Settlers and Natives (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> Settlers and Natives (11/21/2007 11:50:33 PM)

I think I'll have a burger tomorrow.

You might think this negative, but I do not. The fact of the matter is that I will not celebrate Thanksgiving. Ever.

Enjoy your family and your day off, by all means, but realize in your mind that it means nothing, and if it did it would be bad. Useless comsumerism. The kickoff for the "Christmas shopping ". The start of it all.

Consumerism has destroyed what Christmas is supposed to be all about, and Thankgiving is even a bigger farce.

Thanksgiving is the celebration of frirendship between the settlers and the Natives. Later the settlers when on to attempt genocide on a wide scale, and it was well known among the People who settled this great land.

Christmas is on the wrong day, and even if it were on the right day, it was meant to be a time when you reaffirm your commitment to family and society. If Christ wanted his birthday celebrated at all, He would want it to mean more then a trip to Walmart.

But tomorrow is the big day, so hurry up and get that game for the kid at $89.95 instead of the $59.95 it will cost on January third. Show them how much you love them by giving $30 to the suits, even though they don't get it right away. They have to wait, and as they open the present, literally it drops to half it's former price. I won't say value because none of this garbage has any value. And it's not like driving a brand new car for a short time and learning about depreciation, they set the price down.

They FUCKED you.

All holidays are the same, they have all been turned into money making enterprises, and all have lost their original meaning, and spirit.

The spirit of Thanksgiving was that the Natives and the settlers got along, and they helped them, taught them how to survive here. It was a gathering of both, in friendship. But the settlers betrayed that friendship. Even though the settlers had been helped by these people, and may have not even survived without them, the settlers saw them as sub-human somehow, subject to whatever it takes to take this country. Yes THIS country.

Their rights mattered not, it was the typical "ME ME ME" that has been portrayed throughout history by that sinister evil animal we call human. And that is us.

So Thankgiving is just a reminder to me of just how nasty we are.

Enjoy your day off.

T



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 12:02:21 AM)

This maybe how you interpret Thanksgiving, but you should really reanalyze the word.  It's up to the individual how they give thanks.  I don't see it as a day for mindless consumerism.  I see my family and friends, and I enjoy my time with them.  That is what I am thankful for.  Lots of bad things happened in history, but lots of good things happened too.  You can focus on the negative if you want, but I'd rather focus on the good that life has to offer.  You get a limited amount of time to be alive, and I don't see the point in making yourself miserable by trying to find out all the ways that life sucks.



Rumtiger -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 12:04:13 AM)

really, I thought modern thanksgiving was all about how Lincon decided to nationlize the holiday as an excuse for issuing in turkey as rations to the troops as a cost effective replacement for chicken.

You still think thanksgiving had anything to do with that bullshit we learned when each of us was 5 years old? cmon.



NaiveTempest -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 12:09:07 AM)

OH YEAH! I GOTTA DAY OFF! I'm off work! Oh yeah; gonna pig out! Oh yeah! Turkey and pie! Oh yeah!

We can't change history, much as we may hate or dispise what has occurred before. Nor will we or should we forget what occurred. But, each of us must live and learn and find out what Thankgiving means for us right now, at this moment. And be thankful we can post a message to people all the world telling them this day sucks! LOL!

Time for food, fun and feasting........ Mmmmmmm.....foooooooood..........



Rumtiger -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 12:10:41 AM)

Hell got the bird in a brine as we speak...just gotta wait for tomarrow.



Estring -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 12:46:05 AM)

Boy, you are just a bundle of joy.



MRandme -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 2:41:47 AM)

Any holiday is what you make of it. For me, Thanksgiving is just that, a day to count your blessings and be thankful for them. Reconnecting with family is one way to do that, the dinner is a great reason to get together.

For me, Christmas isn't about the gifts and it isn't about a baby born some two thousand years ago, it's about thinking of others, being generous, celebrating the best traits in human nature. Again it is about family and friends.

that's just my opinion though.

g



charmdpetKeira -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 3:28:24 AM)

Hmmm… In past years it has been a day for getting together with my birth family. My unmentionables go to their dads’ so I’m usually the only one there from my clan to represent, but this year mom’s “house is a mess”, so big bro invited the folks over to his house and guess who wasn’t invited. I might hang out with lil sis; she wasn’t invited either. Seems as though he is getting in touch with the “settler” side of himself; funny thing is, I saw him at the store yesterday and he says “You do know where I live, ya know.” I was thinking yea, and I know where I wasn’t invited for the holiday also. I refrained from saying it though and only pointed out that he knows where I live as well. Who says emotional detachment doesn’t have an up side?
 
Since we’re a little “settler” and a little “native” the big question for me is; should I sit around and get along or fight with myself? Guess it depends on my mood.
 
