RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk?

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eyesopened -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 6:29:02 AM)
Yes, it is worth the risk! i had such a thing happen with the only other Dominant i ever loved. His self-desctructive negative attitude would have destroyed me. i mentioned it in the most loving way possible, in terms of how it made me feel, not as an accusation. He dismissed me immediately and permanently. Yes, it was very much worth it. It also helped me to better listen to that little voice and helped me to make better decisions.

velvetears -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 7:51:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dawntreader *Fear is a terrible thing to have...i have been working on letting go of fear all my life~* When you get to a place where you have lost every relationship you have ever had and survived, you will learn not to fear speaking your mind~ i agree with you dawntreader. i would rather be alone then live in fear, not able to speak my mind, basically in my opinion living a lie. i lived in fear at one point in a relationship and when i finally got the courage to speak up as much as it pained me it ended i felt like a thousand ton burden was lifted from my shoulders. To harbor fear is to cease living. breathsasone my advice to you is live your relationship with your master without the fear of him abandoning you. If you bring up something that bothers you and he says well maybe i am not the one for you - than maybe he isn't. i for one wouldn't want someone who had that attitude with me for it would tell me i wasn't valued very much. As long as your respectful, speak your mind. If you truly belong to someone holding back isn't really an option - and if your truly owned, whatever you divulge shouldn't be grounds for dismissal.

windchymes -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 8:08:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: Has anyone ("s" types) seen a pattern of behavior in there "D" type that was truly trouble waiting to happen, but were afraid to broach the subject because you were worried that the afore mentioned "D" type might say..."Thats just how I am, so perhaps I'm not the one for you." Absolutly. I never brought it up though because he would have simply said 'tough shit, take it or leave it' and meant it. In that case, I would leave it....and have.[:)] Just came back to clarify......that statement is strictly a response to Irish's post. It is NOT meant to infer that I think the OP should leave.

TysGalilah -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 8:10:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: dawntreader *Fear is a terrible thing to have...i have been working on letting go of fear all my life~* When you get to a place where you have lost every relationship you have ever had and survived, you will learn not to fear speaking your mind~ i agree with you dawntreader. i would rather be alone then live in fear, not able to speak my mind, basically in my opinion living a lie. i lived in fear at one point in a relationship and when i finally got the courage to speak up as much as it pained me it ended i felt like a thousand ton burden was lifted from my shoulders. To harbor fear is to cease living. breathsasone my advice to you is live your relationship with your master without the fear of him abandoning you. If you bring up something that bothers you and he says well maybe i am not the one for you - than maybe he isn't. i for one wouldn't want someone who had that attitude with me for it would tell me i wasn't valued very much. As long as your respectful, speak your mind. If you truly belong to someone holding back isn't really an option - and if your truly owned, whatever you divulge shouldn't be grounds for dismissal. very well said, Velvet I agree. There is another thread going on about "abuse" and how to know. I am not saying, Candy, that you are in an abusive relationship NOT AT ALL ..so please don't misunderstand. my point is only that > imo.. one form of abuse is manipulated by and into fearing harmful retaliation. whether that fear is by anothers hand or mind OR even by our own self-inflicted fear ( ie fear of loss in this case....which taps into your self-proclaimed issues with abandonement... ). If you lose the ability to make choices because of fear, you are allowing that fear to manipulate your relationship. Candy, you were right to be concerned about the effects of your Masters "inconsistant behaviors". That will eventually cause a breakdown in a Ds dynamic..imo. Trust is not just about > lies or lack there of infidelity or lack there of it is also about being able to trust the word of another. when we say we are going to do [fill in the blank], trusting that that is EXACTLY what will happen > is an essential cornerstone of a ds dynamic. I am glad your master listened to you and I am glad you talked with him and feel better about being able to..

gypsygrl -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 8:23:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone It occurs to me that because I have omitted the behavior I am seeking in put on that Y'all might be thinking something MUCH worse than is actually the case...so with that mindset I'll say . What I am speaking about is a lack of follow through...Not doing what you said you were going to do.....This behavior is very hurtful to me, for a whole host of reasons that my Master is aware of. He does NOT do this with ANY malice, or intentional misleading....I WHOLE heartedly believe He intends to do what He said He would...and "things just come up( A LOT)." This also makes it very hard to talk to Him about, because i KNOW He would NEVER hurt me on purpose...so I kinda feel bad for wanting to tell Him that He is doing just that, because its so hit and miss.... With new knowledge I have to say that I disagree with your assessment that it is a habit and not a personality trait. Is he older than 5? Then it's personality. My husband is sort of this way and I learned through some years of therapy that he was not going to change simply because it is too much of who he is. Sadly it means that I have had to retrain myself to not react to the let downs and expect less. The emotional reaction is still there, that's part of my personality, but I'm much happier with what I've worked on myself in relationship to him and the hurt feelings get less and less over time. I agree with thetammyjo. When dealing with this sort of person, I try to focus on the right now and not get caught up in whats going to happen later on, tomorrow or next week so 'follow through' becomes less important. It takes some mental discipline, but the benefit is that when I'm evaluating things I'm basing my feelings on actual behaviors, past and present, and rather than anticipating a future that never comes. The idea is to live in the now. If the now isn't working for me, I definitely speak up, but I stay focused on that now (whats actually happening in the moment) and try to remain as specific and concrete as possible when I do speak up. As for hurt feelings, if there is no intention to hurt me then I allow myself to be comforted and try to let go. I'm a real sucker for a minute or two of cuddling. :)

