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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/14/2007 5:19:10 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Anybody can beak something... just watch a child the day after Christmas.  There's really nothing difficult or virtuous about that.  Try building something.  Now there's a challenge.
 
John


How true. And those who feel you need to "break" someone in a relationship, are usually the ones who cannot stand up to the challenge of adult relationships.

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/14/2007 5:21:40 PM   
ItalianSMistress


Posts: 427
Joined: 1/19/2007
From: Niagara Region Ontario Canada
Status: offline 		The way I have always looked at "breaking" the slave has been after a certain amount of time, once I feel I am knowing their reactions, and physical and mental limits well, then I will have an extra intense session with them. One that really is designed to let them have an ultimate release of emotion.  In each one of this style of session as much was taken out of Me as it did the slave.  It not only is a wonderful experiance for the slave, but can really intensify the bond between you.

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/14/2007 5:24:12 PM   
sexyred1


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Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ItalianSMistress

The way I have always looked at "breaking" the slave has been after a certain amount of time, once I feel I am knowing their reactions, and physical and mental limits well, then I will have an extra intense session with them. One that really is designed to let them have an ultimate release of emotion.  In each one of this style of session as much was taken out of Me as it did the slave.  It not only is a wonderful experiance for the slave, but can really intensify the bond between you.


Now your reply makes sense to me, as a sub. In your reply, breaking does not sound negative. But I would call what you have described "breaking". I would call it "bonding".

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/14/2007 5:29:10 PM   
HardnRuff


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Joined: 3/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Anybody can beak something... just watch a child the day after Christmas.  There's really nothing difficult or virtuous about that.  Try building something.  Now there's a challenge.
 
John



Very well spoken words there Rover

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/14/2007 7:21:43 PM   
Shawn1066


Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ItalianSMistress

The way I have always looked at "breaking" the slave has been after a certain amount of time, once I feel I am knowing their reactions, and physical and mental limits well, then I will have an extra intense session with them. One that really is designed to let them have an ultimate release of emotion.  In each one of this style of session as much was taken out of Me as it did the slave.  It not only is a wonderful experiance for the slave, but can really intensify the bond between you.


That is how a breaking should be, and that's how I viewed mine.  It really is the ultimate release and I found it to be a very special show of my submission.  There was really nothing negative about it at all.  It just sounds really bad because it makes one think of shattered glass. :-p

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/14/2007 7:42:21 PM   
ItalianSMistress


Posts: 427
Joined: 1/19/2007
From: Niagara Region Ontario Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Now your reply makes sense to me, as a sub. In your reply, breaking does not sound negative. But I would call what you have described "breaking". I would call it "bonding".



The reason I see it as breaking is the method I do it in.  Without giving way all My rituals, I make it very difficult for to hold it back.  I usually start with a sleep deprivated slave and just work them down to a quivering mess, that is why I am careful to make sure I KNOW their body signals and such.  That ensures that I take breaks when needed and know how to just inch them over mentally, to the end.  That is why I see it as breaking, but in that release, they become cleansed in a way and refreshed.  So that is where the bonding comes in, once they can feel that.

_____________________________

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/14/2007 8:04:35 PM   
umisprite


Posts: 132
Joined: 6/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ctrlaltdelete
Personally, I much prefer a girl that (see my first comment on this thread) willingly and happily assumes the role that she agreed to based on our initial discussions and exchanges. Maybe there are some Doms/Dommes/Masters/Mistresses out there who enjoy and appreciate the daily struggle, drama, challenge and jockeying for position inside the relationship - but personally, I prefer to avoid such a dynamic and instead strive for one that is defined by harmony.

I never quite understood the concept of breaking a slave. I always thought of it as separating the soul from the body. After reading this thread I understand my own confusion. I am the type of girl you describe, happy and willing to submit when the right situation presents itself, it's in my mental and physical makeup. I never needed breaking hence my body and soul are intact.
 

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/14/2007 9:30:29 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear ctrlaltdelete, Ladies and Gentlemen,
 
In reading your responding posts I felt the need to respond in kind.
 
You have stated that you have had a horse that was a high spirited and fiesty fighting filly which you 'broke' into a loyal equine and a good ride.  I must say, that each trainer has their own methods and their way to success.
 
I have had my fair share of horses come off the trailer on the way to slaughter because of horses fighting back for their freedom and their lives.  Starved, whipped with scars and bleeding hides their eyes wild with fear and distrust of a human being.  Cannot say that I blame them as some people rather brute force their way through the rough spots in a horse's training.
Some horses have a spirit to which will not cave in easily, even months in trying to get through the rough spots.  These usually are sent to the slaughter, tagged as dangerous, untrainable, etc.
 
