RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill

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pahunkboy -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 7:29:53 AM)
isnt it interesting how a parrot can stand on its feet all its life. ? per haps humans can learn from a parrot.

Owner59 -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 7:31:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ameha21 if a woman wants to get preached to about morality, she'd go to church not a pharmacy. their job is to give patients the drugs they need. the morning after-pill is for emergencies such as rape or incest, thats it's primary purpose. it's not a quickie abortion for the town slut. if a pharmacist disagrees with that, it's their right. many people disagree with something about their job, but they still work. the pharmacy shouldn't be any different. What ignorance....

RCdc -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 7:38:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: ameha21 if a woman wants to get preached to about morality, she'd go to church not a pharmacy. their job is to give patients the drugs they need. the morning after-pill is for emergencies such as rape or incest, thats it's primary purpose. it's not a quickie abortion for the town slut. if a pharmacist disagrees with that, it's their right. many people disagree with something about their job, but they still work. the pharmacy shouldn't be any different. What ignorance.... Really - what am I missing here? As far as I am reading, he is saying that a pharmacist has a right to not like it, but should do their job, not use their own moral standards as a basis. What is ignorant about that? Meh - maybe it's all in the interpretation... I find this more of an ignorant statement than the above - quote: ORIGINAL: freyjasdottir If a pharmacy chooses not to stock a particular pill how is that different from the grocery store not carrying your perferred flavor of soda? If you do not wish to procreate keep your legs shut or get fixed those are the only sure ways to prevent it. I don't know about other places but around here if you spit you can here three drug stores without spinning around. the.dark.

possessedone -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 7:39:53 AM)
I work in a pharmacy. This is how the law actually works here. If there is more than one pharmacist on duty, and one pharmacist refuses to sell plan-b, the morning after pill, the other pharmacist may very well have no objection and continue the sale. If there is only one pharmacist on duty, at our pharmacy corporate has told the pharmacists, they must refer the paient to a pharmacy that will accomodate them. However this is not how it always works. The pill that is available here in the US is not the actual abortion pill, it is a triple strength birth control pill that prevents ovulation. Taken within 48 hours of unprotected sex it can prevent an egg from being fertilized. While it is true that some pharmacies don't carry it, most of them I have encountered that do not have it in stock have never sold it and it went out of date or they have had no requests for it and never ordered it. In my years as a pharmacy tech, I have dispensed plan-b one time, and that day my pharmacist had no problem signing off on the sale.

thornhappy -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 7:45:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Is this a good thing? And victims of rape,what shall they do? Go to another place,like Sen.Joe Lieberman(Conn), once suggested? And if another place is to far to go,what then? This is going to hurt women. I believe, but not entirely certain, that such pills are available to women at the hospital just following a rape. Not if it's a Catholic hospital. I'd hate to be in the patient's position. You've been raped, had all the exams, and then you have to go figure out where to get Plan B? thornhappy

sexypet -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 7:49:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 In cases of rape, hospitals have "rape kits" which the morning after pill is part of. So that's not really part of the debate. Not everyone goes to the hospital following sexual assault. i didn't. Neither did 2 of my friends.

DomMeinCT -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 7:49:43 AM)
I'd like to see this same problem applied to other avocations/industries and see if it makes any difference to people. What if a fireman refused to work at a fire at a business for which he had a moral objection? What if the driver of a (public or private) ambulance company refused to answer a call at the home of someone whose religion he despised?

Owner59 -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 7:51:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freyjasdottir If a pharmacy chooses not to stock a particular pill how is that different from the grocery store not carrying your perferred flavor of soda? If you do not wish to procreate keep your legs shut or get fixed those are the only sure ways to prevent it. I don't know about other places but around here if you spit you can here three drug stores without spinning around. Again,what ignorance.... They are part of the medical system.They aren`t a fucking grocery store. I`m amused be folks who insert their their own morality,into this.The "moralists",who wave this off as only careless sluts,are clueless. Not everyone who needs Plan B, is the town slut,or a "leg spreader". What,because you know nothing of incest and child abuse,you don`t weight that in?Sounds like it`s not even on the radar screen,for some. Because your only experience, is w/ sluts and "leg-spreaders",you can`t see any deeper than your own POV?

