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Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 4:56:41 PM   
CuriousLord


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Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Any engineers here with a Master's or Ph.D.?  Or otherwise knowledgable about the pro's and con's of grad school for engineers, physists, or chemists?

Any information or opinions that one might provide, either on here or in provide, would be appreciated.  I'm an undergrad ChemE/Phys major considering grad school, and I'd like any insight one with the experience could shed.  I'm particularly interested in the finicial aspect and how to find out what particular research programs are available.

A lot of people've been telling me that the state pays ~20k in stipends and that tutition isn't charged.  Since I'm going to have to support myself through it, this finicial aspect is a large concern, as it has to be a viable option before I even look into it further.  What research programs I might be able to join is also a strong question, and I've yet to find any source approaching comprehensive outside of individual research programs.

Prospectives and insights from any engineering/science grad school experience would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 5:01:20 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 Yup...

If an American company can import a specialized,highly trained engineer,from overseas for cheaper(and they do),no amount of education`s going to help you.

yw...


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/10/2007 5:02:10 PM >

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 5:09:30 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		Then it would strike one as prudent to ensure that he would be educated enough to compete, would it not?  I'm not entirely sure I wish to rely on boarders keeping out more eligable applicants for my job security.

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 5:21:09 PM   
sophia37


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Status: offline 		I dont know what state pays 20 grand in stipends. You mean loans? You mean tuition assistance by helping with classes? Go to grad school if what you want to do requires further schooling. Otherwise maybe work in the field for a bit, then see if the employer gives tuition assistance for continuing ed.

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 5:25:35 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		Most of my post-grad friends talk about the stipends and the advisors tell me the same.  Still, most of my friends are in the computer sciences bit.  They hack for various contractors to their respective universities, attempting to break the company's security.  Upon success, they construct a suggestion to the company on how they might improve their electronic security measures.

I'm actually sort of curious what work I might have to do in addition to studies to maintain such a grant, or if it's simply given so long as research performance is maintained.

(Apparently, Engy/science grad schools work like this.  Students still have to pay for other sorts.)

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 5:29:07 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       Talk to a Navy Recruiter.  You'd be amazed what a security clearance can do for your future in an economy full of immigrants willing to work a lot harder than you might wish to for less.

     

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 5:31:24 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

A lot of people've been telling me that the state pays ~20k in stipends and that tutition isn't charged.


Are they talking about graduate assistantships?  Or perhaps fellowships?  When I worked in higher ed, we had tons of jobs for grad assistants, but this was in the education/rehab/counseling fields.  This was also 10 years ago, don't know if things have changed.  They received a small income plus tuition waiver (for assistantships).  I do not know anything about fellowships.

edited for clarity


< Message edited by KatyLied -- 11/10/2007 5:32:38 PM >

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 5:36:56 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Then it would strike one as prudent to ensure that he would be educated enough to compete, would it not?  I'm not entirely sure I wish to rely on boarders keeping out more eligable applicants for my job security.


I wish we had national leaders,like we did w/ Al Gore and Bill Clinton,who felt this way about our nation`s competitive position vs. the world.

Cutting PELL grant money,letting our world competitors spend more on education than we do,making it harder to pay for education at home,etc,all have an impact on our nation`s ability to compete.

But yes,the more sheep skins and Post Hole Diggers(PhDs) you have,the better you`ll do.

I have a tip for you.The future is plastics...

Kidding ,w/ my "The Graduate" reference.

Seriously.The future is renewable energy and clean(er) energy technology(solar,wind,tidal,geo-thernal,"green" buildings,etc),IMO.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/10/2007 5:38:47 PM >

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 5:44:50 PM   
Real0ne


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just get a government job its the best and most secure business going!


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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 5:50:29 PM   
MrrPete


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Status: offline 		when you get to finding work only put down the education that is required for the position. If a job requires a Masters don't put down your PhD you will be considered "over qualified" and you won't get the job.

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 6:01:04 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		CL,with this "global economy" crap you'll be competing with many foreign engineers.
India cranks them out by the hundreds of thousands every year!
So does China but those countries each have a billion or more people.
But, if you join the military they will put you through grad school and pay you pretty well while you're doing it.
Other people will be living in a dorm and you'll be able to afford a condo and your school is paid for by the Navy!
Talk to a Navy recruiter, they're always looking for Engineers.
P.S. Uniforms = chicks!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/10/2007 6:03:31 PM >

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 6:29:13 PM   
kindsensualkinky


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Status: offline 		I'm not an engineering grad student, but I am in the sciences and working in a very engineering related lab.

Most decent science grad schools will pay you to go, in addition to waiving tuition (in fact, if you can prove you're smart enough, they'll welcome you as cheap labor, as you'll be doing lots of research for around minimum wage if you count the actual hours you end up working...)

And (in my biased opinion) a PhD is not just about whatever you're studying, but bona fide proof that you can think critically and independently and see a project through to its conclusion. From a financial standpoint, it's definitely a pro in the long run if you have the persistence to pull it off. It depends a lot on that of course. In essence, if you enjoy challenges and solving difficult problems (literally, ones that no one's been able to solve before) a PhD is the best way to prove it, and if that's what you really want to do, it can be VERY financially rewarding. In most industries and even purely financial companies, there's respect for the abilities a PhD implies, and the training itself is, of course, very valuable.