daddysblondie -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 8:37:27 AM)
I realize there are four pages of posts on this subject, but felt the need to chime in anyway... It seems to me there are plenty of times when someone will ask a relationship question and the resulting answer is that "our" relationships are not different than vanilla relationships, and I think that is true (to a point of course). If you were in any relationship and your partner was doing something, even unintentionally that was causing you hurt, the wisest thing to do is to bring it up. To say, "Master/Daddy/Sir when this happens, I feel this way..." can be scary. And it seems that in ANY relationship you run the risk of having your partner say, "Sorry, this is the way I am, deal with it or move on." But in putting it out there, you know what you are up against. If his response is along the lines of "deal with it", then you have to decide if you can. However, it seems there are also plenty of occasions where the "offending" partner will decide that the effort to change/modify the behavior is worth the effort for the sake of the relationship. With that said, I have personally also found that sometimes having the courage to speak about my feelings freed me from them and allowed me to move forward. When I was trying to keep them from him, they would consume me, and eventually destroyed the relationship anyway.

breatheasone -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 8:42:51 AM)
quote: Trust is not just about > lies or lack there of infidelity or lack there of it is also about being able to trust the word of another. when we say we are going to do [fill in the blank], trusting that that is EXACTLY what will happen > is an essential cornerstone of a ds dynamic. This is what He and I will be working on and talking through...i am confident it will be fruitful....because Master and I are committed to each other and our relationship...and like GYPSYGRL said...I KNOW Master didn't intend to hurt my feelings or to be inconsiderate. Thanks for the insight Y'all have NO idea how much you are all(well MOST[;)]) appreciated

amiciaN -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 8:50:14 AM)
Hi breatheasone-- I'm glad to hear that things went well when you spoke to your Master about what was troubling you. As someone who has severe problems with time management and organizational skills, a lack of "follow through" is something that has plagued me my entire life. It is also something that has and still is changing with the help, encouragement and most of all the understanding of my Master NChaka. I don't know if your Master's difficulties arise for the same reasons mine do, but I can offer a bit of insight into what has helped me. One of the things that has been most helpful is that NChaka realizes that it is not because I do not care, which is the most common reaction in my experience. I very much do care and I react very negatively to the accusation that I don't. What was harder for me to accept was that when I failed to follow through in a timely manner, it actually did make people feel that I did not care; the result is the same whether I like it or not and no one, not even NChaka, is inside my head and heart to know that my intentions were good. It has taken Master realizing that I do care and me understanding and internalizing that the road to hell is paved with good intentions for real progress to be made. No matter how much I want to do something, if I don't actually do it, it still doesn't get done and ultimately I'm the only one in control of that. I want those I care about to know I care, so I'm motivated to change my behavior. There were two mistakes I was consistantly making that were the major causes of me not following through. One is underestimating the amount of time it will take me to do a given thing and the other is overestimating my abilities. They are obviously tied together. If I think I'm Supergirl, I'm going to assume I can get things done 'faster than a speeding bullet' and it's closer to the truth that I'm slower than molasses in January. It's been a combination of giving myself more realistic goals and expectations in both what I can do and how long it will take me to do it that is working to change things. I'm still struggling, but I'm definitely making progress. By lowering my expectations to realistic levels and giving myself more time, I'm getting a lot more actually done and even have some time left over now and then. There is one more thought I would like to add regarding the topic in general. I believe one of the greatest disservices we (in the communal sense) do is in our collective expectation of perfection in a Dominant. Of course there are the usual nods to "Dominants are only human" but listen to what one of the communal truisms says: "Dominants must master themselves before they can expect to master anyone else." Mastered. A masterpiece-- flawless. Now there is an element of truth in that statement to be certain, but there is also that hidden expectation of perfection, or something so close to it that the difference is negligible. Even the best Dominants are flawed human beings, sometimes even seriously, just as are submissives. And just as the Dominants can be the catalyst for change, exploration and growth in the submissive, so can submissives be the catalyst for change, exploration and growth in the Dominant. In fact, I can't imagine why that isn't just as important of an element in the dynamics of any healthly relationship. Yet it is clear that the percieved risks for the Dominant being open about those things are not entirely imagined. Many submissives can "know" that their Dominant is flawed, as long as they don't have to discuss it or talk about it. They 'demand' that mythical image of "the perfect Master". It just seems to me a shame that this aspect of D/s relationships is discussed so little because of sometimes silly and often times unrealistic expectations, and that the lack of those discussions only perpetuates the myth.

