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Just a quick question - 8/9/2005 10:30:41 AM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		We have been contacted by 3 Doms in the last week, asking us to Dominate them. I'm confused by this. One said that he wished to explore his submissive side, and when I said that we aren't interested, suddenly he knew that he was really a slave at heart and he would be the perfect slave for us - he would put his all into it. The next ... I'll refrain from telling you what he said - suffice it to say that he was rather graphic about what he was willing to have done to him (read that as 'what he wanted done to him'). The one today started his off with "I'm really a switch" and went on to become about as graphic as the second one.

My question for you Doms out there is: how common is this? This is something that we have run across many many MANY times during our search, and I'm wondering if it's the same concept as the 'nilla boys who just want to hook up with a F/F couple so they pretend to be submissive (which I lost count of after the first month of our search), or if these guys really need to post as switches instead of Doms ... It also seems to be Doms who are older than we are - much older. The ages of the three guys this time are 39, 40 and 42. Is this maybe something like a midlife crisis?
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/9/2005 10:55:16 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes
My question for you Doms out there is: how common is this?


From what I have seen of the Doms contacting Elle, it is rather common. The messages from "Dom-only" men contacting her with tales of how they fell to their knees (for the first time in their lives, of course) in front of the computer screen when they read her profile are kinda funny...if they weren't so sad.

I think it is an any port in the storm search for kinky sex...

Taggard


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to SweetDommes)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/9/2005 11:01:28 AM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
From what I have seen of the Doms contacting Elle, it is rather common. The messages from "Dom-only" men contacting her with tales of how they fell to their knees (for the first time in their lives, of course) in front of the computer screen when they read her profile are kinda funny...if they weren't so sad.

I think it is an any port in the storm search for kinky sex...

Taggard



I kinda figured - although we haven't had anything so ... hmmm... absurd maybe? ... as to have anyone claim that they fell to their knees in front of our profile when they read it ...

Interestingly enough, one of the most "Domly" men I know from another site just posted over there that he wants to try bottoming ... my jaw hit the desk when I read it.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/9/2005 11:59:57 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty


I think it is an any port in the storm search for kinky sex...

Taggard



I think it is the pejorative associations we have in general with submissive men. "Domly" men are seen as surpemely masculine, and submissive men are the antithesis of that andreai we value in men both culturally at large and in BDSM culture.

Many men who want to bottom/submit don't have the courage to admit it, just as many women who are "dommes" are really submissive women afraid of giving up control to a man.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/9/2005 12:41:30 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		You didn't ask me. However I can tell you from a submissive seeking a dom at one time. It is quite common.
After talking to someone for any length of time who claimed to be dominant. When they were taken out of the running for whatever indiscretion they did. Most would drop to their knees and beg to be my submissive. Just to be with me period.
Never quite got it when I said I was looking for a dom, and really was at that time.

There are plenty of regular posters here on the board’s who would do the same thing if put in the circumstance. Just switches in disguise. How can they ever be honest with you if they cannot be honest with themselves?

(in reply to SweetDommes)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/10/2005 7:46:22 PM   
ehlovindom


Posts: 248
Joined: 1/23/2004
Status: offline 		It is only common among HNG's to pretend to be a Dom, then discover that they still can't get women, so they "switch" to being a sub and fail there. If a dom wishes to explore his submisisve side, he would not go about it in the way you describe your experience. At least, that is my opinion for what is worth, (priceless to me, for others?)

_____________________________

Know which bridge to build, which one to cross, and which one to burn!

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/10/2005 7:57:02 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It is only common among HNG's to pretend to be a Dom, then discover that they still can't get women, so they "switch" to being a sub and fail there.


Whatever you want to call them they are predominant all over the net. In person as well.

(in reply to ehlovindom)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/10/2005 8:41:02 PM   
RavenofPK


Posts: 320
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings,

I was going to leave this alone, due to my harsh outlook on the subject. So just be prepared.

I cannot speak to how common this is. I would like to believe that it isn't, because the whole concept disgusts me. I have learned, over the years to temper my disgust over submissive men who start that way. But men, who claim dominance, and then drops to their knees, is beyond contempt. Be what you say you are. And before any of you gals come riding in, guns a blazen, man bashing........remember.......the deceit goes both ways. Women are just as guilty as men are at deceiving. Women are just better at covering it up. Now that I think of it, perhaps that makes women more guilty.

Raven

(in reply to SweetDommes)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/10/2005 11:16:50 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

I think it is an any port in the storm search for kinky sex...


I agree strongly with this. But at the same time, not all are just trying whatever works. I've had many many Dom ask to sub to me, and I've actually taken a few up on it. Those were friends who were having a rough patch and needed to give up control. It helped them get their feet back under them and de-stress. Once they were feeling a little better they went back to their subs, able to again be the pillar of strength and arbiter of all.

