To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 9:32:51 AM)

I was talking with another s-type person that posts here on the phone yesterday and we started to talk about the struggles within our submission to our d-types, and how this has led to not only personal growth, but the growth of our relationships with others (including, but not limited to our d-types).

For this s-type person (I am not going to name her unless she wants to be named) her struggles were a part of her growth, and her submission is in some ways defined by that. I have been thinking about this concept, and I find this is very true of me, I tend to get the most out of life when I have to go through some struggling... whether it is to get a good job, a degree, parenthood, or my D/s dynamic. Now I that does not mean that I want my life to be nothing but struggling, but I believe struggling has its place.

I am curious to know if those of you that have went through struggles in your dynamics found growth through them, or if you believe struggling is just something to be avoided? Do any d-types make their s-types struggle intentionally so as to foster growth in them? If you are an s-type have you found growth because your d-type created situations that caused you to struggle?

Over the last few months I have had some struggles on all fronts in my life, and I came out the other side of that knowing that All is Well no matter what, even when there are struggles. I have begun to find metaphors for this.. such as your immune system does not get stronger unless it is challenged by illness once in a while, what does not kill you makes you stronger. Another metaphor is building up fitness and training yourself, in order to become stronger one must challenge their body to be more, they must struggle. I cannot believe the growth and happiness I have found through these struggles.. the peace that I have, and the knowing that no matter what I am ok.

Your thoughts...

Disclaimer for those who find no struggle in their relationships, I am not saying that your experience is invalid and that the only way to grow is through struggling... just relating my experience and wondering if others have had the same.



LadyLynx -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 9:39:39 AM)

A general comment: struggling, figuring out your identity,(to your self and to others.) is all part of the journey of life. As with all journeys, it is not the destination that is important, but the path itself. I feel that we are never truly complete, we are always learning, and discovering the joys and rewards of our journey.



sexyred1 -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 9:44:11 AM)

Not everyone who struggles with issues in life finds happiness on the other side, no matter how hard they try and how intelligent they might be; all is NOT well for some people. There is that unknown entity called luck that plays a part in life, that is always, always discounted when people speak of troubles and struggling and breaking through.

Sometimes you can work your ass off to fix things and make things better and even if you are a wonderful person, luck can kick your ass by not being there. Other people who never struggle or try a thing, sometimes walk into wonderful situations because luck was there waiting. So struggle was never part of their equation.

That is my take on it.



juliaoceania -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 9:52:25 AM)

I do not think you understand my use of "All is Well"... it is a spiritual concept to me that helps me accept where I am while continuing on to where I would like to be... as LadyLynx stated, it is the journey, not the destination.

I suppose I am trying to get to the place where my inner life is not impacted by what is going on outside of me.. my peace of mind and joy are a choice I make in every moment of every day... I want to get to the point where what is happening inside is not impacted by anyone else ever again.

I am beginning to look at the struggles for the contrast I need to appreciate when things are going the way I like... even the struggles have value is what I am trying to say. And since I believe that this life is not the only reality, there is nothing that happens here that is wrong or bad for me anymore... nothing, not a single thing... and I know most people do not view it that way, and I respect their view, but it is not my own...



ChainedExistence -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 10:01:35 AM)

 I imagine most people highly value what comes about as the result of hard work and sacrifice, and struggling certainly helps you be appreciative once the struggle is over and there is calm. At the same time, the struggle itself has to end at some point, or it becomes too much of a burden- toxic relationships can fall under this category. How long is long enough to keep trying to make something work out? That's often a hard question to answer. Do you stick it out in a marriage or relationship that's been a struggle for a year, for five years, for ten years, for twenty? For me, it took nearly 25 years to finally say I had enough of a relationship that was a daily struggle. In some ways I am sorry I let the struggling go on for so long, but it also makes me value the happiness that is mine now.



sexyred1 -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 10:02:39 AM)

Are you saying that this life is not the only "reality" because there is another life beyond for you? If that is your belief, then I can see why you would be more at peace with whatever struggles you have in this life; some people believe that there are more lives for them to struggle/not struggle in.

