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julietsierra -> RE: Would You Give It Out? (11/15/2007 11:19:27 PM)
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Well, while I am not a member of the group being discussed, let me share something interesting I learned when I was in a past relationship. The girl who was the slave in that relationship was also one of the organizers of a group around here. They didn't throw parties but they did (and still do) keep membership lists.
Post 9/11, laws regarding membership in private clubs changed. We're not talking JUST bdsm situations here. We're talking about all private clubs. The new legislation held private clubs responsible for their members' activities. This meant that if you were, for instance, the nearest Lebanese or Irish or whatever Social Club (insert your own names here), and there was someone there who was a member who then happened to do something horrible like blow something up, your entire group could be held as suspect for suspicion of soliciting funds for terrorism. This had long been a concern of law enforcement agencies regarding some of the Irish clubs who were raising money for the IRA, etc. Pre-9/11, private clubs would say that they were private and so, not assist law enforcement in any way shape or form to stop the flow of funds to these terrorist groups abroad. In effect, according to some people (prosecutors), this was, in effect, legalized obstruction. According to the private groups, this was freedom to assemble. Freedom to assemble always won out.
Post 9/11 however, things changed. Freedom to assemble took one of the first hits to individual rights. It was decided that freedom to assemble didn't mean freedom from perveyance.The government was granted, through either legislation or case study (I can't recall which) the right to see membership lists if there was a reason to suspect that the group or its members were involved in terrorist activity. If this was found to be the case, the entire assets of the group and it's organizers (personally) could be seized or frozen through legal means.
Now, it may be argued that there's just not a lot of assets to speak of in groups such as ours, but this law wasn't designed for groups such as ours. It was designed for all private clubs and some of those have assets worth millions of dollars.
So anyway, groups are now required to keep paper documentation of those membership lists, including legal names and addresses. Responsible bdsm groups that I'm aware of do keep lists. However, most of the ones I know of keep them secure and not on the premises of the person who is responsible for the lists. Or, if they are housed in the homes of the organizers, they have the capability to be moved if that person gets wind that there is a possibility that they are being investigated. That way, if the organizers ever receive warrant to search their premises based on their bdsm activities, the names of other people are not in jeopardy. If they are subpoenaed to hand over the lists, on the advice of their attornies, they will do so.
When bdsm groups say "we're not doing anything wrong," and want to be recognized as a social group, it is more adviseable, according to the lawyers around here to be above board regarding all the laws, not just the ones we choose to follow. In other words, if a group is operating as a membership only social club, then it follows that there is a membership list and if asked to present one, the groups can and should do so. The inability or refusal to do this is tantamount to admitting culpability in an illegal activity.
And according to those around here who used to run groups such as this, that's the reason why those lists exist. Groups are required to be cognizant of and responsible for the activities of their members when operating within the guise of that club.
According to them, while it has generally been more acceptable lately for entities such as bdsm groups to exist, the reality is that the legality of what it is we do is still significantly questionable. Each and every time we attend more public events, we are, in effect, making a decision regarding our jobs, families and everything else. Many, many of us have moral turpitude laws in place at our place of employment. It pays to never forget that. However, many of us still choose to participate, banking on the crap shoot of numbers that we won't have anything happen to us. However, it is more than understandable if relinquishing names and addresses just feels like too much of a risk. The bottom line is that if you don't want to be a part of something like that, then it is, of course, your perogative whether you attend or not, but no one is going to lose house and home because you didn't want to list the name and address of yours.
juliet
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