breatheasone -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 8:52:54 AM)
quote: and if your truly owned, whatever you divulge shouldn't be grounds for dismissal. This is what gave me the courage to talk to Him..Master has SO ingrained in me that I am His PERIOD that it hit me...I can talk to Him because I am His....

breatheasone -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 9:02:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amiciaN Hi breatheasone-- I'm glad to hear that things went well when you spoke to your Master about what was troubling you. As someone who has severe problems with time management and organizational skills, a lack of "follow through" is something that has plagued me my entire life. It is also something that has and still is changing with the help, encouragement and most of all the understanding of my Master NChaka. I don't know if your Master's difficulties arise for the same reasons mine do, but I can offer a bit of insight into what has helped me. One of the things that has been most helpful is that NChaka realizes that it is not because I do not care, which is the most common reaction in my experience. I very much do care and I react very negatively to the accusation that I don't. What was harder for me to accept was that when I failed to follow through in a timely manner, it actually did make people feel that I did not care; the result is the same whether I like it or not and no one, not even NChaka, is inside my head and heart to know that my intentions were good. It has taken Master realizing that I do care and me understanding and internalizing that the road to hell is paved with good intentions for real progress to be made. No matter how much I want to do something, if I don't actually do it, it still doesn't get done and ultimately I'm the only one in control of that. I want those I care about to know I care, so I'm motivated to change my behavior. There were two mistakes I was consistantly making that were the major causes of me not following through. One is underestimating the amount of time it will take me to do a given thing and the other is overestimating my abilities. They are obviously tied together. If I think I'm Supergirl, I'm going to assume I can get things done 'faster than a speeding bullet' and it's closer to the truth that I'm slower than molasses in January. It's been a combination of giving myself more realistic goals and expectations in both what I can do and how long it will take me to do it that is working to change things. I'm still struggling, but I'm definitely making progress. By lowering my expectations to realistic levels and giving myself more time, I'm getting a lot more actually done and even have some time left over now and then. There is one more thought I would like to add regarding the topic in general. I believe one of the greatest disservices we (in the communal sense) do is in our collective expectation of perfection in a Dominant. Of course there are the usual nods to "Dominants are only human" but listen to what one of the communal truisms says: "Dominants must master themselves before they can expect to master anyone else." Mastered. A masterpiece-- flawless. Now there is an element of truth in that statement to be certain, but there is also that hidden expectation of perfection, or something so close to it that the difference is negligible. Even the best Dominants are flawed human beings, sometimes even seriously, just as are submissives. And just as the Dominants can be the catalyst for change, exploration and growth in the submissive, so can submissives be the catalyst for change, exploration and growth in the Dominant. In fact, I can't imagine why that isn't just as important of an element in the dynamics of any healthly relationship. Yet it is clear that the percieved risks for the Dominant being open about those things are not entirely imagined. Many submissives can "know" that their Dominant is flawed, as long as they don't have to discuss it or talk about it. They 'demand' that mythical image of "the perfect Master". It just seems to me a shame that this aspect of D/s relationships is discussed so little because of sometimes silly and often times unrealistic expectations, and that the lack of those discussions only perpetuates the myth. Thankyou SO much for sharing that...you sound like a female version of my Master for sure...LOL....I have said it before and i'll say it again, Master and I are not perfect...not even alittle...but we are perfect for each other. I KNOW that He means well...I KNOW that He doesnt mean to hurt my feelings. I need to be more aware of that and remind myself of that when things arise and "shit happens".....and we all know ..SHIT always happens!

rmanrr -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 9:39:34 AM)
Greetings you have the right of it I think. If the intent is not there, then the hurt (if caused) should be spoken about. If the intent is there, then the hurt caused should be spoken about. In short, speaking up is far far better in order to excise the wound, clean it, examine it and then heal it from both sides of the dynamic. There are those who will disagree, as always. "It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt." The quote I believe refers to the practice of spouting off on topics about someone knows nothing but seems to be informed...then is outed as the idiot they be. Speaking from the heart, using one's intelligence and common sense, now that is to be admired, accepted and discussed without judging. Just My two cents Canadian, now worth more heh heh.

