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RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 11:45:59 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		regarding this:
Can you show me where I ever said anything close to,"the president has nothing much to do with it other than pretty clawless begging and bitching and hoping and praying and wishing.......... ".  Why do you have to make up stuff to argue with me, I never said anything close to that, or implied it. 

that was an overstatement on my part concerning the other thread, wholly unrelated to this one, but relating to budgets. I will let the thread pass into history.

Truthoutorgs unbiased analysis not withstanding, the Dems don't have to pass a defense bill.  They did not have to pass the previous CRs or Supplementals we are operating on now.  And could shut down the war. 

Not true regarding the shut down. The CRs and supplementals were done some time ago before the elections, or just after... I believe.  The Supplemental and the Budget bill is where the fight will be.  That just got under discussion after Petraeus in mid September, it was waiting for that.  I dont think the bill actually goes forward for quite some time. The CR and supplementals from before are holding out, I know Bush is asking for one now (a supplemental) but he is gonna sit in his dirty diapers for awhile and this is going to stew for awhile:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071108/ap_on_go_co/congress_veto
note the storm clouds building on the horizon:

Democrats are sure to remind such Republicans of their rejection of Bush's budgetary concerns when debate turns to several spending bills he also vows to veto.
Democrats, frustrated by their inability to force Bush's hand on Iraq and other matters, clearly enjoyed their victory Thursday. Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., said the message to the White House was, "you can't keep rolling over us like this."


Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/9/2007 11:46:46 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 11:49:29 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Why dont they cut it off?



You make the comment that it would be political suicide.

I would be interested in reading your source materials that prove this statement.

I personally think they dont attempt to cut funding for the war, if they can muster enough votes to do so, because it would be vetoed by AnencephalyBoy. 

Why pick a fight one cannot win?

After it gets vetoed, they go back in to work, time drags on, the fiscal year comes to a close, Congress agrees on CRs to keep the country afloat into the new year.  The war keeps being funded into the new year, with emergency appropriations being put through as emergencies pop up.

Sinergy

p.s.  It was amusing to watch Waxman question Condoleeza Rice about the war.  He asked the tough questions like "Where did the 7 billion dollars you shipped to Iraq (out of $13 billion) which you cannot account for go?" 
Rice used her Bush Administration Cloak of Denial and Unaccountability to defend against the nasty question of a congressperson in charge of oversight doing his job.  I imagine this is something the Republicans didnt actually realize was part of their job.

p.p.s.  Your motivations to try picking a fight with me, luckydog1, while marginally amusing, are not really part of the topic of this thread.  Feel free to start a separate thread to discuss your issues.


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RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 11:55:50 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

Sinergy:
After it gets vetoed, they go back in to work, time drags on, the fiscal year comes to a close, Congress agrees on CRs to keep the country afloat into the new year.  The war keeps being funded into the new year, with emergency appropriations being put through as emergencies pop up.


And allows for the next president to come up with a plan to flush this fucking Iraq toilet.

Ron 

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 12:11:06 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

Sinergy:
After it gets vetoed, they go back in to work, time drags on, the fiscal year comes to a close, Congress agrees on CRs to keep the country afloat into the new year.  The war keeps being funded into the new year, with emergency appropriations being put through as emergencies pop up.


And allows for the next president to come up with a plan to flush this fucking Iraq toilet.

Ron 


The down side to that is the non-Republican who gets elected will get trashed and blamed for all of it.

One thing that the last six years have taught me is that most Republicans seem to be incapable of remembering
their actions, their statements, or pretty much anything else.

The current administration runs on a 90 day focus.  Anything inside the 90 days (their memory window) must be denied, and anything outside the 90 days is somebody else's fault.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 12:14:11 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Democrats are sure to remind such Republicans of their rejection of Bush's budgetary concerns when debate turns to several spending bills he also vows to veto.


Ron,
Did you take a look at the details regarding this over-ride?
quote:

The bill funds hundreds of Army Corps of Engineers projects, such as dams, sewage plants and beach restoration, that are important to local communities and their representatives. It also includes money for the hurricane-hit Gulf Coast and for Florida Everglades restoration efforts.