For me, there is only this particular life, no life after, so whatever happens here, stays here and has to be dealt with, and struggled with.

I do applaud you for trying to get to a place where nothing from outside influences affects you on the inside, that would be a great thing to accomplish. It is also easier done when you are loved and not alone, is it not?



sexyred1 -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 10:04:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainedExistence

I imagine most people highly value what comes about as the result of hard work and sacrifice, and struggling certainly helps you be appreciative once the struggle is over and there is calm. At the same time, the struggle itself has to end at some point, or it becomes too much of a burden- toxic relationships can fall under this category. How long is long enough to keep trying to make something work out? That's often a hard question to answer. Do you stick it out in a marriage or relationship that's been a struggle for a year, for five years, for ten years, for twenty? For me, it took nearly 25 years to finally say I had enough of a relationship that was a daily struggle. In some ways I am sorry I let the struggling go on for so long, but it also makes me value the happiness that is mine now.


Struggle is not only about relationships; it is also about career goals, dreams you have for your life, family, hopes you had.

So to say give up on your dreams and career, is not the same as saying, break off a relationship. How does one break off a relationship with themselves?



juliaoceania -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 10:20:59 AM)

quote:

Are you saying that this life is not the only "reality" because there is another life beyond for you? If that is your belief, then I can see why you would be more at peace with whatever struggles you have in this life; some people believe that there are more lives for them to struggle/not struggle in.

For me, there is only this particular life, no life after, so whatever happens here, stays here and has to be dealt with, and struggled with.


I do not believe in the Christian stuff, but my beliefs are so complicated and it is not the reason for the OP anyways..I respect your beliefs, and if they serve you then that is good for you... my beliefs serve me and are good for me.. there is no right or wrong for me in spirituality

quote:

I do applaud you for trying to get to a place where nothing from outside influences affects you on the inside, that would be a great thing to accomplish. It is also easier done when you are loved and not alone, is it not?



So many are loved and unhappy because they do not love themselves... on the other hand if one loves themselves it is rather easy to see it when they are loved... I am very loved by many people, and I appreciate and love them in return. I could not see that when I was not loving myself though. The greatest love of all is the love we have for ourselves... sounds like a trite song but there is a lot of truth to that in my eyes.

If I found myself loveless tomorrow I would still love me.. so I guess I will never be without "love". If you are speaking of the love my Daddy, I prize it highly.. but I did not know he still felt love for me until very recently... and All was Well, even though I struggled with the grief of that.. and struggle I did.



MistressDoMe -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 10:22:26 AM)

Very well stated sexyred, I don't like to compartmentalize my life.
All area's in my life are interrelated for my emotional well being, and if
I am struggling in one area it does affect other area's.



juliaoceania -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 10:26:03 AM)

the main questions of my post remain unanswered...

Do dominants make their submissive struggle on purpose?

As a submissive have you benefitted from struggles that your dominant made for you?



juliaoceania -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 10:32:13 AM)

quote:

For me, it took nearly 25 years to finally say I had enough of a relationship that was a daily struggle. In some ways I am sorry I let the struggling go on for so long, but it also makes me value the happiness that is mine now.


Yes... the contrast is the thing to value in that situation...smiles.




MistressDoMe -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 10:35:00 AM)

I sometimes make my submissive struggle on purpose.
But I don't use this tactic, often.










n



sexyred1 -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 10:45:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

[


So many are loved and unhappy because they do not love themselves... on the other hand if one loves themselves it is rather easy to see it when they are loved... I am very loved by many people, and I appreciate and love them in return. I could not see that when I was not loving myself though. The greatest love of all is the love we have for ourselves... sounds like a trite song but there is a lot of truth to that in my eyes.

