RE: "we" as an example (Full Version)

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LivingInSin -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 11:17:05 AM)

Wow Syn, you really took this one and ran with it huh? :)
Heres my take on things.....regardless of what is being shown on TV shows about anything some may consider "mainstream" ie...bikers, witches, the leather community or anything it is still the responsibility of the people who view it to actually research said material BEFORE opening thier mouths to offer a completely uneducated opinion. Come on folks! You had to have heard the saying a million times "Don't believe everything you see on tv."

Becuase I believe Syn has a valid point about percieved notions that others may get from seeing such things as animals, dead folks, and children on a profile, I removed them from mine. I realize that many people do come to this site for education. Kind of going to the source. If they are here to learn, then maybe they will stay and see that the above mentioned limits are not "widely" accepted as portrayed on tv.

I have been approched by people that "totally" dig thier animals and what to know why I don't. Another has approched me and said that his son is 14 and he is already having sex so why not play with him? *shudders* I am so sorry if my own ignorance here is coloring my perception....but what the fuck!!!! Did some folks miss the part that being a parent means your protect them? From all types of damage...physical, emotional, and mentally.
I think that type of questioning portrays us as absolute sick-os.

As much as I would love to pretend that any type of abuse does not exist in the leather community, I cant. That just isnt safe. When you ignore the problem, the threat increases. I agree that education and tolerance goes a long way.



Zarius -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 11:23:30 AM)

Greetings everyone

The sad fact is, most people wont take the time to do the research to find out. They just watch tv and turn off thier brains.

As others have said, Education and tolerance goes a long way. Is so true, we must educate everyone we come into contact within the lifestyle, on what it is that we do.

I wish you all well

Zarius



toservez -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 11:30:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Synocense

C'mon people, that only suggests that some of us do that kind of stuff and frankly, that is not the truth, is it?


Maybe I am ready too much into this but to me it may be just semantics but they are big semantics.

There would be a big difference in writing a profile or replies on a message board that acknowledges most of us as sane and safe people and comments that act like there are insane and dangerous people around.

Most people when listing hard limits will clump together death with fire play which comes off to newbies or “regular” folks like they are linked which I think is what the OP refers to.

Maybe we could all do a better job when we refer to the insane and dangerous with the acts we associate them with that it is not lumped with our “normal” stuff and make a point of acknowledging these people are not a representation of us.

[Mod Note:  quote trimmed to remove verboten material]



ModeratorEleven -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 11:53:16 AM)

Folks, please drop the discussion of forbidden topics before the thread is pulled.

XI



Absolutemaster -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 12:00:28 PM)

*Had second thoughts and removed*



Lkg4MstrSacramen -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 12:17:27 PM)

okay,  so you don't like limits listed? For the most part i agree what i do is my business and what someone else does is their business. However, in my experience there are people who Do Consensually Do some of those things you have listed. For whatever reason; some people have grown up in this life, and have no true limits as everything HAS been done. In some cases it wasn't consensual; and now it is part of them and they embrace it.

Who are we to judge? Just because it isn't my kink, and i don't want to know about it and it doesn't "fit" into MY idea of bdsm, does not mean it doesn't exist. Come on, we are a diverse and wide open kinked community.



laurell3 -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 12:33:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Synocense

I was at a seminar at my local club and the speaker made a fantastic point, which I would like to share here.  One of those that made me go "hmmm" .

The majority of us already know that the media and society at large has something against the leather community. ( And by leather community, I am referring to all of us beneath the big umbrella -- wiitwd ) I am not here today to debate what caused this but I would like to give one suggestion that may help in defusing the bomb. Society has a misconception about us. We are the whip wielding, the meek, the non-confident and the control freaks, however, even worse, many believe we are the pedophiles, the criminals, the truly sick and twisted too. It does not help matters when they read in our profiles or our stories or our articles that we have placed limits such as "no kids, no animals, no dead people" -- C'mon people, that only suggests that some of us do that kind of stuff and frankly, that is not the truth, is it? Why even mention it then? IMO, just by mentioning it, we are suggesting the possibility and my world, there is NO possibility. Yours either? So I suggest if you have these sorts of things on your profile, remove it. Don't give it a second thought.

Sincerely,
Syn




Sadly when I had a sub profile I got offers for unmentionable activities all the time.  So yes, I do believe for some it is a necessity.

You are never going to get a conservative vanilla population to approve of wiitwd and have a profile stating we do NOT do those things in no way would prove the opposite is true.  Besides, I really doubt they read our profiles.  Honestly many of us are control freaks, whip-wielding, and even non-confident....so what?



Twicehappy2x -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 1:19:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan


So, I can't help but wonder why one would list "no children" as a limit, when no Dominants are seeking submissives for any activities involving children.


