RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords?

RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (Full Version)

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Wulfchyld -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 3:23:01 PM)
Repeat after me. I will always, always, always, have safe words.

genvieve -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 3:25:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld Repeat after me. I will always, always, always, have safe words. ~clears muh throat and uses muh best imitation voice~ i will always always always have a safeword

Vendaval -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 3:35:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jillwfsub4blkdom i was curious as to whether a slave in training should be allowed to use the safeword? Yes, of course a slave or sub in training needs safewords. i think i had indicated i had met a "Dom" recently who had given me two safewords to use during a meeting. A very good action on his part. When i asked some other bdsm communities whether T/they thought it was acceptable, many said it shouldnt be used because of the slave in training status. A/anyone else's opinions? Horsefeathers! Newbies are the very people most in need of safewords. Do you want to be a crime statistic waiting to happen or alive and kicking? -Vendaval-

foxnotinsox -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 3:40:46 PM)
When I ran play parties, we had the traffic light safewords for the bottoms as part of the rules .. plus MayDay which could be used by anybody at anytime .. say if somebody fainted. I believe part of the training should be in learning how to safeword .. how to signal you are in trouble, how to communicate it, and how to deal with it ... else it's just some guy whacking at ya with no indication on when to stop or slow down. Dangerous stuff ... And so-called "punishment scenes" in which one is not "permitted" to safeword or to stop the action .. makes me shakes my head in wonderment .. that these guys keep on getting away with it. The best thing you can do is leave and walk away . ... and then <evil grin> go out and paint the town RED !

stef -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 4:00:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval Horsefeathers! Newbies are the very people most in need of safewords. Do you want to be a crime statistic waiting to happen or alive and kicking? Oh please. The only things safewords offer that normal communication does not is the introduction of ambiguity into a situation where none is ever needed and a false sense of security for newbies and others who don't know any better. They're hardly going to keep someone from becoming a "crime statistic." ~stef

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 4:41:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef Oh please. The only things safewords offer that normal communication does not is the introduction of ambiguity into a situation where none is ever needed and a false sense of security for newbies and others who don't know any better. They're hardly going to keep someone from becoming a "crime statistic." ~stef Your words fall on deaf ears. People "in the know" know that safewords are the cornerstone to safety, and without them, newbie slaves will spontaenously combust. The fact that newbies really shouldn't be jumping into intense resistance play, which is about the only thing safewords are any good for, doesn't mean a thing to them. The fact that telling a slave in training that "no means no" and "stop means stop" and "more means more" makes a lot more sense than "yellow means slow" and "red means stop" and "hoo chi mamma" means "my husband is coming", doesn't mean a thing to them. The fact that things like SSC and safewords are more for those who are "in the know" than for anyone's real safety, doesn't mean a thing to them. How dare you question them... All the worlds a stage, and all the men and women merely players. Your role is of one wise and unheard...they are the allknowing...wink I'd rather be you. Taggard

ImpGrrl -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 4:49:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD jillwfsub4blkdom everyone in Alternate Lifestyles has safewords Dominants submissives slaves period. Not true. quote: *ANYONE whom doesNOT have a safeword is NOT practicing S.S.C. which means in OUR Lifestyle SAFE SANE CONCENSUAL.* This is probably true. However, "SSC" is not the be-all, end-all, and I prefer those I play with not recite this mantra ad infinitum. quote: IF you jillwfsub4blkdom find a Dominant whom dont agree send em MY WAY and ILL getem STRAIGHT. Hooray for One True Way-ism in action.