cyberdude611 -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 8:11:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Don't forget people, the Republican nutjobs are the same ones who are preventing public funding for the vaccine against HPV, the virus that causes uterine cancer. Why? Because they hope that the threat of cancer will keep kids from having sex. It is the high tech method of stoning women to death. So when you hear them wringing their hands over things like not wanting the day after pill because it might make "incest and abuse" harder to find, realize they will say ANYTHING, do ANYTHING to return us to the dark ages of back alley abortions. Not entirely true.. earlier this year the governor of Texas (a Republican) wanted to make it mandatory for all girls entering 6th grade to be vaccinated for HPV. Many parents along with conservative groups started bitching and the state legislature halted the governor's executive order until at least 2011. Fear of STDs however has now become the core of abstinance education....even to the point of exaggeration and lies.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 8:54:05 AM)
Has the world stopped spinning? Cyberdude and I agreeing on something? Truth is there is a LOT we ALL could agree on but the name calling gets in the way. It sticks in my craw for example that I have been called traitor for saying Iraq would look like it does today BEFORE we invaded. I was called traitor for daring to question our "wartime" president. I of course have done my best to insult the other side and for better or worse I am pretty good at it. Frankly, I would prefer, and I think America would be better off, if we could return to the days when frank and open debate made our country stronger and our ideas better than the rest of the world.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 9:28:08 AM)
a few months ago, this slave ran across one of those cards on the shelf at a local pharmacy, like they have for the OTK cold medicines that they are regulating through the pharmacy counter these days, that read "Plan B". shelf price: $39.95. out of curiosity, this slave took it to the pharmacy counter and asked what the policy was regarding purchase. the pharmacy tech replied, "18 and over, it sells just like the other regulated OTK medicines. Under 18, one would have to produce a prescription for it, but it's not necessary for a parent or guardian to be present for purchase." it is this slave's position that the government, state or federal, has no business legislating the "morality/immorality"of ANY medicinal tool...be it from human-engineered contraceptive or mother nature's bounty.

Real0ne -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 9:41:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: freyjasdottir If a pharmacy chooses not to stock a particular pill how is that different from the grocery store not carrying your perferred flavor of soda? If you do not wish to procreate keep your legs shut or get fixed those are the only sure ways to prevent it. I don't know about other places but around here if you spit you can here three drug stores without spinning around. Again,what ignorance.... They are part of the medical system.They aren`t a fucking grocery store. I`m amused be folks who insert their their own morality,into this.The "moralists",who wave this off as only careless sluts,are clueless. Not everyone who needs Plan B, is the town slut,or a "leg spreader". What,because you know nothing of incest and child abuse,you don`t weight that in?Sounds like it`s not even on the radar screen,for some. Because your only experience, is w/ sluts and "leg-spreaders",you can`t see any deeper than your own POV? HUH? Pharmacies are a business and there are no laws stating what they have to stock on their shelves. Ignorance? Just like we passed and legalized abortion for ALL those poor helpless women who have been raped. Just look at all rape now days!: quote: Abortion Statistics The following is a list of useful abortion statistics as well as some facts on abortifacients. All abortion numbers are derived from pro-abortion sources courtesy of The Alan Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives. WORLDWIDE Number of abortions per year: Approximately 46 Million Number of abortions per day: Approximately 126,000 Where abortions occur: 78% of all abortions are obtained in developing countries and 22% occur in developed countries. Legality of abortion: About 26 million women obtain legal abortions each year, while an additional 20 million abortions are obtained in countries where it is restricted or prohibited by law. Abortion averages: Worldwide, the lifetime average is about 1 abortion per woman. © Copyright 1999-2000, The Alan Guttmacher Institute. (www.agi-usa.org) UNITED STATES Number of abortions per year: 1.37 Million (1996) Number of abortions per day: Approximately 3,700 Who's having abortions (age)? 52% of women obtaining abortions in the U.S. are younger than 25: Women aged 20-24 obtain 32% of all abortions; Teenagers obtain 20% and girls under 15 account for 1.2%. Who's having abortions (race)? While white women obtain 60% of all abortions, their abortion rate is well below that of minority women. Black women are more than 3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly 2 times as likely. Who's having abortions (marital status)? 64.4% of all abortions are performed on never-married women; Married women account for 18.4% of all abortions and divorced women obtain 9.4%. Who's having abortions (religion)? Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical". Who's having abortions (income)? Women with family incomes less than $15,000 obtain 28.7% of all abortions; Women with family incomes between $15,000 and $29,999 obtain 19.5%; Women with family incomes between $30,000 and $59,999 obtain 38.0%; Women with family incomes over $60,000 obtain 13.8%. Why women have abortions 1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient). At what gestational ages are abortions performed: 52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy. Likelihood of abortion: An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion. http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html a fucking epidemic of rape and incest! LMAO

mnottertail -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 9:43:12 AM)
well goddammit, if these pharmasists dont want to eat a morning after pill then they don't have to...........end of joke. Ron

