flesh.

I love you without knowing how, whence, when.
I love you truly, without doubts, without pride,
I love you so, and know, no other way to love,

none but this mode of neither You nor I,
so close that your hand over my chest is my hand,
so close they are your eyes I shut when I sleep.

I have only wanted one thing: this mode of neither her not I, so close that it is her eyes I shut when I sleep.

< Message edited by Faramir -- 8/5/2005 8:42:31 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 8:38:24 AM

itzelwing

Posts: 37
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

Interesting thoughts Faramir.

From some of your other posts, I'd have to say our styles differ in several ways, but in this one I have to agree.

I can enjoy some casual play, especially when I get to let my sadist side out to romp. It's like slam dancing... you throw your energy out into the crowd solely for the joy of letting it all hang out.

But nothing is as fulfilling as the closeness of total power exchange that I get only with my Kat... of pulling her energy into myself then feeding it back to her until it's all one endless loop of passion and heat and lust.

At those moments when she's completely given over to me, absolute trust and unconditional surrender... I feel like I can breathe her in until she exists inside of me.

And every time I touch her then, I feel my own soul travel through the conduit of my flesh and enter into hers.

Those are the moments I live for.

_____________________________

Master, Friend, and Lover of ItzKat

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 2

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 8:59:12 AM

ChereeAmoor

Posts: 185
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline

For us it is just a lot of fun - it neither adds to nor detracts from our intimacy. We have been together a long time, though, and maybe that has something to do with it. So many conversations, so many situations, and still not bored with each other.....there is always more to explore. Intimacy born of trust allows that - sex not always does. I am always a little surprised at people who just want to rub bellies, but what works for them is fine.

(in reply to itzelwing)

Post #: 3

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 9:07:13 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

An M/s relationships is what will fulfill me in my primary relationship, however that doesn't necessarily have to involve intimacy or love.

I can be utterly owned by someone and not need them to love me.

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 4

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 9:15:21 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

Though I doubt I would use the words crock of shit, I am certainly in the no-love-for-me-thanks section of the BDSM pool.

For me, it is an intense, inate, and undeniable need, that simply has nothing to do with romantic love. Romantioc love is another intense, inate, and undeniable need (as is, at times, sushi *wink*), that has nothing to do with BDSM.

For some reasons, my wires just don't cross on those two needs. In fact, I don't feel satisfied in either need when I try to mix them into one person.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 5

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 9:27:51 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
For me, it is an intense, inate, and undeniable need, that simply has nothing to do with romantic love. Romantioc love is another intense, inate, and undeniable need (as is, at times, sushi *wink*), that has nothing to do with BDSM.Taggard

Very well said.

I'm feeling the same as you and I think it's a backlash to the theme of threads lately that seem to be about being in love or some romantic traditional relationship.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 6

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 9:59:53 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
For me, it is an intense, inate, and undeniable need, that simply has nothing to do with romantic love. Romantioc love is another intense, inate, and undeniable need (as is, at times, sushi *wink*), that has nothing to do with BDSM.Taggard

Very well said.

I'm feeling the same as you and I think it's a backlash to the theme of threads lately that seem to be about being in love or some romantic traditional relationship.

Your feeling that BDSM and eros are unrelated is a backlash? Rather than being native to you - your own innate feeling, this is rather responsive, a need to differntiate yourself in response to others?

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 7

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 11:08:12 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

Your feeling that BDSM and eros are unrelated is a backlash? Rather than being native to you - your own innate feeling, this is rather responsive, a need to differntiate yourself in response to others?

No, I feel the sudden "no love for me thanks" surge of feelings is a backlash. My actual feelings are that love is not the foundation for or necessary to be a slave to the owner. How bluntly I state this, how often I state it, how deeply I respond to that depends on the particular moment.

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 8

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 12:17:37 PM

zaynab

Posts: 377
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

I believe I can relate to exactly what you are saying, Faramir.

There was one person in my past, where we had the relationship you described.
On my side of the relationship, I mean.

I believe this described his side of the relationship as well, but obviously, I really can't say that for sure.

What I find interesting, is that after 12 years of being his... I ended up hating him with all of my heart, mind and soul. I still do and I always will.

I am not making a connection to how that relationship ended, versus what you are describing... that would be asinine, of course. Just thought you might be interested to know how that type of abandonment of self, mixed with the pleasure of receiving ALL of the pain he needed to give me... ended.

I know you are expert at verbal thrusting to cut when you want to... please do not do that to me about my response. Thanks. ~ zay

< Message edited by zaynab -- 8/5/2005 12:18:38 PM >

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 9

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 5:55:30 PM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zaynab
I know you are expert at verbal thrusting to cut when you want to... please do not do that to me about my response. Thanks. ~ zay

Never in life dear. I am incapable of a thrust - only counter-thrust.

(in reply to zaynab)

Post #: 10

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 6:07:33 PM

Fidelity

Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline

I need nothing more than an open door to acheive intimacy. I'm really not so much a conqueror, as a seducer. Play and power are the icing on my cake-but they never HAD to be the cake in itself, for this to work for me.

