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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 8:14:31 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

Mercury componant Thimerosal doesn't cause autism? If that's the case, then why the need for a provision in the National Security Act to prevent lawsuits?


The National Security Act was passed in 1947.  If you meant the Homeland Security Act, please provide the section so the rest of us can read it.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/deptofhomeland/analysis/

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 8:26:22 AM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Mercury componant Thimerosal doesn't cause autism? If that's the case, then why the need for a provision in the National Security Act to prevent lawsuits?


The National Security Act was passed in 1947.  If you meant the Homeland Security Act, please provide the section so the rest of us can read it.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/deptofhomeland/analysis/

The fact that there are a lot of lawsuits doesn't mean there is hard proof - it just means there are a lot of folks who believe it is the cause of autism.

The case of a group of Amish not having as much autism as expected could be a difference in lifestyle, where the borderline cases don't show up due to differences in schooling, lack of exposure to TV, working at an early age, etc. 

There are a lot of folks who didn't vaccinate in the larger culture - that would be a better group to compare to.

As for these diseases not being a big thing - there are complications that can be quite severe.  And it's a real diaster when a pregnant woman is exposed to rubella.

thornhappy

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 8:29:34 AM   
IrishMist


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Tricky tricky tricky

I will be honest, I am on the fence about this one. I have been on the side that has had to go to homes and remove youngins from homes for not following health procedures with vaccinations; yet, I also know that there are some who do just fine without the vaccinations because the parents have used alternative means of strengthening the immune system.

Many of the diseases that are vaccinated against would come back in full force if the vaccinations stopped; I have seen this happen in some areas of the country over the years; small outbreaks due to nothing more than parents insisting on their rights only to become confused when their youngins come down with a disease that has not shown itself in years.

Yet at the same time, I don’t like arresting parents and putting them in jail for believing that they know what is best for their own.

It’s a tricky situation on both sides.

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 8:35:37 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		Sorry, Homeland Security Act.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0616-31.htm  http://www.mercola.com/2001/oct/31/mercury_lawsuit.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2002/dec/11/autism_liability.htm 
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2000/08/02/autism/

Oh, and by the way my son is autistic and he wasn't born with it. All his brain measurements are normal (no abnormalities in size). He was behind on his vaccines and they gave him 6 in one day to catch him up, promising that it wouldn't hurt him. Not only is my son autistic, he also has severe seizures from the mercury damaging his brain. His seizure medication doesn't always help and when he has one he has to have a tube shoved down his throat because he can't breathe on his own and he's unconscious for hours. Nobody knows how much longer he will live.



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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 8:35:54 AM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		For shame.
10% of people died at the turn of the century from preventable diseases.  Watch old films of kids dying from choking from diptheria, talk to mothers of kids dying in iron lungs, talk to fathers of kids dead from meningitis and chickenpox pneumonia, look at the 60 year olds in wheelchairs from polio,
And that's just on this continent.  3rd world countries are dying for what we have.

Vaccination has been irrefutably NOT linked to immunisation, trials after trials.

Look up 'herd immunity', take your soft alarmist non-science elsewhere or get an accredited MD degree, and get your kids immunised.  Even immunisation isn't 100% effective, so if your unimmunised kids give mine any preventable disease, you don't want to know what WILL happen.
100%.

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 8:52:12 AM   
KharmicCurse


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Status: offline 		Mercury componant Thimerosal doesn't cause autism? If that's the case, then why the need for a provision in the National Security Act to prevent lawsuits? Also, a UPI reporter conducted his own study by comparing a large group of Amish who don't believe in vaccination to the general population. Only four autistics were found when there should have been 130. Three of the four had been vaccinated (adoption or becoming Amish later) and the fourth one had been exposed to high levels of mercury at a power plant. I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe mercury destroys "mirror neurons." Oh, and there is conclusive data. Andy Waters, an attorney of the Waters & Kraus Law Firm has it.

Like Thorn said, a flurry of lawsuits does not a case make. Civil cases are much easier to win, there's no deadly consequence so juries are easily swayed towards the tear-jerker victim. And, once a few of them win and are awarded thousands, it's like blood in the water and other lawyers start hunting for the parents of autistics and there's your wealth of lawsuits.

Do you think the fact that Amish only marry and have children with Amish might not be a reason for the smaller number? The more DNA and genes and background you bring into a family tree, the more risk of genetic disease and hereditary illness you bring in. That's simple biology.

There wasn't just one or two tests done on the level of mercury after the firestorm in the 70s; there were tons, done by government and private groups alike. There was no more mercury in the vaccines back then than there is in common salt-water fish today. Does everyone that eats fish wind up with Autism? Are we going to start suing countries whos waters we catch them in as well?

It's easy to wave a paper around and shout you have a link, anyone can do that. And if it furthers their cause, plenty will. That goes for both sides. If there truly was some omgscary side effect, half the 30-50 year olds walking around today would have severe autism or whatever else people want to blame vaccinations for.

