Maya2001
Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: windchymes
quote:
ORIGINAL: SweetDommes
I don't think he's all that either ... I know people in the areas where he works, and they've had to re-train dogs that he's worked with (and that includes re-training the owners) because of mistakes that he's made, plus there is the issues of the dogs that have been killed while on his 'ranch' due to mishandling/neglect by his employees (who use the techniques that he trains).
Now, I do watch the show from time to time - but it's more to see if he finally gets his face ripped off by a dog for doing some of the silly things that he does.
I'd be really curious to see actual evidence or documentation of any dogs that were killed by mishandling or neglect while under Cesar's care.
First off all dog training is about teaching owners how to handle their dogs, in the pre 60s Most of the common training then followed Koehlers methods which was very harsh and abusive, by the 70 to 90 reward was added but still the main focus was corrective like Milans methods(his training methods are not new) there is a reason why this is no longer consider a good method to train, it is because is does not motivate the dog to make choices the dog only obeys because knowing if it does not that correction will occur, but if given the upper hand many will rebel and that can lead to a dangerous situation for weak owners or if children are handling the dog. That is why positive reward based methods are encouraged, to motivate the dog into wanting to please and teaching it yes mistakes can occur but instead of punishing we withhold the reward therefore motivating it to try harder and not causing fear and maintaining it's trust in the process. Milans training methods and others before him damage the trust and respect a dog can have for its owner in most cases and whittles away at the dogs self confidence. As a result you can never get the strong bond that Caroyln Scott had with Rookie http://www.caninefreestylemagicmatch.com/
It was in the late 70's when I met and spoke with Charles Eisenmann owner and trainer of the dogs that starred in the Littlest Hobo along with his dogs London, Thorn, Jack, Toro. He was promoting positive dog training way back then and telling people then that smacking dog to correct only undermined them, and I was extremely fascinated by the way the dogs interacted with him as well as the desire they had for learning, and knew then that what he said made sense and the dogs proved it , His training book Stop!, Sit! and Think! because the first training book I bought, and as a teen trained my next puppy using this view, the dog proved capable of simple math whether retrieving or barking , understand commands in various languages and sign language, as well he he was trained to hunt, because of his skills he learned his pups were in high demand.
Milans techniques are designed only to suppress behavior not modify and his techniques are not new or unique to him
, all he has done is revived the 1970-1990 training methods the reason they are the old methods is because the proved "NOT " to be the best way to train a dog, I have went to training classes over the years sldo dprny time working with one person who graduated in animal pyschology and was training and selecting dogs for police work, and quite familiar with his methods and ideologies but I learned to move forward and seen how newer methods work and do support them, he claims to use wolf pack theory but wolf expects even say he is full of itand does not understand how they exst in a pack. National Geographic made him a star/"dog trainer" , he has no training or credentials to make him a qualified trainer
Remember the shows are edited. one person had got hold of some unedited stuff and he is no where near as nice as portrayed and those that have seen him live also have see kicking and punching dogs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/opinion/31derr.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-belzer/first-do-no-harm_b_61755.html
read the bottom of the page from the experts who by the way actually took university courses in animal behaviour and pyschology and recieved their trainimg from often several other trainers (Milan has absolutely no credentials or education with regards to animal training/behaviour)
Not even the American humane society accepts is training methods
http://www.americanhumane.org/site/PageServer?pagename=nr_news_releases_dog_whisperer
here is the lawsuit for a dog severey injured and not the only one http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2006-05-05-dog-whisperer_x.htm
