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Got your thinking cap on? - 11/6/2007 10:48:15 PM   
mya75


Posts: 300
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		 I just want to take a second to see if any sub/slave's find this misleading/misrepresenting in profiles....:A Dominant states he is seeking a strong 24/7 lifestyle based relationship his lists of people in which he seeks includes *Submissive Transexuals*Submissive Women*  He also states that he is *Straight*
Definition of Transexual is as follows:A person who has gone through a surgical procedure to become a member of the opposite sex
 
The reason I ask the above question is because I recently got into a heated debate with a friend regarding this and my friend stated the Dominant was bisexual..but I begged to differ. Only because I believe surgery does not change our *sex* It only alters our look and functions and can change gender if there are personality traits as well. So in my opinion if the Dominant had gotten with a transexual *natural born woman* who now after surgery has a penis. I would still consider the Dom straight....Now where it gets tricky ..and baffling is when you look at the definitions for Gender,Homosexual and Sex (not intercourse but the definition regarding biological make-up)and if you think about what and who actually decides what a woman or mans traits should be in order to make them gender *correct* according to society..
Have fun with this thread its more of a brainteaser than anything and something to get your mind working...

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"A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise person learns from the mistakes of others."
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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/6/2007 11:03:58 PM   
mya75


Posts: 300
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		I guess it would help for me to define
Sex - Biological make up
Gender - What we identify with and have traits as
Homosexual - Person attracted to someone of the same gender
**if you find different definitions please share**

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"A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/6/2007 11:06:29 PM   
Shawn1066


Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		I'm of the belief you can't change your sex.  You're born with your sex, and that doesn't really changes.  Your gender doesn't always fit your sex.  You can, of course, change your body to better fit your gender. 

In the case of this story, I would say that the Dom is bi...simply because he is attracted to a person of the same sex as him, even if she has a different gender.

It's confusing, and by no means to I consider my opinion to be the absolute truth. :-p

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/6/2007 11:06:37 PM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		to my mind...a person who has gone to the lengths of complete gender reassignment surgery has EARNED the title of their chosen gender.  DNA-wise, a male-to-female transexual might be still male...but appearance-and-function-wise, that puppy squats to pee, not lifts its leg.  (sorry, havent colored lately and my southern roots are showing!)

its all about the plumbing, to me.  whether placed there by the gods, or rendered by the skilled hand of the surgeon...that person is who they are as THEY define. 

kitten's opinion, your milage may vary, all standard disclaimers applied.

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/6/2007 11:19:08 PM   
mya75


Posts: 300
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		Well stated..(adoracat)...I think America needs and overhaul of all forms and documents we have to fill out ...you ever notice they vary from saying Gender & Sex and then you have to check a box ....when in fact they dont mean the same thing but are used to make the same reports statistically ........Drivers License,SS,School Forms etc....

< Message edited by mya75 -- 11/6/2007 11:20:46 PM >

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"A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/6/2007 11:26:07 PM   
mya75


Posts: 300
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

Your gender doesn't always fit your sex. 


LOL now I get to have you think some more ...so is a woman gay if her partner is *male by sex* and identifies as a female in gender?

Just interested to hear your thought it gets me thinking as well

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"A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/6/2007 11:33:29 PM   
Shawn1066


Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		No,not by my definition.  Sexuality is based on one's sex, by my view.  So, two lesbians would not be considered "straight" if one of them fit into the "male" gender and one fitted into the "female" gender.

The Radical Feminist in me would go so far as to say that gender is a make believe term, since very few people fit perfectly into traditional gender roles and they're mostly made to subjegate women(in the unfun way, female submissives :-p).

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/6/2007 11:39:07 PM   
mya75


Posts: 300
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		I do agree it is a very make believe term especially since we are being forced to let someone else define what makes us male or female in gender.....

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~**Mya Papaya**~

"A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/6/2007 11:53:08 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		The dom can best decide if he is straight or not.  If he says he is straight, I'd take him at his word unless we spoke further and I learned otherwise.  Also, I should note not everyone who dominates someone has sex with them.  My Master has dominated a male submissive before without ever having sexual intentions at all.  He has no bisexual inclinations whatsoever.

As for transgenders, I believe they have indeed made the conversion from one sex/gender to the other.  But I would want to know this about the person up front before involving myself (I met someone before who didn't think I needed to know this information).