You don't want to vaccinate for whatever reason? Fine, but I want you and your kids to wear a shirt saying so, so I can keep mine away from yours. I'm not willing to let her be infected to preserve your rights and smart enough to know that Polio and TB don't really care how strong your home-grown immune system is. Schools push for vaccinations for the same reason daycares disallow feverish and sick kids to come in; sickness and disease spreads like wildfire in touchy, germy close quarters. If that bugs you, subtract your kid from the equation like thousands of other parents have. But don't bring in potential problems for those of us who are ok with playing by the rules set up to keep them safe.

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 8:53:01 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

For shame.


Yeah, for shame that I have to worry every day that my son will die because of mercury poisoning, for shame that he will never be normal because of mercury poisoning. Chickenpox (I believe the medical term for it is herpes zoster) is not deadly. Now something like polio I can see vaccinating for since it causes permanent damage. The point is, the less shots a child has the less chance of the child being autistic. Autism rates rose right along with the number of vaccines children receive.  

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 9:57:45 AM   
mistoferin


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Status: offline 		Fast reply ~

I have to wonder how many of the people debating this topic have ACTUALLY RESEARCHED both sides of the immunization argument or are responding based upon reading an article or two or even worse....responding without having actually made any attempt to learn the pros and cons at all.

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 10:35:52 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I had my son exempted for religious reasons... it is my religion that we should have freedom to decide what we put in our body, and vaccinations have possibly damaged a generation of children

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 10:37:03 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Fast reply ~

I have to wonder how many of the people debating this topic have ACTUALLY RESEARCHED both sides of the immunization argument or are responding based upon reading an article or two or even worse....responding without having actually made any attempt to learn the pros and cons at all.


I have researched the issue

_____________________________

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 2:27:44 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

Sorry, Homeland Security Act.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0616-31.htm  http://www.mercola.com/2001/oct/31/mercury_lawsuit.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2002/dec/11/autism_liability.htm 
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2000/08/02/autism/



I couldn't find the words you claim appeared in the law in any of those link.  Plenty of assertions, but no actual words in the Act saying that it is illegal for parents to sue over autism.

And citing RFK Jr. doesn't exactly inspire confidence either.
http://oracknows.blogspot.com/2005/06/saloncom-flushes-its-credibility-down.html

If there is a common cause to autism, it needs to be found, but I doubt that sending unvaccinated kids into the public schools with diptheria, measles, and other preventable diseases will accomplish that.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 11/17/2007 2:36:04 PM >

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 2:32:59 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		One of the problems that I have with vaccinations is that they vaccinate kids for some diseases that are not fatal along with the ones that are...

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 2:35:38 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Kind of hard to teach when half the students are out with chicken pox.

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 2:37:30 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Oh, please, nature didn't "intend" for us to type on the internet, either.  Why don't we still live in caves and eat roots and berries and bear shit?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

everybody, why is it that we are not allowed to develop our own immune systems as nature intended ?

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 2:50:45 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Oh, and by the way my son is autistic and he wasn't born with it.


....my best wishes. However, autism hardly ever, if at all, presents at birth. It takes a few years to show. Sadly it tends to present at about the same time as vaccinations come around. Hence all the poor science showing a correlation.

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 3:00:34 PM   
velvetears


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I had my son exempted for religious reasons... it is my religion that we should have freedom to decide what we put in our body, and vaccinations have possibly damaged a generation of children


Good for you julia!  i would not vaccinate my daughter right away when she was born because i did some research and read reports that said it wasn't safe, linking immunizations to leukemia, learning disabilities, ADHD and some others i have forgotten (it's been 18 yrs now). i do remember reading that we have in the US (18 years ago) about 6 cases of polio outbreak a year - and guess what - it's a reaction from the live polio vaccine.  You risk getting polio more from the shot then not.  Diseases run their course so the stats are skewed. You get an outbreak - take polio as an example. Doctors scramble for a cure or an immunization - takes years and lots and lots of people get the disease - panic erupts, paranoia, etc. Doctors and researchers tell the public of the immunization and hordes of them rush to get their kids immunized - polio cases decline. They would have anyway - had no vaccine been invented.  At least this is what i remember reading.  The countries with the highest immunization rates also have the highest childhhood disease rates like leukemia (US and Sweden) - let's trade PPD for leukemia!?!?! When i was growing up every kid got measles.  We survived. i can remember my brother had it and my mom made me spend a day with him so i would get it and it would be over with. i got chicken pox too and survived.  Get chicken pox as an adult and you're in trouble. 

i went to a very special doctor who understood my concerns with my own kids. He was a homeopath and he gave me 2 options. He would give me a remedy before the shot was administered to conter the poisonous effects of the immunization, and remedies after it was administered. Or he would give my kid the immunization, sign the paper and in reality it would be something else non toxic (a placebo) i choose the former, got the remedy and immunization.  Defiantbadgirl i have also ready about mercury poisoning and immunizations and the link to autism. Doctos don't tell parents the risks. There will be a certain percentage of kids who actually DIE because of immunizations, and some who become crippled. 