As for Christmas, I'm a single mom so I haven’t been able to afford that for a few years now. Will probably only do shopping for the senior members of my birth family and a little for my unmentionables; save the rest for after income tax time like I have been. I do enjoy getting things at the much better prices. ;)
 
k



orfunboi -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 3:44:28 AM)

If that's all it means to you, then that's your problem. Thanksgiving and Christmas for me means a lot more and none of it has anything to do with walmart or money. Maybe if you were not sitting around feeling bitter, you would find a reason to enjoy the season more, then again, maybe you can't. Either way, it doesn't matter to me, i will go out today and enjoy a wonderful meal and the companionship of wonderful friends and family. Hope you enjoy your burger.

Edited to add:
Oh yea, and the 4 day weekend is going to be sweet too.....



carlie310 -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 3:57:23 AM)

And I hope you have a wonderful burger.  Thanksgiving, like just about everything else, is what you make of it.  It's my favorite holiday, because of those very same things you mention: I spend the day before preparing the meal, and the day of being with family and eating, counting my blessings.

As far as the friendship between the Wampanoag & those at Plimoth. . .there's no evidence that the Wampanoag were invited to share the feast, which was probably a more typical English harvest feast.  Not in Edward Winslow's letter, and not (to my knowledge) in the Wampanoag oral tradition. Thanksgiving days were more likely to be days of fasting than feasting, from what I've read.



pahunkboy -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 5:01:49 AM)

Holidays to me- are a trigger to notice one is lonely. I all but begged Jenny to come to Thanksgiven dinner- but since she had dinner at Heathers the past 2 years- they "always did it this way" even tho she had no confirmation as late as 4pm yesderday.  Quite possibly she is figuring $5 for gas- vs what I am serving. Oh well.

I look forward to Ts Christmas posts.



eyesopened -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 6:31:17 AM)

To set aside a day in the year to be thankful, to verbalize the positive things in my life is important.  Today, i have to work from 2pm until 8pm and not because of any commercial reasons but because of a silly regulation in the industry in which i'm employed.  So for me, this Saturday is the day i will set aside for the giving of thanks.  It matters not the day or the history or anything else, but the whole idea of gathering family and friends for a day of positive reflections and positive thoughts for the future is renewing for me.

Being so negative, it's not a wonder why it is a bad day for you.



KatyLied -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 6:47:53 AM)

I enjoy the holidays.  Especially spending time with my kids, who are both away from home and in college.  I lived away from my family for many years and was robbed of our family traditions, so I especially enjoy them now and always plan to be at home, if possible for the holidays.  I also enjoy having some time off from work.  It's nice to sleep in and have a slow cup of latte in the morning.  I do agree that holidays are what you make of them.



EPGAH -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 7:33:28 AM)

Yes, enjoy today, and don't feel guilty about back then, unless you were alive back then, in which case, you SHOULD feel guilty for not sharing your Immortality Serum![;)]
Seriously, though, Americans need to let go of the past, otherwise enemy countries will use our guilt against us!



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 7:54:49 AM)

Fast reply:

Well if you really feel that way about it, give all your wealth to the natives, and move your ass off of their land. That or pay them some rent. All of that should help you with that guilt.

Me and mine are going to use this as a day that everyone in the family can take a breath from their busy schedules, be thankful for being a family, and thankful for the things that keep us from living on the streets.

Orion



EPGAH -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 7:59:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Fast reply:
Well if you really feel that way about it, give all your wealth to the natives, and move your ass off of their land. That or pay them some rent. All of that should help you with that guilt.

Wow, I said something like that a long time ago...But seriously, America may not be a GREAT country anymore, but we're still the best, otherwise all the haters really WOULD leave...[:D]
I'm thankful for the technology that allows so many to live who "should" be dead...and for our instant communications!



Gwynvyd -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 8:11:29 AM)

Being a "Native" Cherokee to be exact I always felt divided in school about Thanksgiving. In Middle school I even stood up in class one time and said "And then you bastards had to go and kill every body didnt ya!?" But as an adult I am much better now... *smiles*

I see Thanksgiving as a time to look back on the year and reflect on all the things that have happened to family and friends.. and be Thankful for the good, and be thankful for the lessons (ie. the bad). None of us here are dead.. we are not in a refugee camp... we have homes, and electricity so we have it pretty damn good.

I am sorry that the holidays bring up bad things for some. Loneliness and the like. Heck I miss my mum more durring this time of year... ( oh and her cooking! Gods do I miss that! ) But every holiday was intended to be a break away from work ( which I am not doing today or tomorrow ) and be with your family.

Is the whole grade school shit with the Plimgrams and the Indians BS.. You'd better belive it. Just like the tooth fairey and Easter Bunny. But it is the thought that counts.

Gwyn,
who still gets a chuckle over the Teacher/Parent confrence she got to go on for her son having a reaction to the whole Pilgram thing.



carlie310 -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 9:29:27 AM)

To be fair, it's less BS than it used to be. Sites like plimoth.org are very helpful, and I visited Jamestown over the summer, which was very honest and respectful. But I was highly irritated when my son came home from school talking about the Indians and Pilgrims.  Talk about refusing to admit to a mistake. . .500 years later, people are still using the term that CC used when he thought he landed in India.