The bill would authorize the construction of navigation improvements for the Upper Mississippi River, at an estimated federal cost of $1.9 billion, and an ecosystem restoration project for the Upper Mississippi costing $1.7 billion. The Indian River Lagoon project in the Florida Everglades would be funded at about $700 million. The bill calls for an independent peer review process of all Army Corps projects costing $45 million or more, a bid to cut down on wasteful spending

This Bill should be signed with BBQ sauce. Passing this was payment for campaign contributions and placating constituents with "bridge to nowhere" projects. When these projects break ground those voting for them will be right there for the photo op showing how much Washington money they brought back to the district. And fools will be right there cheering and smiling like extras from 'Deliverance', while nearly 1/2 of their earnings go to pay taxes.

Oh, of course we don't have a 50% tax base in the US - right? Remember after the first grab at your paycheck your net pay still pays tax with most every retail purchase, every gallon of gas, and for the residential tax for the privilege of home "ownership". In quotes because if you think you "own" you house - stop paying the taxes and find out how quickly that "ownership" label was misapplied. Those tax payments come from your after tax net.

The commonality of those preaching for the need for more and higher taxation is that they share the fact that they don't get a "paycheck". At least in the way most of us receive income. Warren Buffet commented that he paid less income tax than his secretary. Well, guess what, Mr. Buffet doesn't take much of an "income" from his businesses. Having a few Billion in assets and a thousand or so 'corporate' identities with which to make purchases makes taking a salary moot; but it makes for good "buzz-word" press.

YEAH! An override! Start the celebrations? What was it we, the people outside the areas affected by these pork barrel projects, won again?

Buy the smoke and mirrors if you like, but it still only takes a simple majority to fund or NOT to fund anything - like the war in Iraq. But then, the leading candidates from both parties say that won't happen overnight regardless of who wins.

The choice in 2008 appears to be between a Senator from New York State or the former mayor of New York City. Reminds me of the last election where we had a choice between two Yale graduates and Skull & Crossbones fraternity brothers. Amazing, in a country of over 300 Million, the similarities between the choice we are given to lead us.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 12:23:19 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Um --- I hear you, and indeed there is a vast amount of pork (it was bi-partisan) and all......

However; being from the state that spawns the mighty Mississippi, just about an hour away from where I currently type, and the 35W bridge that spans the mighty Mississippi having tipped over, and this bill having some amount of money in it in which to help put up a new one, and the general disrepair of the upper waterway----which takes in 7/8ths of the state of Minnesota, all of Iowa, and into St Louis Missouri---------well, I gotta tell ya, I am for it, even if it is the ACE that is going to do the duty. I am kinda of the opinion that it ain't ALL pork.

Ron 

When your state burned or when your state slid into the fuckin ocean, did I tell you to work it the fuck out for yourself? 

I understand your disgruntlement Merc, but I cannot commisserate with you.  Far better than sending the money in to Democratize Iraq.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/9/2007 12:25:52 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 12:38:11 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

When your state burned or when your state slid into the fuckin ocean, did I tell you to work it the fuck out for yourself? 

I understand your disgruntlement Merc, but I cannot commisserate with you.  Far better than sending the money in to Democratize Iraq.

Ron,
If the money to "Democratize Iraq" was being used I have no problem with it. However, the same exact people who overrode this veto by such a huge majority could NOT form a simple majority to END that funding. THAT is my point. It really isn't complicated, and this activity proves it can be done - at least when the "pork" (which is us taxpayers by the way) is so willing to be cooked and celebrates like 'Shmoo's' as they are eaten.

I guess you have the victory and change you voted for last November. This landmark veto override to spend more money is the exact platform that was sold last November - right? WOW!


PS - If the 'Shmoo' reference is too dated: http://www.lil-abner.com/shmoo.html

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 12:40:00 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOL......I know what a shmoo is, Lil Abner was a favorite growing up.