Also it's not easy to get religous objections established - you can't just sign a form you have to prove it - have a church to back you up.

Immunizations are toxins and poisons - some are made of piss, puss from deliberate infections they create on cows ets.  We realy don't know the long term effects but i bet the rise of autism and ADHD, learning disabilities etc will one day be proven to hjave a link. my kids are beyond the stage of immunizations so i have been out of the loop. i would not get the MMR for college entry as i had the damn measles - they gave me a blood test for my titer and i was allowed to enroll. Adults given the MMR are at risk for getting debilitating symptoms that can last a lifetime.  My own pov - less is better. The body has natural defense mechanisms if we allow them to work but we are so quick to run to the doctor each time we get a runny nose.  And irresponsib;e doctors are all too ready to hand patients scripts when they don't even know if something is viral or bacterial - unconscionable in my opinion.  Now we have strnads of everything non responsive to certain antibiotics - we have to develop new ones - and don't get me started on the idiots who "feel better" and don't finish their antibiotocs andruin it for the rest of us by actually making that strain actually stronger

< Message edited by velvetears -- 11/17/2007 3:04:35 PM >

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 3:19:46 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

went to a very special doctor who understood my concerns with my own kids. He was a homeopath


Then he wasn't a doctor.

quote:

Or he would give my kid the immunization, sign the paper and in reality it would be something else non toxic  


Then he was a criminal.

quote:

...i do remember reading that we have in the US (18 years ago) about 6 cases of polio outbreak a year - and guess what - it's a reaction from the live polio vaccine.   You risk getting polio more from the shot then not. 

When i was growing up every kid got measles.  We survived.


Not true. If less than 6 kids a year got polio there would be no need for immuniaztions, and the notion that everyone survives measles is beyond bogus.


"In 1952, when the polio epidemic was at its peak, 3,000 people died."
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/polio/DS00572

"In the pre-vaccine era in the United States, an estimated three to four million cases of measles occurred annually, and approximately 500,000 cases and 500 deaths were reported annually, with epidemic cycles every two to three years."
http://edcp.org/html/measles.html


< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 11/17/2007 3:20:15 PM >

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 3:25:45 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
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Status: offline 		i don't care what you want to call him. He was a healer and cared. my daughter had some kind of eye infection since birth and i had her to several pediatricians and specialists who gave me everything from eye drops to creams. Nothing worked. Finally one of them told me, with more confidence then he should have had, that she had a yeast infection in her eye from coming down the birth canal - should have seen his face when i told him she was a c-section - back to the drawing board... i think not. i took her to someone who actually cured her - that homeopath. 

< Message edited by velvetears -- 11/17/2007 3:26:35 PM >

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RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 3:42:31 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My son is now homeschooled and 17, has been homeschooled for about 2 years... therefore your entire missing school thingy does not apply to us anyways...

Since many of these diseases are not fatal, the evidence is that kids have been harmed by these immunizations and they have known side effects, I find it odd that you would insist that children be immunized because they might miss time off school... it just seems a very odd sort of infringement on a person's right to refuse treatment, especially for an elective procedure.. which immunizing against nonfatal diseases is an elective procedure

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Maryland: vaccinate your child or go to jail? - 11/17/2007 4:11:19 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Medical institutions wary of vaccine reactions often protect their members by enforcing the "pardon me" rule, exempting doctors from their own regulations. For example, in Evanston, Illinois, a 46-year-old social worker was fired from her job when she refused to take a rubella shot. Hospital policy requires all employees --except physicians -- to be vaccinated against rubella. Doctors are not considered "employees."(176) A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association reports that obstetrician-gynecologists are the least likely of all doctors to submit to the rubella vaccine. Fewer than 10 percent are inoculated, and blood tests indicate they are susceptible to rubella. The researchers conclude that a "fear of unforeseen vaccine reactions" lead these specialists to invoke their self-exempting "pardon me" rule.(177) Some doctors refuse to vaccinate their own children as well. According to Dr. Jerome Murphy, former head of Pediatric Neurology at Milwaukee Children's Hospital, "There is just overwhelming data that there's an association [between the pertussis vaccine and seizures]. I know it has influenced many pediatric neurologists not to have their own children immunized with pertussis."(178) The FDA recently lost an important legal battle when they permitted the live virus polio vaccine, manufactured by Lederle Labs, to be released to the public even though it did not meet existing safety standards. As a result, several people were severely damaged. After losing the U.S. Supreme Court case, the FDA immediately implemented the "pardon me" ploy, and rewrote its safety procedures so that previously unacceptable safety measures would be allowable. Consequently, Lederle can continue to produce and the FDA can continue to sanction the same kind of polio vaccine that caused injuries in the first place.(179)
They aren't telling us what we need to know and they are treating us all like idiots!  This is from   http://www.thinktwice.com/ploys.htm


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