Dustyn -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 5:03:44 PM)
If safewords aren't allowed, be prepared for hospital bills and investigatiosn on alleged abuse, which in some states can be started not by 'abused' but by the medical officials that tend to your injuries... - Dustyn

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 5:17:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn If safewords aren't allowed, be prepared for hospital bills and investigatiosn on alleged abuse, which in some states can be started not by 'abused' but by the medical officials that tend to your injuries... And just how would safewords protect you in this case? Would they have magically prevented the injury? Are you somehow implying that they would provide legal shelter? (If you were, you would be wrong.) Open communication with real words that mean what everyone thinks they mean is a far better safety net than any system of safewords will ever be. I have been in this thing for a while now, and I have yet to see or hear of one real life scene (not involving heavy role or resitance play) that was demostrably made safer by the use of arbitrarily defined safewords. I would love for someone to enlighten me...I am always willing to learn. Taggard

Dustyn -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 5:23:31 PM)
Words do not deflect arrows, so to speak... but in this type of relationship, the EASIEST way to get injured is to keep one's trap shut, either physically or proverbially... here's a bland, but probable, scenario... erotic asphixiation... go to far and the person dies... if you use a tap out signal, the other person should, in theory, release the pressure... doesn't mean they HAVE to, but there is a better chance of living through the experience if you use some of the grey matter as more than a hat rack... just my take on it... - Dustyn

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 5:37:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn Words do not deflect arrows, so to speak... but in this type of relationship, the EASIEST way to get injured is to keep one's trap shut, either physically or proverbially... And do you honestly believe that safewords encourage abundant communication during a scene? Let me give you an example from my past. When I was very very new to this, I had a slave. We went to the hardware store and bought some chain. My slave spent 4 or 5 hours in the chain, and toward the end, I could tell she wasn't in the right headspace, but she didn't safeword (and we had quite a collection of them to communicate her state of mind) so I figured everything was ok. It really wasn't. During the aftercare, she confessed that she was getting bad cramps and was very very uncomfortable. So I asked, "Why didn't you safeword?" and she replied "I didn't even think about it." I was crushed. I had no intention of hurting my slave (at least in ways I didn't intend :-) and realized that safewords were no better, and perhaps an actual impediment, than plain old communication. I don't do resistance play, so why should I make up words that mean other things when I can just use the normal word? Since then, I have spoken to many bottoms and many have said that during play they have not used a safeword when they wanted to communicate discomfort because 1) they forgot the word 2) they were in subspace and wen't non-verbal or 3) they felt that using a safeword was a failure. What could possibly be less safe than a system where the one giving the pain is relying on the bottom to safeword when they have had enough, and the bottom refuses to give that signal because they feel like it would be a failure. Now, whenever I play, I make it crystal clear that "no means no", "stop means stop", and "ouch means ouch". (I also make it clear that "ouch" does not mean "stop". wink) This has worked far better for me than safewords ever did. quote: erotic asphixiation... go to far and the person dies... if you use a tap out signal, the other person should, in theory, release the pressure... doesn't mean they HAVE to, but there is a better chance of living through the experience if you use some of the grey matter as more than a hat rack... So you have an example that actually involves a "safeword"? Taggard

mixielicous -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 5:42:16 PM)
i had a safeword until i was formally [permanantly] collared, but i retired it on my own. i am sure D would have let me keep it but i never used it and also felt it hindered my willingness to serve. i am always allowed though to speak up if i am about to embark on some kind of unintentional permanent damage of any kind.

Vendaval -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 6:57:44 PM)
I do Scenes with several heavy masochists, and safe words are absolutely used. I know these people well, and can tell a great deal by their breathing and body language. They like having the limits pushed, but do use the "yellow" or "red" safe word when the impact is too strong or the blows fall too fast. Sometimes "yellow" means a change of position, adjusting the bondage gear, or giving them some water to drink. In Scenes where the sub is gagged, then dropping an object or snapping fingers works. I have heard "Red" rarely, and that is usually because of a psychological limit rather than a physical one. I also use the 1- 10 scale of pain with 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest. This method is especially useful with newbies who frequently have only a vague idea of how much is not enough or too much. Regards, -Vendaval- quote: ORIGINAL: Dustyn Words do not deflect arrows, so to speak... but in this type of relationship, the EASIEST way to get injured is to keep one's trap shut, either physically or proverbially... - Dustyn

Daddysredhead -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 7:03:14 PM)
I totally believe in safewords, although I have never had to use one. A new person is especially needing these, like training wheels when learning to ride a bike.