I've had many a successful turn-around with horses people gave up on and fought a horse's will without much success.  For one thing, I am a woman and I am not muscle bound like a man--nor will I become Ms. Olympia in body building.  What style of training may not be to your liking --but, to disagree with my opinion based on success for me; is no different than becoming one of those 'better than thou' sort of individuals.  Where you have the muscles, endurance and such--I prefer being patient and consistant in working in small steps in good progress, building trust.
What I do, is work with my strengths--know my weaknesses and set goals that I can achieve.
I can agree to the fact that as Dominants and equine trainers we have a different method but, no matter how we (in general) obtain success, have a wonderful horse who is safe, sane and do their work because they wish to--with their spirit and their mental health intact--to me that is what is important.  Not who is better at training based on a personal philosophy and or method.
Building a relationship with a horse, a dog and or a human is where it is a shared journey with commitment.  No horse, dog and or human is perfect and neither are Dominants, trainers, riders, drivers and the like. 
 
I am of the opinion and personal preference, in regard to a human slave --  is to have them whole, in which they have their spirit, their will, their mind and reasoning and--they are comfortable in their relationship with me, which has boundaries, expectations and consistancy within the relationship.  There will always be re-enforcement and re-affirming of the relationship roles we have agreed to and wish to maintain.  This requires discipline and levels of my resolve to which maintains the boundaries of the relationship and renews the trust and respect.  I do not dismiss the thought that there might be need for punishment and or the execution of punishment.  I would prefer to train a slave to choose willingly, knowing the consequences, their behavior and their relationship, rather than be punished, pushed, controlled in a micro-managed situation and or beaten to conform into obedient enslavement and or service.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 
 

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/14/2007 10:03:22 PM   
HardnRuff


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Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		wonderful post Lady Hugs

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/15/2007 7:37:33 AM   
ctrlaltdelete


Posts: 284
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Anybody can beak something... just watch a child the day after Christmas.  There's really nothing difficult or virtuous about that.  Try building something.  Now there's a challenge.


John:

Perfectly agreed! The breaking of the slave is not for the outcome of having a broken, as in dysfunctional, slave on your hands, but rather to break through certain barriers and hurdles on the path towards building something new.

Look at orthopedic surgeons, who sometimes have to re-break a previously broken bone just so they can properly set it to where it grows back into proper shape on its own. That surgeon didn't break that bone out of carelessness or some sick perversion either.

Nick

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The opinions expressed in my posts are strictly mine and do not seek to imply that my personal beliefs are representative of those of ANY other individual(s). Should these opinions hurt your little feelers, you are free and welcome to stop reading them.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Breaking a slave - 11/15/2007 7:52:37 AM   
ctrlaltdelete


Posts: 284
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you for 'pushing back' Lady Hugs!

First of all, I adore the noble equine creature and as I pointed out before, not all horses require to be broken. The vast majority just needs to be trained, whereas you stumble across one of the obstinant head-strong ones only once in a while.

I do appreciate that everyone has a different way of doing things - and I was not one to say that my way is better than yours. It simply works better for me. When talked about how both that BLM mare and I were both aching, dirt-covered and bleeding by the end of the day - know that not once in my life have I ever used a spur or a whip on a horse (and yes, I do use whips on slaves/subs, because as opposed to the horse, they actually have the ability to choose and ask for that type of treatment). So when I say that we were bleeding, it was plain and simply from the collision of wills and forces. Horse rearing up and rolling over backwards on me, both of going crashing into the corral fencing, bulldozing through thick stands of pinon and aligator juniper at breakneck speeds....those are the ways that the bleeding came about.

No when it comes to the human slave - the act of breaking a slave becomes a mutually chosen path. Were I to forcefully break a slave, because she did not want to be owned by me, because she did not want to comply with me, because she would not want to follow me - then someone should better be calling the police, as I would be abusing a woman who does not want to be with me. Period.

But if the breaking of the slave is something that is part of a mutually chosen dynamic - then it is solely part of a corrective, educational, evolutionary and never punitive interactive process.

Again - thanks for making me go back re-read some of my rant yesterday and put it into context and perspective.

Be well,

Nick

_____________________________

The opinions expressed in my posts are strictly mine and do not seek to imply that my personal beliefs are representative of those of ANY other individual(s). Should these opinions hurt your little feelers, you are free and welcome to stop reading them.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Breaking a slave - 11/15/2007 8:01:30 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		in this situation it is the terminology that defines that actions.. ....same course of actions: yet one persons breaking is another's bending....and the terminology that is chosen also defines how that person sees themselves..

to me, one that sees themselves as a breaker/builder has certain raw and primal sex appeal, but primal sex appeal often goes hand in hand with primitive relationship skills.

having gone down that road, and knowing the fragility and complexity of the human psyche, i tend to conclude that one that chooses to look at what i call course correcting, and stewarding...as  breaking/building is someone, that in my opinion, is missing a vital piece of the picture.