Termyn8or -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 9:51:16 AM)

Don't get me wrong, I am thankful for many things. Good family, good friends and a good job. But I was thankful for that yesterday as I will be tomorrow, and every day.

And as far as Christmans goes, my people know I do not do Christmans, but that doesn't mean we don't give each other things. It just happens when it happens. Usually goes like "Check this out" and later "It's your's".

My buddy, comes around for the Friday night bashes and at those times, the music does quiet down and we have discussions, or actually pick up an instrument and play, or attempt to play, depending on who it is. But we talk alot. Well we are kinda forming a band. Everybody is learning, and that is going well actually. So a few months ago this guy walks in with a Tascam four track recorder. That is pretty much how it went - "Check this out, it is your's".

It doesn't matter that he picked it up at a thrift store for $10, it matters that he kept his eyes open and snatched it up while the getting was good. In turn anything I see that depicts a human skull I must ante up and get it for him. This guy is a skull afficianado in spades. This could happen in June, August or February, doesn't matter.

Christmas has become a time when big money counts on the sheeple to buy a bunch of shit they do not need, and most of the time do it with money they do not have. If you went to all the second hand stores and pawn shops in the area all year and saved up all the cool things you found, you would have one hell of a bunch of gifts to give out. But I see no reason to wait until their birthday or Christmas before giving it to them. Sure you could do that, but if you had the thing since February........ what is the point of that ?

You wouldn't be fueling the rampant consumerism no matter what.

In the family we used to have "after". This is when we go to all the post Christmas sales and see what kind of deals we can get. I might get a call on January fifth from Mom, "______, I buyed you something", to which I reply "Oh, no".

Money is an important commodity in today's world. I would rather get something for someone that they really want or need, rather than conform to some marketing plan.

There is really no way to express my thoughts without coming off with some negativity, but believe me it is not intentional. Truth is truth though, so it comes out how it comes out.

As far as I am concerned the original spirit of Thanksgiving is dead. It used to be that we were thankful to be welcomed into this land and have this bounty, or it could've been a fast. But from what I understood I thought, it was symbolic of the friendship between the Natives and the settlers. Well if that's the way we treat our friends I don't want to be my friend.

So celebrate it anyway you want, give thanks for the blessings you have, which mainly include people. Spend that precious time with them. Just don't pretend that it is based on some old tradition of mutual friendship and respect, because it is not. Nowadays, it is merely a day that is agreed upon for gatherings. And really that is not a bad thing.

You might get a chance to sit with someone you know but have very little time to talk to because of work schedules and so forth. You might see relatives you haven't seen in a year. If you still have old folk in the family you might learn some real history. You might meet nieces and nephews, or cousins for the first time. Many good things can happen. Taken in that context I have nothing against it.

But many think of this day as the date they have to start thinking up a list of people for whom they must buy a bunch of unneeded or unwanted junk. Think about it, if they needed it or wanted it they would have already bought it. And if they can't afford it you have removed their incentive to excel if you simply gave it to them.

And many people do this with money they do not have.

So as you can see, it is hard not to sound negative.

But I really am not negative about it, if people get together, that is good. Do something, don't just stare at the game. Enjoy each other, that is what a holiday is for, regardless of it's original meaning. Just forget the meaning and enjoy.

Bon apetite.

T



pahunkboy -> RE: Settlers and Natives (11/22/2007 12:55:54 PM)

What he said!  I s0 enjoy Terminators posts.

I am 44 years old. Per haps in the 70s getting "stuff" was exciting. But now as an adult- having moved 25 times- I learned how "nothing" much of "stuff" is. When I moved to Pennslyvania in 1988; September 14th, 1988 to be exact. If it did not fit in my car- it did not go. I sold-gave away and donated clutter. It was hard to leave behind the nice stuff I had. But I learned it IS replaceable.  Since living in PA, alot of my "stuff" I got free or cheap as someone else did not want to haul or store it. Then as I went on- I replaced un-nice clutter- with nicer clutter- now replacing nice clutter with dazzling clutter.  One can be so dazzled that stop to smell the roses is a mall visit.

Being that a good number of posters here- have denounced over-consumption;  I wonder just how the general public feels.

As wacky as this sounds- a fresh anvalanche has made cool rocks available- for my rock garden. I LOVE putering around in the yard!  I got more accomplished alone yesderday then with my worker here. I found $5 of nails spilt on the sidewalk. I seen that instead of 12 sheets of plywood- we only needed 7.  Today I put some up. I may be 1/4 of an inch of- but I am not building a new place- just redoing portions of this.

I am using 2 window frames as planters for the side garden. It WILL look good when I am done.

I dont know how to express into words to my worker- that - if I am not able to "manage" his work- then it is of no value to me.

Anyhow- there is lot to be thankfull for



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