MsPoetress -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 7:09:16 PM)
quote: Not everyone believes in safe words. However, if you are going to use safewords, it surely would be with a slave in training. Once a slave has been trained to her Master/Owner's likes and (assumably) he learns her limits as well, safewords can usually be dispensed with. I agree with TallDarkAndWitty on this one. In training there should always be 'safewords' established. That was the first thing my husband and I did. Now that we have come to know each other's boundaries and limits, it is not as much as an issue. ~poe

ownedgirlie -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 8:38:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Diamond Diva, My favorite safe word - OUCH! Or if she is gagged or blindfolded I use a visual safe word, like "Isn't that your bone coming through your skin?"[sm=lol.gif] My problem with the whole safe word concept is that while you are considering what stage of the stoplight aren't you missing out on the experience? And from the Dom's point of view, at least this one being that I hate surprises of this nature, I would want to start at a Red point and work my way back-wards. And loving a challenge, what does that say about a Dom's intensity if he doesn't at least hit "Amber/Orange"? I say, instead of learning safe words, take you time and learn your partner. During a session - read them, touch them, whisper to them and have them respond. Everyone, even if it's been 20+ years ago, has romanced and been with a new vanilla partner. Before being romantic with them did you have a checklist of where you can/cannot touch, kiss, caress? No - a good lover has no script. A good lover reads the reactions of the partner, reacts to them, and expands the sensations. There is no difference with a good Dom. A good Dom makes love to the sub not only with his/her body, but with their mind. The floggers, whips, clips, etc, are mere props. I wouldn't want to be a part of the process if my sub was ever thinking about a safe word instead of me and the feeling. Merc Wow this is a really old post but this thread was brought to the surface so I read it...and I have to say, what a fantastic post. Merc, you expressed what I had trouble expressing earlier. I have never had a safe word (and one here on CM asked me if I was stupid or insane for that). My Master took the time to know me and read me and know exactly when to pull back and when to push forward...exactly as you have stated. Thank you for your words.

unquenchable -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 8:41:22 PM)
I would not play without a safeword. Though I have seldom needed to use it. un--------

genvieve -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 9:14:50 PM)
Safewords do not exist to defend the submissive. Good god, if the submissive is in need of defending while in subspace, he or she is in trouble. i don't think i could defend myself if you had a gun to my head durring those times. No, a safeword exists for BOTH parties. For the submissive, it exists so that if things get to be too much, he or she can use it to stop the scene. Again, W/we are assuming that the Dominant will adhere to the SSC rules, if not, it's not BDSM, it's abuse. For the Dominant, it exists so that He or She can know the submissive has a out...and can thus feel free to push and prod at the submissive's limits. Question: Do you also establish a non-verbal safeword?

catize -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 9:22:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld Repeat after me. I will always, always, always, have safe words. Here's a thought: (all submissives/slaves raise your right hand and repeat) "I will always, always, always communicate when I am unable to tolerate any more." (all dominants raise your right hand and repeat) "I will always, always, always pay attention to what is happening with my submissive/slave and stop before I need to call 911 or the therapist."

truesub4u -> RE: should a slave in training be allowed safewords? (5/2/2006 9:28:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD jillwfsub4blkdom everyone in Alternate Lifestyles has safewords Dominants submissives slaves period. ANYONE whom doesNOT have a safeword is NOT practicing S.S.C. which means in OUR Lifestyle SAFE SANE CONCENSUAL. safe words are for All and can and will be used by ALL when needed at any time. IF you jillwfsub4blkdom find a Dominant whom dont agree send em MY WAY and ILL getem STRAIGHT. LOL... MistressDread... this response... makes me miss the bright colors you use to use...[:)]

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