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 11:17:07 AM)
This is all pretty simple for Me. Unfortunately the article (link) provided does not give Me enough information to completely understand the whole situation. But do you all see what is happening here...yet again? This is My take... If a pharmacist works for a drugstore or drug chain that keeps Plan B in stock and makes it available to their customers via precription, then it is up to the store or chain to determine policy. If you work for this store or chain and the policy is to sell this, then you sell it. Or you choose to work elsewhere. You don't file a law suit and run to the courts to make it all better. The store or chain also has the personal right to choose not to make this particular med available in their store. They can give information concerning where it is available, but it is not available in their store. If the pharmacist wants to dispense this, but it is the store's or the chain's policy to not dispense it, then it is not availalbe, regardless of the individual's feelings and the employee can continue to work there and refer customers to another place, or they can go work at the other place. I really get so tired of this legislation of morality. This is a moral problem for some. It is a personal choice. That choice does not extend to seeking protection via the law in order to not dispense a medication if their employer chooses to make it available. That choice also does not extend to forcing anyone to dispense a medication when they are already working somewhere that agrees with their morality, and then the governement (law) steps in and say "Too bad, so sad, but you have to dispense this if we say so". If your job says "do it", then you do it or leave. If your job says "we don't do this", then you accept it along with your paycheck and shut the "f**k up. What is wrong with everyone? If I walk into a convenience market to buy cigarettes, I really don't give a damn if the person ringing it up is terrified of cigarette smoke and feels strongly I shouldn't be smoking. They need to sell it to Me. It's legal! But I also do not have the right to walk into an organic market and pitch a bitch if I can't buy a pack of Marlboros on My way out the door! Post a damn notice that Plan B is not available at XYZ pharmacy but you can get your perscription filled at ABC drugstore. It is freedom to make a choice as to what is in your inventory. And that freedom is up to the PTB, whether any employee likes it or not. Note that the PTB is not the almighty government. Except that most let it be. Run to Nanny! THINK! Jeez! Edit: I only read the first few posts so I do not know if anyone else has covered this angle. As a personal aside, I would be opposed to dispensing this medication, but it is legal and store owners or chains have the right to make their own policy.

Marc2b -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 12:42:28 PM)
GoddessDustyGold pretty much stole my thunder, but I don’t mind too much. It’s nice to know that there is someone around here who actually understands the concept of freedom. That freedom means making personal choices, respecting (which is not the same as agreeing with) other’s choices, and most importantly – not expecting society to bend over backward and kiss it’s own ass in order to satisfy every whiners whim (in other words, accepting responsibility for the consequences of our choices). In a case like this it really is very simple folks. If the pharmacy owner(s) wants to sell the morning after pill, they can. If they don’t, they shouldn’t have to. It’s nobody’s business what their reasons are. If an employee objects to the pharmacy’s policy on the morning after pill, they are under no obligation to work there – they are not a slave after all. If they want that paycheck, then they’ll have to decide (their freedom of choice in other words) which is more important to them, their paycheck or their principles. DomMeinCT said: quote: What if the driver of a (public or private) ambulance company refused to answer a call at the home of someone whose religion he despised? In the case of a public ambulance, such a driver should be fired because the government has no business discriminating against it’s own citizens. If it is a private company then the private company’s rules are in play and that driver, just like the above mentioned pharmacy employee is bound to it if he wants to work there. I don’t think the analogy holds all that well, though. An ambulance company that discriminated wouldn’t last very long. I mean can you imagine? "Holier Than Thou Ambulance Service, what’s your emergency?" "Quick, I need an ambulance at 555 Any Street! I think my husband is having a heart attack!" "And what religion is your husband ma’am?" "What! What does that matter? Hurry! He’s having trouble breathing!" "I’m sorry ma’am, I need to know what religion he is." "We’re Catholic! What does it fucking matter, you bitch! He’s passed out, hurry! For the love of God, please hurry!" "I’m sorry ma’am, but being Catholic, neither of you actually love God. In fact you are both Hell bound sinners and we won’t dirty our hands with you. You’ll have to try another ambulance service. Have a nice day." Click... bzzzzzz... I don’t think such an ambulance service would last to long. P.S. to GoddessDustyGold: I just perverd your profile and for a woman of 99 years, I must say you are damn fine looking. I hope I can look that good when I’m 99.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 12:50:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 <nods> I hope so also. At time I heard Sen .Joe Lieberman ,say that rape victims could go to another hospital,he was running for office in Connecticut.There was a law passed(I think), where even hospitals could refuse Plan B/morning after pills,and he was defending that law. My point was,what if a girl/woman couldn`t make it,or go someplace else,to be treated?This is just wrong. Some can argue that anyone should be able to go somewhere else.Which is bull-shit. It`s the most vulnerable people (poor,incest victims,children,or anyone who can`t just go to another place),that will be affected. There is no doubt that women will be hurt by this.If you can`t provide medical services or medicines,get the fuck out of the business! I read an article last night where in 2004, I believe, hospitals in PA were required to stock and offer this pill to rape victims, unless it is a private/religiously affiliated hospital that doesn't believe in it. I am not educated enough about the county hospitals across this country but I believe county hospitals are not religiously affiliated, nor are they privately owned. Typically those who are most financially vulnerable are brought to county hospitals when harmed, unless of course they require a trauma center and the county hospital is not equipped for that. As for pharmacies, I believe they can stock what they feel makes sense for them to stock. I was in a situation where what I needed required a compound pharmacy, and in the entire Sacramento CA area, there are only two - one is just 30 minutes from my home, the other is up in Grass Valley, about 45 min to an hour away. If a drug is not in high enough demand and costs the pharmacy more to supply it than makes financial sense for them, odds are they won't supply it.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 1:00:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b DomMeinCT said: quote: What if the driver of a (public or private) ambulance company refused to answer a call at the home of someone whose religion he despised? In the case of a public ambulance, such a driver should be fired because the government has no business discriminating against it’s own citizens. If it is a private company then the private company’s rules are in play and that driver, just like the above mentioned pharmacy employee is bound to it if he wants to work there. I don’t think the analogy holds all that well, though. An ambulance company that discriminated wouldn’t last very long. I mean can you imagine?. Not so. Having worked for a private ambulance company that then went public (spent 7+ years there), I can tell you the company - public OR private - is bound by the County Emergency Medical Services (EMS) protocol. Audits are conducted regularly by the County and any deviation from standard protocol is taken extremely seriously, meaning the company can lose their contract with the county, be fined seriously high penalties, and even criminal action can be taken. Not that this has anything to do with the pill, but I needed to clarify this point. I've seen several posts now (including one of my own, in reference to an article I read), that state these pills are so irregularly requested from pharmacies that it doesn't make financial sense for them to stock it. But I haven't seen any opinions contrary to that particular mindset...?