Also, I think more people are switches then let on. So often, switches are considered dilettantes.. Players who can't make up their minds. That is unfortunate, as BDSM is what each person makes of it and others shouldn't judge how someone chooses to live. Most of the switches I know have thin skin over the matter. Anyone who has a problem with people switching (I know you don't Sweet, this is in general) should read http://www.xeromag.com/fvbdswitch.html

As to the misogynistic and vitriolic tone of RavenofPK's post and his stated disgust of male submissives.. I find it sad that anyone is so intolerant of how others practice BDSM.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/11/2005 3:23:14 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		I only know personally of one "dom" who'd now rather submit and he's done a most excellent job of ruining his relationship with a fem/sub who never switches. Not that that minor detail hinders his own selfish desires and motives.... And he's in his early 40's, too!

But no, it's not a mid-life crisis as I certainly had my troubles but switching never was or will be an option. I think it's more about a correction in Nature's balance as there always seems to be way more Doms to fem/subs out there and way too many male subs to Dommes....

Whether it's come about through calculating deceit or a naive perception that you initially get to choose a role rather than the role chooses you is anyone's guess.... Maybe you're discovering what happens to the excess of male doms - they don't just grow older; they switch!

Focus50.

(in reply to SweetDommes)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/11/2005 5:12:51 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		I'm amazed at the heat this topic has generated. I don't have much online experience but I've been doing this in the face to face world since 1964 and have written a few books about it.

In my experience, switching seems to occur as people gain more experience in the scene. Most of my friends like Janet Hardy, Dossie Easton, Jack Rinella, Jay Wiseman and even my wife are switches to one degree or another. Frankly, sometimes it bothers me that I seem to be "orientation challenged" and just can't get into a submissive mindset.

Oh, I know there are a few "I wanta get laid" types who will claim anything, but most of the switches I know are good people who are following their needs and desires.

God knows, anyone in the scene should honor people who are willing to be open about their needs and desires.

(in reply to Focus50)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/11/2005 5:57:34 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		I think the reason it generates so much heat when this topic comes up (and it does from time to time), is because in many cases there was deception involved. Its not that a person is a switch that causes the problem, but rather someone who presents themselves as a dominant and then while pursuing someone suddenly "discovers" they have a submissive side and really want to be a slave. This isn't switch hitting, its someone changing tactics in the pursuit of the object of their current desire, which is pretty disengenuine. BTW, this seems to be far more of a problem online than offline and I suspect thats because many of these "newfound submissives" are really desparate vanilla types trying to obtain sex and/or affection any way they can and the internet makes that kind of deception easy.

As for how common place switching is, or that there are those of us for whom switching is not appealing personally, I've got a rough theory on that but not something I think I could coherently post in the forum. If you're interested I can email you with my thoughts on it.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/11/2005 8:01:55 AM   
Fidelity


Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		Some people will make any compromise to get thier rocks off.

Most of the hard core Doms I know of would rather die slowly and painfully, than compromise who they KNOW they are. I call this "core knowledge".

What you are seeing are merely opportunists, playing games with you.

I really have to wonder if these guys are either.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Just a quick question - 8/11/2005 8:57:25 AM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline 		My personal opinion is that you've run into an increasingly common phenomena, the sensation slut. As the masses become more aware of the ability to access the online BDSM community, I expect this to become even more prevalent. One need only spend a little time at the "largest BDSM personals site" to see how difficult it can become to avoid those who will claim anything in order to fill their need for new sensations.
Timothy

(in reply to SweetDommes)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/11/2005 10:02:08 AM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
I'm amazed at the heat this topic has generated. I don't have much online experience but I've been doing this in the face to face world since 1964 and have written a few books about it.


Holy crap, John Warren!!!

Sorry, but I always push your book (The Loving Dominant) to any new dom I speak with, and I think it's cool that you pop up on this website.

I hope you stick around and become one of the regulars!!!

Sorry for the thread jack...we now return you to your regular scheduled programming.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Just a quick question - 8/11/2005 10:07:24 AM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		I really didn't intend for this question to cause any kind of flame war or argument or anything (and I thank everyone for not starting a flame war after a certain post).

