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Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 12:56:23 AM   
SugarMyChurro


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Now RIAA wants Universities to get campus wide Napster subscription or “lose all federal financial aid”
http://www.bizorigin.com/2007/riaa_nuclear_option

-----

Seriously, how low can they go? What has protecting against potential copyright infringement have to do with financial aid? And even if there was some sort of insane nexus between the two, why should universities be policing this stuff? Why should they get music service subscriptions for every student?

Maybe what the universities need is better stocked libraries? Online libraries for that matter...?

Frankly, I never understood why the Feds ever got involved with this stuff from a criminal standpoint either. Let the RIAA or MPAA sue as they like. Why should anyone else care about it at all?

The guys that have offered up this legislation for consideration are obviously RIAA whores:
Rep. George Miller (D-CA)
Rep. Ruben Hinojosa (D-TX)

[Mod Note:  email address and telephone number removed]



< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 11/13/2007 6:57:20 AM >
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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 1:08:58 AM   
Lordandmaster


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You know, I would have some sympathy for the RIAA if it weren't for their jaw-droppingly sleazy tactics.  Yes, file-sharing is illegal (or more precisely: file-sharing is not always legal), and yes, I'm willing to believe that record companies are damaged financially by the practice.  But this kind of bullshit costs them the moral ground.  Seems like a very bad strategy in the long run.

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 1:26:01 AM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Now RIAA wants Universities to get campus wide Napster subscription or “lose all federal financial aid”
http://www.bizorigin.com/2007/riaa_nuclear_option

-----

Seriously, how low can they go? What has protecting against potential copyright infringement have to do with financial aid? And even if there was some sort of insane nexus between the two, why should universities be policing this stuff? Why should they get music service subscriptions for every student?

Maybe what the universities need is better stocked libraries? Online libraries for that matter...?

Frankly, I never understood why the Feds ever got involved with this stuff from a criminal standpoint either. Let the RIAA or MPAA sue as they like. Why should anyone else care about it at all?

The guys that have offered up this legislation for consideration are obviously RIAA whores:
Rep. George Miller (D-CA)
Rep. Ruben Hinojosa (D-TX)



My prediction:   Blowback from such a subversive, self-protectionist mode will eventually lead to the RIAA's implosion.

I can only hope that new innovation from our own subversive collective speeds up that downfall.

- R


[Mod Note:  email address and telephone number removed from quote]



< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 11/13/2007 6:57:46 AM >


_____________________________

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 3:16:41 AM   
pinksugarsub


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Copyright laws may well be practically unenforcable now, and this tide will only increase.  The only litigation left will be trademark infringement.  The 'net makes all information potentially available for free, and artists will never again control their work, nor the entertainment industry which hires them.  Cannot put the cat back in the bag.
 
pinksugarsub

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 6:18:13 AM   
pahunkboy


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They, RIITA,  will win the round but not the long term, IMO.  WHERE IS the new talent?

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 10:47:43 AM   
popeye1250


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I don't think Universities should be getting federal financial aid in the first place!
They're supposed to be "non-profits" and have "tax-free" status.
Harvard U. has an "endowment" of $41 Billion.
And, it's a "private" school not a public school.

_____________________________

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 1:35:40 PM   
Termyn8or


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Had to do it dintya.

There are two issues. I got Glass Bottle-I Ain't Got Time Anymore, CCR-Ramble Tamble, and several renditions of Johnny B Goode that are decades old. All of these have been in what is called public domain. That said, that means it is owned by the public after the artist gets a reasonable amount of time to make money off of it. Also when it is so old that the artist is dead, it is pretty much in public domain. And if I wrote and produced a song, that is exactly where I would want it, sort of as a legacy. I made my money, it ran it's course. If I am dead, that recording of me lives on.

And there is another thing now. We live in the day and age when the artist can directly hit the public. Yes that one group said less than half of the people payed for the download of their new album. But that also means that almost half did.

Now just how much do you supose an artist get for each CD sold ? The stamper might cost about $80,000, and then they sell a million disks for $12.99 each. That is thirteen million dollars. The artist will of course become a millionaire, but what hapened to the rest of that money ?

It is the layers and layers of people between the artist and the consumer who are eating up the money, and now they are spending it on lawyers in an attempt to save their industry. Not surprising really.

Actually in some cases the record comany does alot to "manage" these artists. I know a few, I know the type. They are a wild bunch to say the least. Through connections, record companies are swift to cover up drug charges and worse. That is their golden goose, and sometimes it thinks like a goose. You only know the things that they can't or don't want to cover up. Some rockstar gets busted with a pound of weed you are not likely to hear about it. You only hear what they want you to hear.

Their lawyers make my best lawyers look like shit,. and I have had some good ones. They are supported by the PTB so all the prosecution's evidence can be simply disallowed in a pretrial. The media can also be summarily excluded, no problem.

Rockstars really are a wild bunch, Grand Funk was in jail so much I am surprised that they ever got the album done. And others did time too, it just wasn't made public.

This is one of those invasive forces that pollute our society. In my world you make music for the enjoyment of yourself and others, not for money. It is something you do after work, not as work. Can you see that ? Can you understand ?

As an artist, of little note, but an artist nonetheless, I can say one thing. The idea of selling the art did not come from the artist. If it did they are not an artist. You practice art because you want to experss yourself. The desire to do so has been usurped by the beancounters though,and now we have this mess.

