RE: Vanilla to Twisted Spectrum

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RE: Vanilla to Twisted Spectrum - 11/9/2007 4:04:55 PM

Padriag

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I find its never wise to attribute to much logic to human behavior. While there is always some reason or motivation for what people do, there is no guarantee it is rational. People are capable of doing the most peculiar of things, and yet to them their actions can seem entirely rational, while to others they seem bizarre. As I said before, I think what drives people to one extreme or the other revolves around attempts at self identification. Polar extremes are always the easiest to identify simply because they are closer to being "black and white". The middle ground is that nebulous grey area, harder to define, harder to identify with.

Let me put this another way. People want a sense of where they "fit". One possibility is to fit in with a group. Another is to reject the group and persue uniqueness. Either is a mean of validating the self, defining self worth. Some who try to "normalize" their kinks with statements such as "lots of people do this, they just don't admit to it" is an attempt to remain part of the group... to continue to be like everyone else, or at least convince themselves that they are. Such an individual is deriving some of their self worth from their relationship to a larger group so maintaining that relationship is an important motivation in their behavior. Some individuals assert their uniqueness, their superiority, how extreme they are. These individuals, having rejected the group for whatever reason, are instead seeking their own self worth by asserting their individuality. Part of that is not only reject the group, but its values, and also "buttressing" their own self image against those group values (which can drive an indvidual to greater and greater extremes).

Does that help answer your question?

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RE: Vanilla to Twisted Spectrum - 11/9/2007 6:01:34 PM

Squeakers

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I use this analogy---for me it's a sundae. The vanilla is my foundation my ice cream. I do all sorts of vanilla things every day as a matter of fact I think I could not survive without the vanilla part, I need to work, I interact with other who would not understand my kinks, I need to buy groceries, I watch tv, I listen to music, I attend college, I love, I'm a mother, I get sick, I go to the bathroom---all very vanilla things. My kinks are my toppings on my sundae. And it really doesn't matter what the toppings are because the flavors appeal to me, whether I like nuts, cherries, whip cream, hot fudge and that ooohhh so great peanut butter syrup. Other's may not like that mixture and use something else but in order for it to be a sundae there must be that ice cream or vanilla foundation. I think plain toppings wouldn't taste so good. I already know that someday I'll be old and maybe my kinks or my toppings may not be something I am able to tolerate at some point, but I'll still have that foundation. Sometimes just plain old ice cream works---but the toppings flavor it and make it better. I don't seperate myself into vanilla and kink. It's the mixture of the two that make it work for me. The toppings set me apart and make me. Some people are simply happy with just plain old ice cream, and I do not feel the need to ask them to use my toppings so it can taste better nor do I have the need to even let them know I use toppings. What I put on my ice cream is my business. And if others have a problem with it---let them eat cake.

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RE: Vanilla to Twisted Spectrum - 11/9/2007 9:34:04 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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I think a lot of people like the sub culture in part because it's a sub culture, because it's not mainstream, because it's against the grain, because it's considered dark, because it's considered twisted, because it can be a legitimate excuse to let go of boundaries people put on themselves.

But that doesn't mean it actually IS dark/nasty/twisted. I don't have "nasty" parts of myself and "vanilla" parts of myself. I'm just me. I'd be the same way if beating and fucking in the streets was considered boring and missionary sex in the dark was considered abusive and disgusting to most people.

Frankly I WANT it to be boring- because then everyone really just accepts it as just another way of being/doing/having.

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RE: Vanilla to Twisted Spectrum - 11/11/2007 2:52:04 PM

cyberchicdoll

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When what the lifestyle contains is our very soul. How can one or two words cover it. When i think about myself lots of words and labels apply a little bit. Each word applies to me in some way but doesnt say it all. As a submissive different words apply to me than the words which explain my Masters soul in this lifestyle.
When those outside, (and some inside), the lifestyle view and judge us, and apply words they only apply to their perception of us. What i think we all have to do is get our own minds straight with our own needs and desires. Here are my needs and desires as they stand right now(lol it waxs and wanes with what i learn it may be different tommorow). The words are in no particular order of significance, just ones that relate to my lifestyle choices as a submissive.

Honour, love, respect, obedience, courage, desire, humility, caring, vanilla, integrity,strength, control, physicality(lol if this isnt a real word sorry), gentleness.

We shouldnt spend our time analysing rather just embrace what is in our souls and enjoy take it day to day as no perceptions, whoever they belong to are set in stone. We can change everyting about us if it is our desire.

cyberchicdoll submissive to MasterJohnUK

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RE: Vanilla to Twisted Spectrum - 11/11/2007 3:00:05 PM

szobras

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Personally, I do not stand on one side of the fence, nor the other. I comprise my life of many things because of who I am, and I do not seperate the whole of me into parts as such. If I did, I probably would spend most days resembling a dog looking for a place to shit.

