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RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 10:44:40 AM

tyku

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlegrlatheart

I used to play with a Dom who I liked a lot, but sometimes after the scene I would have flashbacks and remember things that I hadn't remembered before, and didn't know if they happened or not. And sometimes there were gaps in time, or I would remember being in one place and then I'd be in another part of the room, without remembering how I got from one position to the next. He was into lots of weird stuff and I always wondered if he used hypnosis on me. So to answer your question, I only seemed to space out with him and he never admitted to using hypnosis. I certainly didn't "allow" it to happen.
I am a very suggestable person, so that makes me a bit worried.

Just.. relax. All of what you've written are simply the ways in which humans function. You don't have to know "hypnosis" in order to do hypnosis. Back to my original point for you.. Everyone goes in and out of trance states many times a day. You start driving to work.. and you begin to ..wonder about something else in your life.. which leads you to.. think of this other thing that you need to do.. and then.. before you know it.. you've arrived at work. Or, you're at home enjoying a nice hot bath.. and you might be thinking certain.. thoughts.. which can begin to.. form a scene in your minds eye.. that becomes more and more real.. with each passing second.. and the more real it becomes.. the more you feel good.. because the more you feel good.. the more real it becomes.. until you notice.. it must be time to get out.. and because you feel so good.. everything looks.. brighter and clearer.. than it did before your bath.

In fact, you probably were in a pretty good trance state at some point while reading the previous paragraph. There's nothing to worry about.. so you can just relax because you won't say or do anything in a trance state that you wouldn't do or say while in your normal trance state(or "completely conscious state" as most people refer to it).

What is consent? How does a person consent? Did you consent to hypnosis by reading this post? Did I consent to inducing hypnosis with you by typing out this post? Is all communication hypnotic? Am I inducing good or bad hypnotic outcomes with my communications? Are you inducing good or bad hypnotic outcomes with your communications?

.. Alright, I'm done rambling for now.. Go forth, and be of good cheer for soon you might die.

(in reply to littlegrlatheart)

Post #: 21

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 11:24:35 AM

Qithoras

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/28/2006
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

Qithoras: What stops you from using hypnosis to encourage your subs core essense to grow, and thrive even more than normal?

Yes, I can see that possibly working as a valid method, however spending time with girl, working together over a period of time, produces the same effects, even if it does take more time.
The key factor for this method is that it strengthens the relationship.

But perhaps I overthink it, I always assume the easiest path is the wrong one.

_____________________________

Knowing others is intelligence.
Knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength.
Mastering yourself is true power.

-Tao Te Ching

(in reply to tyku)

Post #: 22

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 11:57:35 AM

Aceton

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Joined: 9/2/2007
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*FR* If hypnosis works, how come people who can hypnotise others aren't ruling the entire world? How come there aren't private little hyponotised armies running about the place?

It all sounds a bit like magic to me...

(in reply to Qithoras)

Post #: 23

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 12:17:41 PM

Qithoras

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/28/2006
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

If hypnosis works, how come people who can hypnotise others aren't ruling the entire world? How come there aren't private little hyponotised armies running about the place?

Because from what I recall, hypnosis can only be used to make people do what they want to do, or are at least not opposed to. This is done on a subconcious level.

Survival instincts are fairly strong, I doubt you'd get a person to risk their life under hypnosis.

I hope that explains it for you.

_____________________________

Knowing others is intelligence.
Knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength.
Mastering yourself is true power.

-Tao Te Ching

(in reply to Aceton)

Post #: 24

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 2:24:49 PM

tyku

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Joined: 6/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Qithoras

quote:

Qithoras: What stops you from using hypnosis to encourage your subs core essense to grow, and thrive even more than normal?

Yes, I can see that possibly working as a valid method, however spending time with girl, working together over a period of time, produces the same effects, even if it does take more time.
The key factor for this method is that it strengthens the relationship.

But perhaps I overthink it, I always assume the easiest path is the wrong one.

I think that it depends on what you mean by "easiest method".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aceton

*FR* If hypnosis works, how come people who can hypnotise others aren't ruling the entire world? How come there aren't private little hyponotised armies running about the place?

