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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 6:49:50 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah.  Religious people are nuts.  There's this movement all over where people are trying to sanitize religioin- taking out the most objectable things- but, hey, education's more common place and superstitions finally fall into their death bed, sanitized or not simply won't matter; it'll be a non-issue.  [/rant]

Meh, I guess I just dismiss things like this as religious insanity.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 7:22:39 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, and these are the Saudis... supposedly allies of ours.

Amazing what the addiction for oil will do to us... making us turn a blind eye to some of the worst possible human rights violations.

The whole affair just seems... so much like a scene from some pulpy John Norman novel.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 7:39:23 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
Well to be fair there are some areas that have broken free from the fundamentalism. Some say that Dubai is the Las Vegas of the mid-east. Some areas of Kuwait are more modern. There is an area in northern Iran where the women wear western clothes (although those groups are not Iranian, they are Azeri or Turkic ethnic groups who Iran doesnt really like but are afraid to do anything about them). Conditions in Afghanistan have improved since the Taliban was thrown out. There are still a lot of problems but women arn't being beaten in the streets for showing their ankle.

So there are some areas where conditions are improving. But this is a cultural issue. And that's not possible for us to change. The people need to change on their own and make the decision to move forward and push the radicals out of the mainstream.


Another great example is that Turkey is a secular democracy, too. Turkey proves that Muslims are fully capable of embracing Western democracy, regardless of what the racists and bigots may try and tell you.

I agree with you, there are some shining examples of modern Islamic nations out there, but there are some others that have a long way to go, and I for one am extremely hopeful that Iraq and Afghanistan will in the future be a part of showing the way forward in that region, of leading their Renaissance.



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 7:44:33 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Turkey's not an Islamic nation. And it's got a military which will overthrow the extant government, should the military feel that government is exceeding it's Constitutional authority.

Is there a Kemal Attaturk somewhere in Iraq? Well, after Bush and Bremer, that's moot.

Would the Saudi Army overthrow the King for permitting the punishment of a rape victim? I don't think so.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/20/2007 7:45:29 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 7:47:19 PM   
pinksugarsub


Posts: 1224
Status: offline 		How appalling.  I don't think we're in a good position to throw stones, but the case is very disturbing.  200 lashes?  Wouldn't that possibly kill the victim?
 
We get into bed with drug lords and despots and anyone who advances what we think are our immediate needs without a second thought to the regime we support.
 
pinksugarsub

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 7:51:34 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Wasn't one of Bush's excuses for invading Iraq, that he needed to free the Iraqi women from oppression under Hussein?

A statement proven false by Bush's refusal to denounce, much less invade Saudi Arabia.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pinksugarsub)
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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 8:02:32 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Turkey's not an Islamic nation.


Yes it is. Absolutely it is:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=SUNA,SUNA:2007-30,SUNA:en&q=turkey+islamic+democracy+

So you can drop your bigoted insistence that Muslims aren't capable of living democratically. 

Any time farglebargle - and now would be preferable.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 8:05:33 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		That's laughable, suggesting that the President invade Saudi Arabia...

And prove to me that the President hasn't denounced the way fundamentalist Muslims treat women. Or prove that he hasn't denounced this particular case!

You're just pulling that out of the crack of your ass and slinging it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Wasn't one of Bush's excuses for invading Iraq, that he needed to free the Iraqi women from oppression under Hussein?

A statement proven false by Bush's refusal to denounce, much less invade Saudi Arabia.




_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 8:10:19 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		People really need to reexamine their definition of the word "ally".  Ally does not mean friend or lover.  If you think that the West is friends with Saudi Arabia or any other Islamic nation, than you don't understand the history of foreign relations.  It's almost like saying that the La Costa Nostra is friends with the Aryan Brotherhood just because they both are criminal organizations and occasionally do business together. 

The Saudis don't like us, and we don't like them.  It's sort of like the relationship between a crack dealer and a crackhead.  They have something we need, and we don't question them on their internal "business practices."  We shouldn't either.  It's none of our business how the Saudis view women's rights.  Don't get me wrong, I think it's appalling how women in the Islamic world are treated.  But, I can't do anything about it and neither can anyone in the Western world.  The Saudis have to change on their own.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 11/20/2007 8:18:26 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 8:23:35 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

That's laughable, suggesting that the President invade Saudi Arabia...

And prove to me that the President hasn't denounced the way fundamentalist Muslims treat women.


I don't SEE a denouncement, do you? If you have an example, please share. I mean, in general, back in 2002, he surely did. But today, when a rape victim is being tortured by the Saudi Government?

Bush's actions and rhetoric are consipicuous in their absence.

quote:


Or prove that he hasn't denounced this particular case!