Jubilation T. Cornpone 

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 1:20:21 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOL......I know what a shmoo is, Lil Abner was a favorite growing up.

Jubilation T. Cornpone 


ME TOO!

Hey Ron,

Was thinking, after visiting that website, would a shmoo be the "perfect" slave?
quote:

According to Shmoo legend, the lovable creature laid eggs, gave milk and died of sheer ecstasy when looked at with hunger. The Shmoo loved to be eaten and tasted like any food desired. Anything that delighted people delighted a Shmoo. Fry a Shmoo and it came out chicken. Broil it and it came out steak. Shmoo eyes made terrific suspender buttons. The hide of the Shmoo if cut thin made fine leather and if cut thick made the best lumber. Shmoo whiskers made splendid toothpicks. The Shmoo satisfied all the world's wants. You could never run out of Shmoon (plural of Shmoo) because they multiplied at such an incredible rate. The Shmoo believed that the only way to happiness was to bring happiness to others. Li'l Abner discovered Shmoos when he ventured into the forbidden Valley of the Shmoon, against the frantic protestations of Ol' Man Mose. "Shmoos," he warned, "is the greatest menace to hoomanity th' world has evah known." "Thass becuz they is so bad, huh?" asked Li'l Abner. "No, stupid," answered Mose, hurling one of life's profoundest paradoxes at Li'l Abner. "It's because they're so good!"

Ironically, the lovable and selfless Shmoos ultimately brought misery to humankind because people with a limitless supply of self-sacrificing Shmoos stopped working and society broke down. Seen at first as a boon to humankind, they were ultimately hunted down and exterminated to preserve the status quo. (Thought extinct after the 1948 adventure, one Shmoo always seemed to escape to Dogpatch's Valley of the Shmoon to form a new colony and a later plot revival by Capp).
Or, keeping it on topic, would 'shmoon' (I learned today that's plural for shmoo) represent a Democratic or Republican "ideals"?

Yours,
General Bullmoose
"What's good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA!"

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 6:09:49 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


I personally think they dont attempt to cut funding for the war, if they can muster enough votes to do so, because it would be vetoed by AnencephalyBoy. 




           Please explain the how the President can veto legislation they simply refuse to pass?  The Democrats can end the Iraq War by mere inaction.  They are now ACTIVELY keeping us there.

       (But vote for them in '08, and they really might do it then...really)

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 10:52:21 PM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline 		~FR
 
My personal opinion is that he will go down
as the worst president ever.
And I say that hoping it never get's any worse,
because this is the worst so far peeps.
 
Missy.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 10:55:21 PM   
MzMia


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Status: offline

It is so bad now, I feel like I am watching a movie.
This can't be real.
When will it be over?

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RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 11:12:21 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


I personally think they dont attempt to cut funding for the war, if they can muster enough votes to do so, because it would be vetoed by AnencephalyBoy. 




          Please explain the how the President can veto legislation they simply refuse to pass?  The Democrats can end the Iraq War by mere inaction.  They are now ACTIVELY keeping us there.

      (But vote for them in '08, and they really might do it then...really)


Coming from someone who wants to keep us in Iraq,that`s a little selfserving.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/9/2007 11:41:37 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2007/05/23/funding_bushs_war_this_is_no_game.php

"President Bush forced Democrats to “fold,” the press reports. He vetoed the Iraq funding bill that set a deadline for getting U.S. troops out of the war. The Republican minority blocked any effort to overturn the veto. Now Congress is about to vote on a funding bill the president will accept, one that doesn’t offer a path out of the mess. Bush wins, the Republicans exult, the Democrats “flinch.”

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/9/2007 11:42:33 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/10/2007 6:02:20 AM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		Baby Bush is just like papa was.  He is so focused on what other countries are doing that he neglects what is going on here and what needs to be fixed here. 


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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: bush,now the least popular president,in history of ... - 11/10/2007 6:17:37 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:


"President Bush forced Democrats to “fold,” the press reports.


It's easy to blackmail Congress into doing what you want, when you're tapping all Internet and Telephone traffic.



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