It all sounds a bit like magic to me...

That is an excellent question, Aceton.

And, if you had read or understood my last post, you would already know the answer:

There's nothing to worry about.. so you can just relax because you won't say or do anything in a trance state that you wouldn't do or say while in your normal trance state(or "completely conscious state" as most people refer to it).

To address your last sentence:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Aceton, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Shakespeare w/some paraphrasing done by me.

(in reply to Qithoras)

Post #: 25

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 2:52:12 PM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
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This interests me...and I'm certain it would my Master...I'll have to research it and see how doable it is for He and I.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to tyku)

Post #: 26

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 4:46:48 PM

Qithoras

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/28/2006
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

I think that it depends on what you mean by "easiest method".

Personally I would find it easier to use hypnosis than spend the months/years needed otherwise. Although I don't claim to have much experience or knowledge on the subject, so perhaps it isn't based on all the facts it could be.

And perhaps to clarrify, I have been referring to hypnosis as the deliberate attempt to create an artifically induced trance like state, in which suggestions are easier to implant, I have not been referring to the day to day trances.

Hope this cleared it up for you tyku.

_____________________________

Knowing others is intelligence.
Knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength.
Mastering yourself is true power.

-Tao Te Ching

(in reply to tyku)

Post #: 27

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 5:04:24 PM

feralkyttin

Posts: 182
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline

Okay guyz.... Are you still making fun of me or are you helping me now? Oh, I don't care. It's HIGHLY entertaining if nothing else.

ahhhhh..... good peeeeeeople.   Gooooood friiieeeeeenndzzzz. Good family? LOL Sometimes. That was nice.

say that twice, say that twice, say it fifteen hundred times if you want!!! it's evidently up to you! AND ME! Okay.... You've stripped me of my pride Masters. Where do I need to go to get in line? LOL Get it? Get in line? Get it? BAIT! Are you people really this smart or am I in a fantasy land? Ahhhh......   I will let the Masters (men) take care of that affair. I know others who have daughters my age who think their own daughters are not only ALREADY DOING or ALREADY BEHAVING in a manner as the mother sees appropriate. What does the mother think? She thinks it is perfectly natural to follow men. She thinks her daughter is well suited to do so.

LOL

How's this, guys?

THANK YOU ALL FOR HELPING ME TO UNDERSTAND MYSELF. I would like to thank I as well. I does that sometimes. I R a wee bit strange. R U?

I get it, already. Sheesh. Thanks. Marry me. Worship me from a distance if you will. Ball gag me if you like. Hmm... as usual... said too much, taken in too little. This has been another wonderful reminder of my legal insanity brought to you by the MAGICAL people at COLLARME. Check out the gorean section, but try to walk softly.... or don't. Just try not to get killed along the way. YAY! FUN! PLAY! SPRING FORTH! PRECOCIOUS!

Where have ALL of you been for SO LONG?

LOL

You guys just mind raped me. You're dirty. Dirty dirty dirty filthy stinking nasty gooey squichy succulent moronic absolutely MANIC mind rapers. Stop that! SHAME! That.... is NAUGHTY!!! Didn't your MOTHER LOVE you enough to teach you any better?

okay....

Check this one out: *flops it out for ya, right her*

Looky: The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence. The evidence of absence...... I likely subject to change when I'm around! WOOHOO!! You like it? I do!!! LET US PLAY MORE!!! DANCE NAKY! JUNGLE FARK! FUNNY STRANGE CREATURES RUN RAMPANT IN MY BRAIN!   ahhhhh...... You have permission to join me, now.... If you can still tolerate me. *shrugz* Or don't. Just push me away. *sighz*

*Doesn't cry, though* WOOHOO!