If I found myself loveless tomorrow I would still love me.. so I guess I will never be without "love". If you are speaking of the love my Daddy, I prize it highly.. but I did not know he still felt love for me until very recently... and All was Well, even though I struggled with the grief of that.. and struggle I did.


Everyone does that that trite statement, if you LOVE yourself, you cannot be without love. I beg to differ. I myself have a wonderful family, no one loves me more than my beloved parents, my brothers, my sister in laws, my nieces and nephews and the few good friends I have made and kept in life.

While all of those loves are valuable, none of them are the type of love that an adult seeks of the romantic type and the type that holds you at midnight.

And yes, I can love myself to death, but it is quite trite to keep telling people to love themselves, believe me, I think I am fabulous but it is cold here right now without my own LOVE.

Sorry, screwed up Julia's above quote boxes!



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 11:53:03 AM)

Again due to my age it's so hard to differentiate what I learned and grew as part of my submission or domination and what I learned and grew as just part of me. 

There are a lot of struggles that helped me grow in some way, but I don't define my submission or domination in terms of struggles.  That edges too close to the martyr/sacrifice fetish that a lot of people tend to have for me.

Some struggles just suck and are life's ways of smacking you on the head and showing you how stupid you are.

Some struggles are just life crap that happens and you mourn and move through life as best you can.

And mostly, I don't SEEK struggle.  I've found life will give me more than enough on its own that I don't have to look for mountains to climb or limits to cross to encounter them.



laurell3 -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 12:10:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

the main questions of my post remain unanswered...

Do dominants make their submissive struggle on purpose?

As a submissive have you benefitted from struggles that your dominant made for you?


Of course, pushing limits, pushing preceived ways of thinking, supporting someone to change negative attitudes, those are all making someone struggle on purpose and desired for me at least.     Furthering the trust in the relationship by creating more difficult situations and responding appropriately to concerns or fears is one thing, purposefully throwing up roadblocks and watching someone attempt to go around is another.  I don't desire or have the energy to work though intentional chaos, as others stated, I have enough of that given freely by fate.



camille65 -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 12:19:40 PM)

I've struggled with many things in my life but being submissive or submitting is not one of them. Actually I don't really understand when people say that submission/slavery isn't easy, I feel like I just slid into place.But I struggle with relationships and other things that submission effects, just not the submission itself.



BeingChewsie -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 12:44:02 PM)

Quick reply:

R never intentionally creates things to make me struggle. I struggled early on but our dynamic was very different then from now. I struggled more with his rather rigid terms that I had to live by, now they are second nature. I guess I have grown from them. I don't focus on it though. We are all about making things simple and easy so we can enjoy peace and serenity without stress in the dynamic, life throws enough curve balls without intentionally creating them in the one place we believe should be an oasis for both partners.



slaveofKaos -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 12:58:21 PM)

My Master constantly makes me struggle. He does not do it on purpose, but things the he chooses for me I struggle with, either because the task itself is something I struggle with, or a topic I struggle with, there are so many things. Most of it is a good struggle the type, the type when all is said and done thing are ok and woud have been regardless. Then there is constant struggle, the struggle where I have yet to get through it and wonder if I ever will. I believe some struggle can be good, but I definatly believe there are people out there who struggle all there life and I don't believe that is good struggle.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 3:12:23 PM)

Struggle, in any form or situation, isn't to be avoided in my belief system. It's how we learn and grow. I believe we contracted to learn certain lessons in our lives...so, if we don't learn them the first time around, they just come back around again...and sometimes with a 2x4 upside the head.

Master Fire



Celeste43 -> RE: To Struggle or Not To Struggle, That is The Question (11/18/2007 3:16:25 PM)

I think it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said that a woman is like a tea bag, she doesn't know how strong she is until she's in hot water. So yes, from struggle you can learn things.

However I doubt the kind of struggling you are talking about includes the victims of the Rwanda massacres, Darfur, the Holocaust, the Turkish genocide of the Armenian people, etc.



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