AquaticSub -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 9:44:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone Has anyone ("s" types) seen a pattern of behavior in there "D" type that was truly trouble waiting to happen, but were afraid to broach the subject because you were worried that the afore mentioned "D" type might say..."Thats just how I am, so perhaps I'm not the one for you." For me, in this relationship, the only risk I run in bringing anything to Valyraen is that it might get fixed. He encourages me to speak to him about anything and I do. Even things I wouldn't have ever thought I could. We talk about him too, his strengths and his shortcomings. Above all else, we want us to succeed so the both of us are willing to change and grow to make that work.

agirl -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 9:49:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone It occurs to me that because I have omitted the behavior I am seeking in put on that Y'all might be thinking something MUCH worse than is actually the case...so with that mindset I'll say . What I am speaking about is a lack of follow through...Not doing what you said you were going to do.....This behavior is very hurtful to me, for a whole host of reasons that my Master is aware of. He does NOT do this with ANY malice, or intentional misleading....I WHOLE heartedly believe He intends to do what He said He would...and "things just come up( A LOT)." This also makes it very hard to talk to Him about, because i KNOW He would NEVER hurt me on purpose...so I kinda feel bad for wanting to tell Him that He is doing just that, because its so hit and miss.... Interesting one. My dearest friend and ex-partner used to say that a lot, almost word for word, something came up or things got in the way. I knew full well that he had NO intentions of hurting me, nor was it with any malice, as you mentioned, but it still had that effect. I also know that he used to wholeheartedly INTEND to do as he said, but over time it became apparent that things that came up were always going to do so. He's still the closest person to me , next to M. As partners, his knack of allowing things to come up was destructive.......As friends, it isn't. Intentions on his side, and understanding on mine, only carried us so far and there came a point when I realised that although it wasn't done with any hurtful thoughts in mind, it meant I had difficulty trusting that he'd be able to carry out the things he said he'd do. It was destructive to us as an us, to always be thinking.....* I'll believe it if it happens*. There's only so many times that you can talk, express or write about something, before you realise that it's not making a difference or that it's not GOING to make a difference, long term. I didn't think badly of him nor dislike him but it wasn't possible to rely on him. He's someone that I know that I care deeply for(still) but not someone I could continue being in a partner-type relationship with and it was a tremendously difficult to walk away from that. As with many things.......Time will tell. agirl

Level -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 10:43:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone For the "D" types.... How troubling would it be if your "s" type brought something to your attention(with FULL respect of course) that you KNEW would be VERY difficult to change and or address? Thanks in advance.... Sincerely, Candy It would be expected of her to do so.

breatheasone -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 11:45:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone For the "D" types.... How troubling would it be if your "s" type brought something to your attention(with FULL respect of course) that you KNEW would be VERY difficult to change and or address? Thanks in advance.... Sincerely, Candy It would be expected of her to do so. Yeah...and you know I think I already knew the answer....sometimes I just need to say "hey...is this right?"...know what I mean?

xAdamx -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 12:28:54 PM)
Any relationship based on genuine honesty/regard/care for, will withstand change. My subbys needs come before my desire. I listen, l take note and ajust. To fear is a wasted emotion, fear is irrational and robs you of life. If you are unable to speak your thoughts, then suggest. Better still write your suggestions down. Use the power of suggestion to how your relationship/pleasure will be greatly enhanced if he/she did this or do that

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 1:42:19 PM)
You've already gotten a lot of great advice and perspectives here (many compliments to TammyJo) so I will just point out that this seems to be a great example of how we all like to talk about honest and open communication, but how it rarely ever happens or happens well when the situation arises.

breatheasone -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 1:56:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross You've already gotten a lot of great advice and perspectives here (many compliments to TammyJo) so I will just point out that this seems to be a great example of how we all like to talk about honest and open communication, but how it rarely ever happens or happens well when the situation arises. I agree...So trust me when I tell you that I appreciate that its a process...and I'm grateful that I have a Master that understands that. He and I both desire to understand each other better and to learn more. I stumble....I am in very new territory here. Master has been my rock...when I let Him that is... I am learning, He is learning. The journey is cool but not always smooth. So learning to check my reactions, I still suck at it.[:(]

Level -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 2:01:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone For the "D" types.... How troubling would it be if your "s" type brought something to your attention(with FULL respect of course) that you KNEW would be VERY difficult to change and or address? Thanks in advance.... Sincerely, Candy It would be expected of her to do so. Yeah...and you know I think I already knew the answer....sometimes I just need to say "hey...is this right?"...know what I mean? Yes, I do know what you mean. [;)] I hope it all works out for you.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Speaking up....is it worth the risk? (11/25/2007 2:04:34 PM)
if i don't speak up about anything and something, how will Daddy (or SO) know that there's a problem with our relationship? i'm not going to be meek and silent and let things continue until the problem grows out of hand. that's why we have such great communication between us.

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