H'lo world. How're you? I'm half way tolerable. WHAT? What do you mean I'm halfway INtolerable, WORLD? You MAKA ME CONFUSEDEDED!!!! Seriously.... knock it off. Or come make me. I'm SO EMBARRASSED because I AM ADMITTING ALOT OF THINGS that I have never quite had the courage to SAY OUT LOUD or TO PEOPLE FACES.

ahhh.... this really does feel like homework, now.   pass the red ink, please? *blushes* Nevermind.... scratch that or I'll scratch you.   Please see the provider of this opinion before accepting it. If you are not willing to do that, don't accept it. You are allowed to make mistakes. So am I.... for now, still. *nudge nudge, when it's appropriate*

I'd have to say that Wittgenstein's writings are a lot more fundamental, although the direct impact on our lives is very rarely realized, and will not become apparent to most for about a century or so, I imagine, depending on how soon the AI folks turn their approach inside out. Not only are words once removed from semantics, but semantics are twice removed from reality, if not more. Bearing that in mind is very useful at times.

(in reply to tyku)

Post #: 28

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 5:16:40 PM

Qithoras

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/28/2006
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

Wow... Hyperactive.

_____________________________

Knowing others is intelligence.
Knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength.
Mastering yourself is true power.

-Tao Te Ching

(in reply to feralkyttin)

Post #: 29

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/24/2007 11:23:48 PM

tyku

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qithoras

quote:

I think that it depends on what you mean by "easiest method".

Personally I would find it easier to use hypnosis than spend the months/years needed otherwise. Although I don't claim to have much experience or knowledge on the subject, so perhaps it isn't based on all the facts it could be.

And perhaps to clarrify, I have been referring to hypnosis as the deliberate attempt to create an artifically induced trance like state, in which suggestions are easier to implant, I have not been referring to the day to day trances.

Hope this cleared it up for you tyku.

Imagine, if you will, that you're making a wooden desk from scratch for the first time. You've got the wood. You've got your nails. You've got all the tools you'll require for the project.. but you don't have a hammer. Now, you can use another tool to perform the function of a hammer.. but none of them will be as effective at hammering in nails as a hammer is.

Like any wood worker, I have many tools to choose from so that I can apply the right tool to the right function. Like anyone who uses tools, it takes time to learn the limits of the tools that I have access to. Like any tool, hypnosis is only as effective as the person utilizing it, and the effectiveness of that tool for the media that it is being used to help shape.

I could spend hours using a metal c clamp(or worse: my shoe) to bang in the nails to put the desk together.. or I could spend an hour buying a new hammer and then use that to significantly reduce the amount of time I would've had to spend otherwise.

Likewise, I could spend days, weeks, even months using my hard earned knowledge of classical and operant conditioning(or worse: a non-directive therapeutic psychotheology) to help guide someone to feel comfortable around non-threatening clowns instead of going ape-shit with fear any time they see a friendly non-threatening clown.. Or.. I could spend at most a few hours with someone using a tool called hypnosis to help them reach the exact same outcome.

Now, I'm not saying it's an "either this or that" kind of thing. I think each tool should be applied where, when, and how it's most appropriate. A hammer without a nail is not good for making a desk. A nail(.. isn't a that a tool too?) without a hammer is not good for making a desk either..

Just two more cents.

(in reply to Qithoras)

Post #: 30

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/25/2007 10:53:49 AM

Qithoras

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/28/2006
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

Hrmm, well that certaintly opens up a few different things.

I can see what you're getting at, and can respect it, however it still seems to be a distant method. Using the most efficient method to build a table is fine, but then, a table doesn't have feelings.

I don't know, perhaps I'm a romantic, but I believe in the idea the destination is only half as important as the journey.

_____________________________

Knowing others is intelligence.
Knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength.
Mastering yourself is true power.

-Tao Te Ching

(in reply to tyku)

Post #: 31

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/25/2007 11:48:03 AM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

I don't know, perhaps I'm a romantic, but I believe in the idea the destination is only half as important as the journey.

Yep...I can't possibly add anything to that.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to Qithoras)

Post #: 32

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/25/2007 6:45:09 PM

tyku

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

Overall, I have found that the journey and the destination are equally as important to me. There are, for example, a lot of times where we don't have much choice over our destinations or the methods by which we make our journeys, and we can almost always choose how we subjectively experience our journeys, and our destinations. I think that it would be a life-impoverishing choice to use this to say that your "destination" is half as important as your "journey".