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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/15/2007 8:31:00 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		We gentle our horses, we don't break them. And if a horse is suited to trail rides, not jumping, we don't try to force them. We find a horse suitable for what we need and find a better place for the horse that doesn't fit us.

Basically compatibility is important to me. I'm looking for a new dog and I need one that isn't territorial. I'm not getting a mastiff that will protect the house from my son's friends running in and out. I'm looking for one that is laid back to begin with.

Same with me, I didn't respond to people who told me they would train me to be totally different, only to the one who likes me just as I am.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/15/2007 8:37:44 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ctrlaltdelete

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
Anybody can beak something... just watch a child the day after Christmas.  There's really nothing difficult or virtuous about that.  Try building something.  Now there's a challenge.


John:

Perfectly agreed! The breaking of the slave is not for the outcome of having a broken, as in dysfunctional, slave on your hands, but rather to break through certain barriers and hurdles on the path towards building something new.

Look at orthopedic surgeons, who sometimes have to re-break a previously broken bone just so they can properly set it to where it grows back into proper shape on its own. That surgeon didn't break that bone out of carelessness or some sick perversion either.

Nick


Nick, I would make the following observations:
 
1.  How many of us Dominants are qualified to safely engage in such therapy?  I know that I am not, and do not believe that I'm in the lower percentiles of Dominants.  The moment you begin comparing "breaking" to surgeons who have a decade's worth of study, supervision and apprenticeship resulting in legitimate qualifications and credentials, I'd say you've gone well beyond any valid comparison.
 
2.  If such "breaking" were possible in the manner described, there would be no thought given to compatibility, as any submissive/slave could be broken and rebuilt to suit the current Dominant's needs.
 
John

< Message edited by Rover -- 11/15/2007 8:38:50 AM >

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RE: Breaking a slave - 11/15/2007 10:06:37 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Celeste is right on here.

Some submissives actively seek to be changed to completely suit their dominant.  Others are fiercely protective of their identities and personalities.  I'll agree with the basic premise, that anyone who wishes to 'break' their submissive/slave as a means of shattering their existing personality and identity probably has as much trouble with reality as they do in finding a willing victim.  Thus, when we talk about breaking a slave, we're more likely talking about the earlier stages of a relationship where the pressure to demand total obedience increases by degree, until it's finally reached (usually in an emotionally charged setting.)  This isn't necessarily wrong or unhealthy.

Breaking a slave in order to make her do things that she ordinarily would not be willing to do, on the other hand, is where the real danger lies.  If I need to haul tons of gravel, I'm better off buying a truck than trying to force a Civic to do the job.  Ensuring compatibility initially saves an enormous amount of frustration and risk.

Stephan


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RE: Breaking a slave - 12/19/2007 1:01:34 AM   
cindybee


Posts: 12
Joined: 12/17/2007
Status: offline 		Why are all the men here so violent?

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Breaking a slave - 12/19/2007 1:04:14 AM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		Oh god, not an "all the men" question.

They are ALL violent because I added vick vaporub to their morning porridge.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Breaking a slave - 12/19/2007 1:06:12 AM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		and I pissed in the coffee pot.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Breaking a slave - 12/19/2007 5:27:42 AM   
exquisitefeline1


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/13/2007
Status: offline 		The Indians are true hunters while the white man hunts by chasing his game into terror and finally exhaustion he captures, overpowers and breaks the spirit of the animal. The Indian however follows along carefully not allowing the scent of man to frighten away the hunted. If it is a horse the animal will know it is being hunted, and it will always keep a few kilometers ahead. Eventually the animal can become curious as to why its hunter has not presented himself and turn around to satisfy its curiosity, walking right into the hunter’s trap. The hunter whispers, build a connection and trust with the animal, which results in a relationship, rather than oppression.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Breaking a slave - 12/19/2007 7:11:38 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ctrlaltdelete
It is the struggling spirits that fight the reins, the saddle, the bit...everything and anything...those are the ones that require breaking.


Actually, these are the horses that I find need to learn that you are trustworthy. And this is when a round pen comes in handy. I'm too old and tired to fight with a horse. I just stand there next to the round pen while the wild eyed animal runs itself ragged, talking to it all the time until it sees that I am always calm and it takes the first step toward me willingly.

Takes longer but builds a better bond. And for show horses, we need them to have their spirit, just channeled into a drive that competes in the show ring, not competes against its rider.

I like this with people too, cooperative not competitive.

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