< Message edited by szobras -- 11/11/2007 3:13:25 PM >

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RE: Vanilla to Twisted Spectrum - 11/11/2007 4:10:09 PM

Cyntilating

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

in an effor not to hijack another thread ( http://www.collarchat.com/m_1395437/mpage_1/tm.htm ) i am starting this one....and i was talking about this with someone last night and i wanted to get some other thoughts on it...

there is one end of the spectrum where people sugarcoat what we do to make it ok and good and wholesome and "normal" (whatever that is) in the vanilla world...and honestly....it's not...if it was we wouldn't need to have this forum to talk to each other about what we do...we could talk about it on the street and in our church groups and durring lunch at work and after PTA meetings...

personally, i see people using the complete opposite end of the spectrum to make what we do ok and good for us because we are dark people and wholesome for us because we are sick and twisted and perverted people...and it is people rationalizing and justifying what we do by saying that no we are not vanilla people, we are the complete opposite, so it is ok that we do this kind of stuff...

well...there may be some people at that complete opposite end of the spectrum....but the majority of the people in this lifestyle lay somewhere in the middle....we go to work and school and some of us go to church and some of us go to PTA meetings and numerous other things along with we have power exchange relationships or beat on or tie up our partners or lovers or whatever....

so why are we so afraid to be somewhere in the middle? is it the balancing act?
either i am vanilla or i am sick and twisted?
i gotta have a rock to stand on and i am definately not vanilla, so i will be sick and twisted?
none of those?
what do you think?

chelle

Chelle
    so why are we so afraid to be somewhere in the middle? is it the balancing act?

I am not afraid to be in the middle....I am in the middle but I am also on both ends of the spectrum at times also..

the "dark" er aspects of my life are just that> aspects of a portion of my life. They do not define me or make me entirely dark.
I have kinky times and feelings..desires....but I have places in my life where "kinky" would be no ones description of me ( job...spiritual outlets...and even certain friendships) they just don't know me that way... [ I work with young'uns and the last thing their parents would want to know is that MissCyndi hangs nekkid from ceiling hooks, tressed up like a holiday turkey, with dangly things connected to her bits and peices ! gobble gobble]

There are some people in my life that could/can only be comfortable knowing that the man in my life ( whom I call Master ) is simply a fine southern gentleman who knows how to treat a woman like a lady.....( and I don't feel the need to make them uncomfortable "educating" them to anything different)...

There are some friendships/relationships where I feel completely comfortable divulging more about our dynamic..because either they are open to it or they themselves understand similar lifestyle choices and dynamics..

Frankly, I rarely find myself talking with anyone about the physical aspects ( reads :bondage discipline implements degree of intensity ) of our relationship dynamic..
That isn't because I think it sick or wrong....isn't because some people would be comfy and others wouldn't, hearing about it>>>>it is mostly because its private...between He and I..

yes, I am my Masters submissive and it effects every aspect of my life. But, it isn't the only aspect of me. It isn't all you will see/find when you get to know me.

  I don't consider these identifying differences "sugarcoating"(trying to make it seem normal) NOR do I brag in an explicit way(trying to bring focus to my kink or dark)...
The difference in who hears what and sees what from me I call:
   Commonsense communication using healthy (emotionally)boundaries.                                                                                                                  I can be honest and open about myself and my life, AND still manage to be respectful of other peoples sense of what is comfortable for them to hear/know.

re: these boards/forums and how people choose to describe themselves and their dynamic?
well....it seems that(for some) it's almost like a competition at times..
who's the kinkiest? who gets beat the worst? how much pain can I take or does he/she dish out?
which ones have the deepest connection?
whos got the most holes in their body..or...who fills up those holes the hardest? whos kink is extreme and whos is wimpy stuff..?
    not sure why that happens, but I think it is only representative of a chat/message forum and not of the bdsm community in general .

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RE: Vanilla to Twisted Spectrum - 11/11/2007 4:34:28 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Persoanlly, I take Pat Califia's suggestion to heart: when you call yourself a pervert, and admit that what you do is deviant, what does that leave your enemies to hurt you with? Nothing!

But correct me if I am wrong, but Pat did change his position with regard to age of consent once s/he became a parent?

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RE: Vanilla to Twisted Spectrum - 11/11/2007 4:39:39 PM

Prinsexx

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Dear chelle:
alll I know is that I feel I am the pivotal point of the spectrum along which I keep a pretty good balancing act going...whilst you know juggling a few balls in the air, riding a monocycle along queer street, whilst holding a family by a thread between my teeth...
it's others that just keep wanting to fuck me off my pivotal point .....

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 11/11/2007 4:41:45 PM >

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