AquaticSub -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 1:22:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 SEATTLE - A federal judge has suspended Washington state's requirement that pharmacists sell "morning-after" birth control pills, a victory for druggists who claim their moral objections to the drug are being bulldozed by the government. In an injunction signed Thursday, U.S. District Judge Ronald Leighton said pharmacists can refuse to sell the morning-after pill if they refer the customer to another nearby source. Pharmacists' employers also are protected by the order. The emergency contraception sold as Plan B is a high dose of a drug found in many regular birth-control pills. It can dramatically lower the risk of pregnancy if taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071109/ap_on_re_us/refusing_prescriptions If you are a man and want to work in a butcher shop, you shave your beard or wear a mask - regardless of your religion or moral objections. If you can not work on a certain day because of your religion, you find a job that lets you do that. This whole thing is absurd because it is people expecting their jobs to confirm to them. It a legal product - they are required to sell it as part of their job. If they can not bring themselves to do it, they need to find new jobs.

Marc2b -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 1:54:10 PM)
quote: Not so. Having worked for a private ambulance company that then went public (spent 7+ years there), I can tell you the company - public OR private - is bound by the County Emergency Medical Services (EMS) protocol. Audits are conducted regularly by the County and any deviation from standard protocol is taken extremely seriously, meaning the company can lose their contract with the county, be fined seriously high penalties, and even criminal action can be taken. I was speaking hypothetically. The question of what regulations an ambulance company has to conform to is another whole matter. Certainly, I would expect that most ambulance companies are required to not discriminate in order to get their licence but then we’re dealing with matters of life and death here – which is why I felt the analogy was not that good to begin with. The person coming into a pharmacy looking for a morning after pill isn’t in a life or death situation. They won’t keel over if they have to walk a few blocks to the next pharmacy. The guy having a heart attack, however... The question of where we draw the lines between personal freedom and public responsibility can be a delicate one but in this case it’s easy. I have no problem with the government requiring ambulance companies to not discriminate in who they treat.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Court rules that pharmacists can refuse morning after pill (11/9/2007 2:11:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b P.S. to GoddessDustyGold: I just perverd your profile and for a woman of 99 years, I must say you are damn fine looking. I hope I can look that good when I’m 99. And I'm a smoker! [;)] Actually, it is amazing how much less mail I get now that I don't fall into the preferred age parameters of so many profile surfers! End of quick hijack...

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