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 12:05:38 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		So much of gender is based entirely on cultural stereotypes.......that I can't even answer the question.

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 12:06:54 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		~FR~

This is one of those 'it depends' sorts of answers. It depends on whether or not you believe that one's sex is determined by what lies above the neck or below the waist.

Celeste

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 12:37:31 AM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

mya75 wrote: I just want to take a second to see if any sub/slave's find this misleading/misrepresenting in profiles....:A Dominant states he is seeking a strong 24/7 lifestyle based relationship his lists of people in which he seeks includes *Submissive Transexuals*Submissive Women* He also states that he is *Straight*

*shrug* Why get hung up on the labels?  He probably described himself as straight because he's not interested in men.

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 12:50:06 AM   
mya75


Posts: 300
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beeble

quote:

mya75 wrote: I just want to take a second to see if any sub/slave's find this misleading/misrepresenting in profiles....:A Dominant states he is seeking a strong 24/7 lifestyle based relationship his lists of people in which he seeks includes *Submissive Transexuals*Submissive Women* He also states that he is *Straight*

*shrug* Why get hung up on the labels? Actually the thread is based on societys perceptions and definitions moreso than labels...  He probably described himself as straight because he's not interested in men. Isnt that what being "straight' is?



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~**Mya Papaya**~

"A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 1:57:10 AM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		This reminds me of a childhood friend of my daughter's who grew up and changed her name to Chaz and started living as a male, in a relationship with a gay man.  I have no idea if he/she was considering having surgery, but I know he/she considered his/herself to be a gay man. 

I don't worry too much about labels as I think most of us are on a continuum somewhere.  Of course I want to know what someone's doing if I am involved with them (and I tend to avoid profiles in which a man is also seeking transexuals or who identifies as bisexual), which seems to be more the issue you are considering rather than what to label it.

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 2:42:08 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		If he claims to be straight, it's not my responsibility or place to deny him that.
It would completely depend on how he defines ses vs. gender really.
 
The statement - *Submissive Transexuals*Submissive Women* is too vague.  My question is what does it identify?  It doesn't clearly state if its m2f or f2m - it simply implies he is open minded and indicates he is straight and also seeks submissive women.  Being interested in submissive trans doesn't make him any more homosexual than it does a straight ethical sadist who enjoys seeing males endure pain.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 3:25:42 AM   
MidnightMaiden


Posts: 142
Joined: 10/22/2007
Status: offline 		I guess I am old school.  If I have to put a condom on a penis, regardless of how the owner gender identifies, I am having hetero sex... albeit a little weird and kinky in the gender blurred way, but still hetero.  

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 3:27:20 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		If someone says they are straight, they are probably straight.  That the person being discussed is interested in only people who currently do not have male genitalia and aren't growing a thicker beard than himself is not ours to question.  He doesn't care what equipment they were born with, just the current working equipment.  Stock-v-Custom some people simply don't care.  As others have pointed out, perhaps this person isn't specifically looking for a sexual partner so it wouldn't make him bi or gay just because his play might involve someone who was born with male genitalia.  The profile is not misleading, in my opinion.

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 3:46:40 AM   
plushiecat


Posts: 109
Joined: 12/18/2005
Status: offline 		I've had a couple friends who were TG.  I think they stated it best when they said 'sex is what you look like, gender is who you are.'  TGs can now go and get their sex changed to look like what they feel their gender already is.

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 3:52:24 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

This reminds me of a childhood friend of my daughter's who grew up and changed her name to Chaz and started living as a male, in a relationship with a gay man.  I have no idea if he/she was considering having surgery, but I know he/she considered his/herself to be a gay man. 


I am at an age at which not much surprises me. ~This~ I have never seen before and is such a delicious thought I can hardly keep my eyes off it (and sure won't keep my head out of it today). A woman living her life as a gay man. Having sex with men. As a gay man. That's unbelievably creative. I just love it.

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RE: Got your thinking cap on? - 11/7/2007 5:22:25 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think a man who would accept a TG sub is necessarily bi just because the TG still has or did have male parts. Not only do you have the controversy of whether the TG is really male or female, but you have to define what is "bi". For some it's a very specific understood open interest in having sex or other intimate contact with members of both sexes. For others it's as little as "OMG- I accidentally touched his penis and it made me a little hard-does that mean I'm gay?"

The more open people are about gender and sexuality the more the lines blur and the more fun it is.

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