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 11

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 6:35:19 PM

MstrHellsFury

Posts: 388
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

very interesting perspective...then again some need only wave a flogger and make another shudder and completely decend into the world they seek...

Fury

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 12

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 7:15:01 PM

kisshou

Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

why did you have to change from intimacy to love in the last sentence?

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 13

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 7:48:58 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Good question.

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 14

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 7:59:42 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

BDSM brings more love, intimacy, trust, and controll to the relationship that liltxsubby and I have. With out BDSM, I don't think the two of us would have made it this far together.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 15

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 8:29:59 PM

Fndrywmn

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

I totally understand the powerful connection between BDSM and intimacy.

I served my first Master 15 years. I was married and totally submitted to my husband out of religious devotion. It was my joy and my honor to serve him. Unfortunately, even though the law allowed him to have me in any way he chose, he could never bear to hurt me. It was an agony for me until the relationship ended.

When the relationship with my current Master became intimate, I knew from the first kiss that things were different. He kissed me as if he owned me, forcefully and shamelessly. I cried tears of relief when he held me down and took me, and even fighting for all I was worth, I couldn't win. I was finally free. Even though it has been years since that first stinging slap, I cannot give words to the feeling he evoked when he slapped my face with an open hand, then wiped my tears. That I have found in one man someone who can bring me suffering and help me bear it touches me in a deep place in my soul. To hear him whisper in my ear to for me to control my mind and my breathing while he increases the force he is using to make me suffer cycles an energy and a bond between us that is almost beyond definition. Now, long after the need to fight against him to be sure of his strength has passed, it gives me joy to hear him speak of the power he feels as he feels my muscles tense and my body squirm under his hand or his weight. Despite the overreaction on these boards to the "L" word, the deep and abiding love we share is expressed in the exchange of power.

It broadens in that I am no less his when I am making a sandwich, washing our sheets, or telling him a joke...the energy continues to flow in loving service and kindness. It's our shared joy. Together we generate the energy that can overflow to the raising of children, doing acts of kindness and bonding with friends.

There is something in your writing that makes me happy to know that we are not the only crazy people out there and that you understand that this is not a game we play, or just kinky sex, but a life we choose.

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 16

RE: Intimacy - 8/5/2005 10:29:57 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

I only speak for myself, and keeping in mind that there is much I am still learning and will continue to learn until I decide its time to leave this mortal coil, everything I do with a slave has some intimacy. When she kneels and begs a collar is a moment of joy and something touched the hearts. When she kneels to be collared and even when after her collaring she is hauled off to receive her mandatory flogging has both poignancy and joy. These are intimate moments. Whilst I will probably have the use of subs for play partners (especially as part of my learning process under the eye of a mentor) there will be intimacy.. The bonds of intimacy, love, trust and respect between myself and a kajira in my collar and between her and my wife will grow deeper as time goes on….

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Fndrywmn)

Post #: 17

RE: Intimacy - 8/6/2005 2:05:17 AM

themischievous1

Posts: 151
Joined: 4/3/2005
From: San Antonio, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

But for me, this is all about intimacy ("so close that your hand over my chest is my hand, / so close they are your eyes I shut when I sleep.") I can't be intimate with a woman, in the sense of emotional intimacy (the hard part for men) without PE, without her surrender and suffering under me, for me, by my hand. Conversely, the only kind of woman who I can be intimate with in this manner seeks the same: she can only give herself in intimacy, without guards, to a man who will conquer and make her suffer.

I'm curious as to how many other people here have the same framework - how many of you find this idea of BDSM as a gateway to love resonant, and how many think it is a crock of shit?

Hi Faramir,

Sex without intimacy and love is boring. I would rather peruse the forums. BDSM without intimacy and love, without something of depth between us is equally uninteresting and just feels wrong. Power exchange is the most thrilling for me but I can't take it seriously without trust, intimacy, and feeling as if I belong to the one I'm submitting to. I have no desire to submit without the feeling you're referencing. I think you describe this feeling perfectly in your above statement. Without it BDSM becomes a show or a game to play at for me, shallow, meaningless, and hollow.

I don't see the point of physical suffering without the bond being there. The experience of taking physical pain to please the one I'm devoted to is a major endorphine rush as well as strangely satisfying on many levels. It would, however, mean nothing without feeling owned. Being conquered and truly loved makes me feel owned and that inspires my desire to submit and suffer, though the degree of suffering I'll endure is dependent on so many things.

mischie

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 18

RE: Intimacy - 8/6/2005 6:11:20 AM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

I need nothing more than an open door to acheive intimacy. I'm really not so much a conqueror, as a seducer. Play and power are the icing on my cake-but they never HAD to be the cake in itself, for this to work for me. Fidelity

Fidelity..Your post made me very sad. If You ever need/want to talk about this, drop me an email.

pinkpleasures

_____________________________

(in reply to themischievous1)

Post #: 19

RE: Intimacy - 8/6/2005 6:30:48 AM

kisshou

Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: themischievous1

Sex without intimacy and love is boring.

Without getting graphic I will just state this has not been my experience at all :)

(in reply to themischievous1)

Post #: 20

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