(in reply to breatheasone)

Post #: 33

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/25/2007 7:06:35 PM

Prismfire

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Joined: 11/5/2007
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Ah the love hate thing, Most hypnotheraphists have a love hate relationship with Stage hypnotists who have infact actually made the subject of hypnosis more publically known while giving the illusion that all hypnosis is "mind control" True mind control exists only in brainwashing situations where duress is induced by lack of food, sleep and or basic nessecities.

Actually a subject does not always have to want to do something... They do have to have a benefit in the action either real or percieved. If there is a benefit in it for them, concious, subconsious, real or percieved then they will accept the suggestion. If they percieve no benefit on any of the abovementioned levels even if the suggestion is ultimately good for them they will not respond to either the hypnosis or the suggestion. Its rather fascinating how that works really. The bottom line is that 90% of a hypnotists job is to get the subject to believe that what they do holds a benefit for them. Even in play or D/s this is true.

(in reply to Aceton)

Post #: 34

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/25/2007 7:16:52 PM

Prismfire

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Joined: 11/5/2007
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Being someone who consistently watches for these kinds of things I would actually say that its fairly common for Dominants to use NLP specifically unconciously to create a desired result. When you consider that NLP is actually copied from some of the greatest communicators of our time you could see it as effective communication techniques. This is really only one aspect of it however its very powerful. Most good communicators use it in some shape form or fashion already. I have been in situations both in power exchange and outside of it where people have used NLP and hypnosis both deliberately and without conciously knowing what they were doing and where the people it was used on were both aware and not aware of how these techniques were being used. I have noticed that awareness of the techniques tends to highlight them a bit more for the person they are being used on.

I personally strongly dislike any reference to *mind control* as to achieve that you need extreme duress of some kind for a prolonged period of time. I prefer to refer to it as persuasive manipulation. LOL After all thats the basis of what hypnotists do really ... create new beliefs or revamp old beliefs to open up new perspectives.

(in reply to MissBathsheba)

Post #: 35

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/26/2007 11:39:56 PM

littlegrlatheart

Posts: 12
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

You all sound so intelligent.

(in reply to Prismfire)

Post #: 36

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/27/2007 4:42:27 PM

RickC

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Joined: 10/10/2006
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I use hypnosis for training and playtime. The training time is shortened with great results. Leaves more time to play. I have trained other Sub/Slaves for their Masters and have had many raves from both Dom and Sub. The pleasures are heightened, the senses are enhanced, so the pleasures are increased to a new level and the discipline is controlled from any distance even over the phone. You discuss your limits and the imagination takes care of the rest. Consensual is always best.The pleasure are limitless, in pain, bondage, humiliation, extreme submission, orgasm on command, pleasure on command. sensory deprivation, and on goes the list of things that can be accomplished using command triggers for the mind. Obedience with hypnosis is very powerful, making a Sub even more submissive and obedient. Again I stress Consensual is very important, not only for trust,(which is No.#1 in my book) but for many other issues as well.

(in reply to MissBathsheba)

Post #: 37

RE: Hypnosis and Mind Control? - 11/27/2007 4:54:56 PM

RickC

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Joined: 10/10/2006
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With stage hypnosis there is one thing people forget about. One all of the participants gave permission when they walked up onto the stage. So in fact when they gave permission, it made it easier and much more effective show. The stage hypnotist doesn't have to manipulate the subjects, they agreed to be hypnotized and just about every stage hypnotist Iknow explains what he intends on doing, So when the subjects walk up on stage, in essence they are giving permission to the hypnotist to get them to do what he wants for a great show....Thus Entertainment!
When you have a willing subject the results are much more effective. Yes, someone can be manipulated but where is the trust, unless you want a one night stand. Long term, hypnosis works better and is more effective when you have a consensual SUBject. You can get them to CUM with alot more intensity and they will be more preDICKtible for the outcum. Excuse my pun....

(in reply to RickC)

Post #: 38

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