I have three songs that I wrote and performed. One has words and I actually sing it, the otrher two are purely instrumental. I don't want a dime for them. They are totally original, and I am told that they are good. "The Answer In The End" and "Dance Of the Spider" are yours. If I didn't want to share it, I could simply not play it, and keep it in my mind forever.

But that isn't the idea.

Think I'll go play the guitar. The door is locked so if the taxman feels cheated, he can't get to me. And believe me, it is not easy to get through my  front door. Yup, I think I can play the guitar with impunity right now.

But one last thing, the government should not be giving any money to schools. Don't you see the inherent problem in that ? They buy control. Local utilities that are monpolies buy control of the local TV stations. Drug companies buy control of medical schools, and look where that got us.

Enough for now.

Y

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 1:53:13 PM   
popeye1250


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Well, it's pretty obvious then why music artists start their own labels.
Why be "handing out money" to all those middle men.
Have your own people to do it.

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 2:08:18 PM   
farglebargle


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I am reminded of the fate of Buggy Whip makers, and wonder why this contemporary example expects the Feds to step in and support their failing industry?



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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 2:33:48 PM   
Crush


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I am reminded of the fate of Buggy Whip makers, and wonder why this contemporary example expects the Feds to step in and support their failing industry?




Didn't happen for the slide rule manufacturers!!!   Proud owner of Dietzgen!

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 2:43:02 PM   
Petronius


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... and that's to say nothing of the hype around financial losses that the companies pump out with great regularity and even greater indignation.

Specifically, companies only lose money on missed purchases and only lose their profit, not their production cost.

The company will claim that somebody copying a CD costs them "$15.95." Well $15.95 isn't their profit so even their ideal theoretic losses are far less than that.

Then, too, making a copy only costs them money if the copy represents a lost sale. Somebody making a copy of the latest Madonna song who would never buy a Madonna album costs them exactly ... nothing.

The greatest hype is the invention of this thing called "intellectual property." There ain't no such thing. What there is is a copyright, a limited government-awarded monopoly that is very tangible and very limited. Whereas property comes with a natural right to lifelong ownership, copyrighted material comes with no natural rights at all. It is only protected via legislation and can be legislated against.

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 2:44:32 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Well... the benifit or (silver lining if you will) in this is... That in losing Federal Aid,  Colleges and Universities might have to lower tutition back to reasonable.

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 11/13/2007 2:47:06 PM >

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 4:26:48 PM   
CollegeConundrum


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If every RIAA executive was assasinated tomorrow, I would shed tears of joy and euphoria.

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 4:42:00 PM   
sophia37


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My gut tells me colleges wont allow that to happen. 

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/13/2007 7:11:09 PM   
Lordandmaster


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It's the other way around, of course.  If it weren't for federal aid, tuition would be even higher.  If you want lower tuitions, you'd be voting for candidates who favor increased spending on education.  But something tells me you haven't been doing that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Well... the benifit or (silver lining if you will) in this is... That in losing Federal Aid,  Colleges and Universities might have to lower tutition back to reasonable.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/14/2007 5:06:27 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
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From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Now RIAA wants Universities to get campus wide Napster subscription or “lose all federal financial aid”
http://www.bizorigin.com/2007/riaa_nuclear_option

-----

Seriously, how low can they go? What has protecting against potential copyright infringement have to do with financial aid? And even if there was some sort of insane nexus between the two, why should universities be policing this stuff? Why should they get music service subscriptions for every student?

Maybe what the universities need is better stocked libraries? Online libraries for that matter...?

Frankly, I never understood why the Feds ever got involved with this stuff from a criminal standpoint either. Let the RIAA or MPAA sue as they like. Why should anyone else care about it at all?

The guys that have offered up this legislation for consideration are obviously RIAA whores:
Rep. George Miller (D-CA)
Rep. Ruben Hinojosa (D-TX)

[Mod Note:  email address and telephone number removed]




I agree the government uses financial aid to control universities. Don't really care that it's the RIAA bidding on the pie this time.  The government is the broken piece here.





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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/14/2007 5:27:21 AM   
SugarMyChurro


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Or...

You could see this story as being one of those that reveals too much for most people's political comfort. Our assumption is that the government works for and represents the people - which is what makes the story as given so shocking. If you simply assume something else - for example, that the government works for and represents corporate interests - then everything makes perfect sense.

Democratic Republic? Not so much.

Plutocracy? Fits like a glove.

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/14/2007 6:40:09 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It's the other way around, of course. If it weren't for federal aid, tuition would be even higher. If you want lower tuitions, you'd be voting for candidates who favor increased spending on education. But something tells me you haven't been doing that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Well... the benifit or (silver lining if you will) in this is... That in losing Federal Aid, Colleges and Universities might have to lower tutition back to reasonable.



I suggest that in fact, federal funding *does* increase the end-user costs of education, as it creates an entire market segment for their product which wouldn't exist otherwise.

And then there's the costs incurred by the institution in lobbying, etc...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/14/2007 2:21:57 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Of course it does.... just like Federal money jacks up the cost of medicine and farm subsidies jack up the cost of farm goods.

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RE: Universities to “lose all federal financial aid” - 11/14/2007 2:24:08 PM   
farglebargle


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How much was that bag of sugar you just bought? Sometimes the subsidies don't work in a clear way all the time.

By subsidizing corn syrup, you depress the sugar market.

By providing federal funds, you get the educational institutions to lower their requirements, and expand their student population, primarily on their ability to bring in revenue, rather than their academic potential.

At that point, what downward pressure exists on pricing?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/14/2007 2:26:14 PM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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