Ok, sunshine, where's your quote from Bush denouncing this. You keep suggesting he HAS, but you cannot produce any evidence.

quote:


You're just pulling that out of the crack of your ass and slinging it.


Provide Bush's quotes supporting your allegation.

Here's a Bush Quote to consider: 2002-SOTU

"No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity: the rule of law; limits on the power of the state; respect for women; private property; free speech; equal justice; and religious tolerance."

I guess it's negotiable when you're the Saudis who tell Bush what to do.


< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/20/2007 8:25:16 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 8:28:45 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Here's a Bush Quote to consider: 2002-SOTU

"No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity: the rule of law; limits on the power of the state; respect for women; private property; free speech; equal justice; and religious tolerance."
Bold face added.

Are you sure Bush said this?  ;)   Or was this a pre-9/11 quote?  (Yeah, I can't remember which year 9/11 was.)

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 8:49:04 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Another reason to give thanks that we live in the U.S. or other Western countries.

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 8:58:49 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Wasn't one of Bush's excuses for invading Iraq, that he needed to free the Iraqi women from oppression under Hussein?

A statement proven false by Bush's refusal to denounce, much less invade Saudi Arabia.




No...that was Afghanistan under the Taliban...  

The "rape-rooms" were in Iraq.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 9:26:11 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Can't be...

Islam is the Religion of Peace that loves, protects and cherishes their women. This must be Zionist,  Zionist_Hindu, American or Zionist-Hindu-American lies!!!!!


Anyone think that our state dept. will protest(in real terms)?

Anyone here think that brave bush will come to the rescue?

Who thinks that jack shit will change?

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 10:11:35 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		How many of you have actually read the article?

It's been recently updated:

The punishment was increased from 90 lashes to 200 because she spoke to the media.

The victim's lawyer was removed from the case for reasons that sound like pure bullshit.

The U.S. expressed "astonishment" and encouraged Saudia Arabia to reconsider the verdict.  (Heh.)

The Saudi ambassador to the U.S. has "no doubt" that justice will ultimately prevail in the case.

Oh, the victim was kidnapped when she agreed to meet someone who was trying to blackmail her.  Evidently he had a photograph of her that she wanted back.  The lawyer claims the photograph was harmless.

Finally, let's not forget this:

quote:

Under law in Saudi Arabia women are subject to numerous restrictions, including a strict dress code, a prohibition against driving and a requirement that they get a man's permission to travel or have surgery. Women are also not allowed to testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not observed by a man, and they are not allowed to vote.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 10:48:14 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Wasn't one of Bush's excuses for invading Iraq, that he needed to free the Iraqi women from oppression under Hussein?

A statement proven false by Bush's refusal to denounce, much less invade Saudi Arabia.




No...that was Afghanistan under the Taliban...

The "rape-rooms" were in Iraq.



You're right. After finding this quote from Bremer on the Whitehouse's website, it's clear that empowering women was never on the agenda.

quote:


At the centers, women can learn not only ancient and universally useful skills like cooking and sewing, but also new skills for the modern world such as how to use computers, to speak English and about the processes of democracy.


Yeah, and under US occupation, the little girls are just raped in their homes after their families are murdered, so that's a huge plus from the rape-rooms.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/20/2007 10:49:06 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 11:04:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Wasn't one of Bush's excuses for invading Iraq, that he needed to free the Iraqi women from oppression under Hussein?

A statement proven false by Bush's refusal to denounce, much less invade Saudi Arabia.





the administration never could tell the difference between saudi and iraqi territory which is proven by the conspiracy kooks since the hijackers were saudis after all.

geographically challenged.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 11:09:37 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Finally, let's not forget this:

quote:

Under law in Saudi Arabia women are subject to numerous restrictions, including a strict dress code, a prohibition against driving and a requirement that they get a man's permission to travel or have surgery. Women are also not allowed to testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not observed by a man, and they are not allowed to vote.



i dont get it whats the problem here?  Its master slave relationship at its best!!

twew slaves and masters no?




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 11/20/2007 11:10:02 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 11:12:40 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Here's a Bush Quote to consider: 2002-SOTU

"No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity: the rule of law; limits on the power of the state; respect for women; private property; free speech; equal justice; and religious tolerance."
Bold face added.

Are you sure Bush said this?  ;)   Or was this a pre-9/11 quote?  (Yeah, I can't remember which year 9/11 was.)


Cl you always have to read the fine print.  (except in cases involving oil ot money)





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Saudi rape victim gets 200 lashes.... - 11/20/2007 11:13:03 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		If there's a nation we *should have* declared war against, it's the people who planned and financed the 9/11 attacks, and the terrorists operating in Iraq. Saudi Arabia.

Instead, Bush runs away from our bases in Saudi Arabia. Just as he was told.

Now, if that's not "Aid and Comfort" to our enemies, what is?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 40
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