Because they do not want to be involved with somebody with unmentionables still living at home. 



missturbation -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 1:45:46 PM)

quote:

It does not help matters when they read in our profiles or our stories or our articles that we have placed limits such as "no kids, no animals, no dead people" --


I'm amused by the thought here that in removing these from a profile will help others look better on our lifestyle lol.



sirguym -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 2:01:09 PM)

There are those in our community who do these things. A lower proportion, I suspect, than amongst those still adhering to fundamentalist religion, because we acknowledge that people are tempted and explicitly condemn the  practise(s). It flourishes most amongst those who don't or won't admit it happens. So I think the OP is mistaken - it has to be said.



SeekingDomme2Lov -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 2:26:58 PM)

I think this highlights the importance of being "out."  I don't mean being in-your-face about it necessarily, but willing and *unafraid* to talk about our part of reality if it comes up in casual conversation.  The story of the tomatoes and gardening tips is excellent.  It's no worse than telling someone you're gay, and folks come out *that* way all the time now.  People might be shocked at first, but if they respected you for your "vanilla self" before, they will continue to do so.

The unknown is frightening.  Put a human face on it and it's just quirky.

And regarding limits:

DD D/s = Don't Do Dumb Shit!



LaTigresse -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 3:01:58 PM)

It may be strange to people that some feel the need to specify such limits.

The reality is that there are some sick mofos out there that don't get where the lines need to be drawn. I've had my fair share of emails from pretty young ladies that seem to feel that one of my photo's suggests they can bring up a certain topic and wished to be used in that manner. Also, as others have, had my fair share of emails interested in illegal human type stuff.

Regardless of what the bulk of the population under the afore mentioned umbrella believe, you will have the few mental cases that believe differently and need to be reminded. You will also have some that feel that if you are to accept some kink you should accept all kink....I've seen that thought expressed before.

I agree, most of us will say that it should be safe, sane and consenting.....adult humans. Unfortunately not everyone is of this mindset.



camille65 -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 3:13:20 PM)

Jeez some of you all get freaky deaky mail! I feel left out... not. Please that is not an invite for freaky mail lol. Seriously though, I have never ever gotten mail like y'all are mentioning. I had a thought while chopping onions tonight, maybe I need to put 'Refuse to be thrown off the Empire State Building' as a hard limit?Thats kinda how I feel about having a litany of *to me* ridiculous hard limits, if I wrote every single thing I won't do then I would never stop typing.Oh, please include bungie jumping w/o the bungie, a limit I just now thought of.[:D]



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 4:05:45 PM)

First off, I don't think the society at large nor the press has something against us.  I think a lot of people don't care, I think a lot of people are intrigued, I think the press uses what they know will attract readers, and a few empowered groups use their voices against us.

Now, about limits.  People like shortcuts.  That's why they cling to the term ssc so much and why they think calling something a hard limit and having a short list of "extreme" hard limits makes them a happier person.

Anyone who takes three seconds to examine this will indeed realize how flimsy and realistic they are when it comes to actual relationships.  Someone who feels so strongly about dogs but has never once given thought to the notion that they might be ordered to change religions needs to open up a little more.

Oh and yes, lots of people do all of those things all the time. 



Synocense -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 5:18:41 PM)

Thank you, yes, that is precisely what I meant. I noticed some people responded with "but it does happen" -- I do not have pennies over my eyes, I would not be so fantastic as to say that there are not people on this site, at our clubs, in our Emails, that both suggest and preform the activities I mentioned in my original post. However, i do not include those people in the "we" I am referring to.
Again, thank you for your eloquent manner of speaking.

Syn



batshalom -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 5:23:13 PM)

This is a big fat non-issue as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic or caustic. What people outside wiitwd think of wiitwd is of no greater concern to me than what people think of my car. I can't muster the desire to care one tiny bit. 



Synocense -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 5:23:29 PM)

No, I (personally) do not and will not include these 'kinks' in bdsm - not mine and not yours. That is judgmental, I know and I will probably burn in collarme hell for it. If they choose to do anything illegal as stated, they can give themselves another name. What you have said is precisely what I want to see vanish -- any of those activities and the like, not associated with bdsm.

Syn



SimplyMichael -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 5:38:15 PM)

What do we do about people who like to

  • Use their partners as urinals?
  • Nail their balls and or cocks to boards?
  • Step on and crush a man's cock under their heel?
  • Have their partner receive brown showers, roman showers, anything other than a hot shower?
  • Brand their partner
  • LA had a Master who considered cutting off her clitoris (I think I have that right)

I could go on but we do LOTS of things that the general society cannot wrap their head around.  Just taking a man and forcing him to eat his own cum is enough to freak out a vast majority of people.  Besides, I get sick about people who list animals as a limit because they cannot consent and then EAT one for dinner, talk about hypocrisy!



AnimusRex -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 7:27:58 PM)

A lot of good comments here...but here is another view- there are plenty of people who ENJOY being seen as dangerous, scary, and who enjoy being sexual outlaws  breaking all sorts of forbidden taboos. A lot of the people i met here don't want to be accepted by society- they revel in their status as outsiders.



Synocense -> RE: "we" as an example (11/20/2007 7:41:03 PM)

That is true and that is fine. So they have a *different* lifestyle.


Thanks for the input, everyone.
Syn



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