Feel free to individually message me if you have more specific questions/concerns, and good luck!

Oh, and to those whining about the "global economy crap," I understand why it may be a very personal issue, but non-Americans are people too. And if they're willing to work their asses off, well, they deserve your job. Having the good fortune of being born in a prosperous country does not entitle you to special privileges just because you're not accustomed to working as hard as others are. In essence, they are willing to contribute more while asking for less in return, and you're upset because they're making you look bad by comparison. You poor thing...

Please understand why it's hard to sympathize with your complaints when you're getting paid over ten times as much as most of the rest of the world for doing less work, and why you sound like a whiny brat when you act as if such compensation is your god-given right and competition is so unfair because others have so much more merit than you. (end of tirade).





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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 6:29:34 PM   
happypervert


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From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		It is difficult to say from here -- a lot depends on the school you go to because a place like Cal Tech that is loaded with Nobel laurates will have a lot more access to research money than a place like Louisiana Tech. From what I've seen it also depends on "earning your stripes" -- getting admitted into a program doesn't guarantee you'll get anything, because you could get there and piss off the powers that be or end up at the bottom of the pecking order among a group of very sharp students and just get weeded out when there is money to support them but not you.

In general, the profs write proposals for research grants, and when the money comes in it goes to pay their proteges (you) to do the research at a level that allows you to pay tuition and bills and not much else. Graduate school outside of professional schools like law or business school is largely a socialization process aimed at developing your dedication to the science; making sure you're not too fat and happy is one component of that.


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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 6:36:35 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Kindsensualkinky, lol, thanks for the rant but I'm retired military!
But, just because I'm doing well doesn't mean that I don't want to see my fellow Americans doing well!
This "Global Economy" is for big businesses not for individuals.
I'd like to buy a nice telescope but I can't find one that's made in the USA.
That doesn't sound too "global" to me.
So, no telescope.

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 6:42:02 PM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		why american?  I think germany still makes the best glass.  or go to edmund scientific and order a grinding kit and grind your own lenses  then its made in america.  a bud made a 8 or 10inch reflector scope with hand grinding and you cannot look at the moon without a welding glass to protect your eyes it so bright.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 7:44:27 PM   
kindsensualkinky


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Status: offline 		fair enough popeye :->

http://cgi.ebay.ph/Optisan-Telescope-Microscope-Set-Made-USA_W0QQitemZ260180247223QQihZ016QQcategoryZ5204QQcmdZViewItem

or

www.handsonoptics.com/stellarvue_sv90t.html

I'm sure google can also find you somethign in between.

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 9:30:28 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Kindsensual, re-reading your rant you sound like a real Bush Republican.
Of course non-Americans are human too but that doesn't mean that I or the U.S. have to supply them with jobs or anything else.
That's up to their govt. They're not my people.
Besides, those other countries hate us anyway, why would I want to give them any foreign aid or feed them?
And as far as I'm concerned any company that wants to close it's plants here and move to another country can sell their stuff in another country.
They should be denied access to our market.
You neo-cons are all for big business and screw the citizens.
I'm sure there are 100's of thousands of lawyers in those countries who would be willing to work for ten times less too. Why don't you let them in as well?
It's always pick on the working people with you guys.

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/10/2007 9:43:43 PM   
DomMeinCT


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Status: offline 		Ideas for financing graduate school:

Get a job (yes, even with an undergraduate degree).  Some employers will reimburse you for continued education if your field of study is approved by the employer and you achieve some minimum grade level.

Get a Residential Life job running a residence hall at the university where you're doing graduate work.  I did this and the university gave me an apartment, paid me a minor stipend, and tuition was free.  The amount of work expended in this type of job can be well worth the benefits.

Either way is preferable, in my opinion, to putting yourself further in college loan debt.

< Message edited by DomMeinCT -- 11/10/2007 9:49:51 PM >

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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/11/2007 11:18:48 AM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Any engineers here with a Master's or Ph.D.?  Or otherwise knowledgable about the pro's and con's of grad school for engineers, physists, or chemists?


Hi CL--

This is a view from the EE world, and the views of a lot of folks I worked with.

PhDs were seen as good for only 3 things:  teaching at a university, working as an independent consultant, or heading up an R&D department within a corporation.  You can run into the "overqualified" problem with a PhD.  However, some fields like chemistry, biology, etc. want Ph.Ds just to get normal engineering work (degree inflation).

Another topic that came up was: only go to grad school if you know exactly what you're interested in.  To figure that out, it may be better to get out and work a bit.  Live like a grad student (cheap housing, no expensive cars, no debt or pay off debt) while you're doing that.  Then apply to grad school.  When you come out of the grad program, you'll have work experience to give you a leg up on the competition.

Look around on your engineering society and industry mags and see what folks are looking for in terms of degree level.

That's about it for my ideas.  Good luck with your work.

thornhappy



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RE: Engineering Grad School? - 11/11/2007 11:37:23 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I know a lady in Boston who got two Master's degrees instead of getting her Ph.D. because she's in info. teck and everyone told her she'd be considered "overqualified" with a Ph.D. (I.E. they don't want to pay more for a doctorate.)
She also teaches business courses at a uni in Boston.

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