I was simply curious. For anyone who doesn't know - Beach is correct about me having no problems with switches, mostly because I am one. However, I do have a thing about being honest about who you are - and of course, that means that you have to be honest with yourself first.
None of the guys in my initial example were being honest about themselves - one started out with something that I would consider acceptable (I'm a Dom, I'd like to experience the other side) and then changed his story - the others were just flat out dishonest (I know my profile says Dom, but I'm really a switch - and I still won't tell you what the other one said).
The guy I mentioned from the other site - if he were closer, I might consider Topping him: he's honest about the fact that he wishes to experience the bottom side of a scene, he's got a few limits (that some of the other Dommes were rather rude about mis-interpretting, blah), but other than those few, he's open to whatever. He has also been someone that I have talked to off and on since we first got into this lifestyle 5 years ago, so I would say that I know him rather well.
I will NOT Top someone that I have just met online (no matter what they claim to be) and personally, I don't understand people who expect me to - and all three of the ones who approached us did.

I'm not offended by the approaches, but I am frustrated with the lack of honesty and integrity that it shows. I would much rather be with a man who knows who and what he is and accepts it and is willing to go for it despite what people like ravenofpk say about him, than someone who can't even be honest with himself about who he is. I can get past a lot of 'issues' - but being unable to accept yourself for who you are is not one of them... I went through a few years where I was not honest with myself about who I am, and there was some serious self-loathing going on. Honestly, I still hate the person that I was at that time ... but now, I know who I am, I accept who I am, and I have been attempting to find what it is that I need and want - to hell with what others say. I managed this in a space of less than 10 years ... these people who have been contacting us have had far longer to figure things out, as they have all (from every site) been at least 10 years older than I am and apparently still haven't figured out how to be honest with themselves.

(in reply to domtimothy46176)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/11/2005 2:26:22 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren: Frankly, sometimes it bothers me that I seem to be "orientation challenged" and just can't get into a submissive mindset.



You're not the only one who feels this way. I consider it a personal failing of mine that I can't give up control. Flexibility is strength, not weakness. There are things I can know by being told, but never understand as a Dominant. It stunts my viewpoint.

As with other things in my life, when I see a problem I work on it. The link I provided in my prior post was part of what I found in trying to research switching. I am married now, and will never have a Dom, as my husband is not temperamentally suited to the role. I have been considering well negotiated role play, where each of us know exactly what is expected and what to expect. I'm not sure if love and trust will work or if I'd just be going through the motions. I'm also not sure what it would do to him psychologically, since he'd not do well with the thought of "hurting" me. There is no question of having an outsider play with me even if I could trust them, as that would definitely emotionally damage him. Conundrum.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Just a quick question - 8/11/2005 7:28:13 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress
You're not the only one who feels this way. I consider it a personal failing of mine that I can't give up control. Flexibility is strength, not weakness. There are things I can know by being told, but never understand as a Dominant. It stunts my viewpoint.


But isn't that part of what attracts you to those who can submit? I, like you, am unable to submit, but I don't consider it a weakness...I consider it one of those differences that make the world go round.

I love soft, round, beautiful breasts...but I wouldn't want to have them.

Vive la difference!

Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 8/11/2005 7:37:16 PM >

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to BeachMystress)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Just a quick question - 8/12/2005 3:46:42 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

But isn't that part of what attracts you to those who can submit? I, like you, am unable to submit, but I don't consider it a weakness...I consider it one of those differences that make the world go round.

I love soft, round, beautiful breasts...but I wouldn't want to have them.

Vive la difference!

Taggard

I wouldn't have thought this possible a few months ago but I have to agree with Taggard here....

I'm also a 100% hetero male and the thought of my being female, for example, grosses me out. I'd never wanna be what I'm attracted to and in that regard, it's quite comforting that the fella in the mirror *IS* "orientation challenged", as JohnWarren phrased it....

Focus50.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Just a quick question - 8/12/2005 4:02:27 AM   
lovingmaster45


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Holy crap, John Warren!!!

Sorry, but I always push your book (The Loving Dominant) to any new dom I speak with, and I think it's cool that you pop up on this website.


That was my response too Taggard.

Nice to see you here John; sorry we will not be able to see you at Black rose this year; but I am working on a new presentation for 2006.....now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

I started at 15 on the bottom. My Mistress was my HS typing teacher. We were discovered and my mom was on the school board that fired her...so much for hiding the kink. In this situation, I was VERY much the sex slave to her every whim. I worshiped her. Being sent to Lake Junaluska for "christian counseling" did little to change me; but it did scare me into semi-conformity for over 20 years.

The situation presented here is very different from a young person growing into their own as either a dom or a sub; it is about deceit. It is also about people just looking for any prot in the storm. Lonely horny men who are trying to get laid. Want to bet on whether they already have a SO?

Having said that, anyone can be properly trained to "fake it'> I have trained several subs to play the role of domina for profit and they do quite well at it. Men are so easy; just pay some attention to them and their cock and you can manipulate the hell out of them.

The ones who have contacted the OP are just pathetic little boys looking to get laid...move on.


_____________________________

Master Jerry


(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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