You say he is not agressive, guess what finger jabs, of choke collars, jerking, hitting, pinning to the ground are punitive active designed to create aversion when you use constantly it prevent total trust and respect. Flooding techniques that he uses for scared dogs will only work for a very small number most would just mentally shut down or in the case of one dog I have here would kill her , when overstressed my dog will start rapid over heating her panting becomes so fast and shallow that she is unable to cool her care temperature down, when it rises too high seizures, coma and death can follow and this can occur with in minutes. This is a dog that many trainers wrote off said should be put down, because her extreme phobias of other dogs, people and fear of being outside, noises , voices , that they felt she was unable make the transition from breeding farm dog in her own kennel run to pet, when in a state of terror she was unable to recognize she was safe, for example if she seen a person 50 yards away she slipped into a state of terror, she should have recognized she was safe due to sheer distance, also by the fact she can outrun a person plus barriers like fences offer safety, her fear was so great she could not process this info. I have worked with one other other spook (more than just being fearful, had a phobia of people)that was not as bad had only a couple of phobias, and I enjoy the challenge, so I asked to have her so she made the trip from Florida to Ontario. This is the black greyhound that I was told it would be cruelty to keep her alive as she would be unable to find joy in living because her fears prevented, With in about a week of her being here I recognized flooding would not work she was already overflooded with info and that was part of the problem, she was struggling to cope with too much, I had to work the opposite eliminate all stimuli so she could feel safe by giving her own room to hide in, reducing noise in the house, which meant no tv or radio on, not allowing the other dogs to go into her safe room, allowing her time to calm down and learn to trust once trust is becoming established much like BDSM I start pushing her limits, he limits just happened to be far less developed then other dogs the phobias we work around the very edges allowing her to be slightly uncomfortable as she gets used to and become comfortable with I push her a little more, and she get rewarded for sucesses not punished for lack of success much like a good D/s relationship, the results speak for themselves she learned to play outside with another dog ignoring me with the camera and not worrying about whether neighbours are outside watching her and ignoring another noises, she succeeded in becoming a pet it just took a while to get to this stage-- 3 and a 1/2 years and from there she is developing better coping skills, next month I go in the hospital for surgery and someone else has to stay in the house to look after the dogs, and I know she will be able to handle that now and I don't have to worry any more about her becoming overstressed from, as she now has the roots and confidence to be able to handle, she still gets scared but she no longer flips into panic/phobia mode as she knows her safety nets are still in place even when I am not there for her. For a dog that all the trainers I spoke to said she should be put down because could never learn to be happy and normal, this video proves otherwise and it was accomplished with valiums or anti anxiety meds or psychiatric meds http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/mleg2001/?action=view¤t=P1010002.flv
I have been training dogs since the 70's have taken in several training classes, including advanced levels and purchased a range of training books from kroehlers to Jean Donaldsons - the culture clash, have spent time observing my own dogs packs as well as spent time research wolf pack behaviour did some of my learning under dog psychologist,did fostering of track greyhounds to prepare them for life as pets and wrote behavioural assessment reports on dogs as well as assessed them for various forms of agressions and preydrives inorder to ensure suitable adoption placements, I have handled agressive dogs as a result of psychiatric disorders as well as have fostered strong dominant dogs and those that are dog aggressive even when i had a pack living in the same dwelling.
Just because I am a pet owner does not mean I am not qualified to judge another person on their handling training abilities. Milan crates all his dogs up when he can't supervise them where my pack get free roam of the house despite the fact I have a 70 pound range difference in size and 9 1/2 gap in ages as well as an alpha and omega dog, and all 4 have strong preydrives I focused on ensuring my pack can behave together as a unit and allowed them to work out their differences so they know there own positions in the pack, I learned their individual personalities so I know what will trigger certain behaviours, so know what to do inorder to avoid conflicts so they can live harmoniously together with out my having to supervise them, including having cats in the house with them to teach them the cats are part of their pack and offlimits as prey, I do use crates but only temporarily during the introduction period or for transporting or if a dog needs a open crate for security, but I would not consider myself much of a dog owner/trainer is I had to rely on crates to keep the peace because I failed to help my dogs become well established as a well functioning pack that respects one another, if he is such a good leader why has he not achieved that kind of level with his own dogs????? And his theory that only alphas can lead first is hogwash, this is my omega dog leading the way amongst the pack
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/mleg2001/P1010004a.jpg
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Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself
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RE: The Dog Whisperer - 
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