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Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 6:14:18 AM   
Owner59


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The right wing is getting more brazen in their plan to confuse racism with homeland security. This group is arguing against the melting pot on security grounds.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/terrorism.php?id=1385596

Are they scared ninnies, or do they have a point?

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 6:39:55 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		The link locked when I tried to view it but I know of no stable multi cultural society in the whole world.
Surely you are aware of the total fiction surrounding the "success" of the US melting pot.

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 8:00:32 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Same problem with the link sorry - it cant seem to download.

Multicultural is fine, as long as the multitude of cultures are linked by a common identity and common values. It only becomes a problem when, as in the UK, the idea is promoted that one's own culture and an identity and values specific to it, are more important than the common identity and values. And it becomes a problem, because we are sharing a geographic location and have to get along as a single society, living according to common values (laws et al) and participating in both contributing to and deriving benefit from that single society - and if we promote the idea that some may be exempted from their responsibilites to the whole by way of specific differences of culture, then we no longer have a society or nation.

E


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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 9:07:01 AM   
slaveluci


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


The right wing is getting more brazen in their plan to confuse racism with homeland security. This group is arguing against the melting pot on security grounds.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/terrorism.php?id=1385596

Are they scared ninnies, or do they have a point?



Scared ninnies.  The link opened fine for me.  I skimmed it.  If I want to pay enough, I can purchase a series of educational materials telling me just how dangerous radical Islamic folks can be.  Ninnies, most definitely.........luci

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 10:22:24 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


The right wing is getting more brazen in their plan to confuse racism with homeland security. This group is arguing against the melting pot on security grounds.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/terrorism.php?id=1385596

Are they scared ninnies, or do they have a point?



Hi Owner59...This semi radical think group may classify itself as right wing...but why do you assume they represent the majority of the so-called rightwing thinking?

Seeksfemslave…. I would like to hear sometime why you think The United States is not stable because of its mix of many cultures.

LadyEllen…I think you have cut right to the heart of the problem… There are some people that will not compromise in anyway to live with others of differing cultures…usually because of religious reasons. Even this would be acceptable unless religious law conflicted with civil law.

Butch

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 10:30:32 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

The link locked when I tried to view it but I know of no stable multi cultural society in the whole world.


...try googling 'metis'.

Multi culturalism is an inevitability based on access to transport and enhanced communication modes. Mono culturalism is the problem, not multi culturalism.

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 11:38:27 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Ever notice that when the term "multi-culturalism" is used it always seems to involve immigration (to) Western countries?
Why only Western countries?
Why not say, immigration from India to China or Japan?
Or from S. America to the Middle East?
All those countries need a good shot of "multi-culturalism" right in the ass. Why should they be happy?
Look at China and Japan. Their cultures are "monolithic."
And, Bosnia and Kosovo used to be "multi-cultural" but they're now segregated by religion!
Like the old saying goes, "there's such a thing as too much of a good thing!"
Everytime I see a parade with a bunch of people dressed up like giant chickens I say to myself; "There you go Tommy, you're getting some REAL CULTURE now!"
I feel sooooooo "culturally enriched" everytime I see someone dressed up in a giant chicken suit! God, it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up! It makes me want to hand out welfare checks written in foreign languages!
I want to *EMBRACE* my giant chicken suited brethren!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/26/2007 11:55:25 AM >

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 11:43:17 AM   
Alumbrado


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Status: offline 		You don't actually know anything about China do you?  Or does everyone with an epicantheal fold look alike to you?


< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 11/26/2007 11:47:49 AM >

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 12:23:07 PM   
philosophy


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...you may find this illuminating Popeye........
China could, arguably, be described as the world's oldest and largest multi-cultural civilisation.

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 12:28:22 PM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Seeksfemslave…. I would like to hear sometime why you think The United States is not stable because of its mix of many cultures.Butch

Well I should think the murder rate in particular and violent crime rate in general  are two indicators.

The hatred that exists in areas of Los Angeles or New York between Blacks and Hispanics or in the Southern rural areas between Whites and Blacks

The gated community mentality where wealthy, usually whites, sequester themselves away from the problems created by segments of the urban poor.
The kind of anti federal thinking that led to the blowing up of that building in Oklahoma City.
A Brit TV crew was recently filmed entering a ghetto accompanied by armed guards. I believe it was actually in St Louis tho' I am not sure.
In general as I understand it the different immigrant groups tend to live in their own neighbourhoods at arms length from one another.
The Jews the Blacks the Hispanic and say the Irish in NYC. for example.

I believe the Univ. of Chicago has armed guards patrolling the "border" lol ie the dividing line between the Univ. and the adjacent ghetto.

I expect you can point to large areas of the country where serious social problems dont exist but in the major metropolitan areas I think that a " mind my own business keep a low profile and associate with my own kind" mentally exists.

All the above problems have increased in the UK as we have become more multi cultural.

If immigration was considered to be so successful why were limitions imposed in the early 20th century ? I refer to the quota system.

adding:areas of Washington DC quite near the White House and I think its called Liberty City  not far from Miami Airport are a bit of a problem. NO?

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 11/26/2007 12:46:21 PM >

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 12:31:50 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

The gated community mentality where wealthy, usually whites, sequester themselves away from the problems created by segments of the urban poor.


.........so, being rich or poor constitutes a culture in your mind does it? Therefore, as you're against multiculturalism, i take it you'd support a policy of wealth redistribution...or would you rather deport the poor?

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 12:36:23 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:China_ethnolinguistic_83.jpg

...you may find this illuminating Popeye........
China could, arguably, be described as the world's oldest and largest multi-cultural civilisation.


Oh I'm sure!
Then there's Tibet!
I don't know if there's anyone left on the planet who thinks that the U.S. isn't multi-cultural "enough."
From my perspective living in the U.S. it's not "neccessary" and it hasn't really been "successfull" unless you count not being able to converse with people as a "success."
And generation after generation on welfare and involved with the police and drugs.
If we're (The U.S.) going to continue to allow any immigration we need to keep it to highly educated individuals such as yourself.
No country can absorb tens of millions of poor from third world countries who become a drain on it's social infrastructure.
And then there's the tens of millions of illegals!
Besides, I like America the way it is!
Again, why must "multi-culturalism" always involve immigration to Western countries?

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 12:39:14 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Again, why must "multi-culturalism" always involve immigration to Western countries?


...it doesn't. However, it does include it.

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 1:02:58 PM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
The gated community mentality where wealthy, usually whites, sequester themselves away from the problems created by segments of the urban poor.

.........so, being rich or poor constitutes a culture in your mind does it? Therefore, as you're against multiculturalism, i take it you'd support a policy of wealth redistribution...or would you rather deport the poor?

I think that by and large wealthy people have a different culture to poor people Yes. Just as academic types have a different culture than say sporty types and soap operas not withstanding the two rarely mix.

I have no problem with  sensible attempts to help anybody be they poor or rich. To artificially create a multi cultural society...I am against that. Does it show lol ?

Is it not true that many Welsh hold a dim view of the increasing numbers of English buying up the housing stock ? Why is that ?

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 1:14:11 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I think that by and large wealthy people have a different culture to poor people Yes. Just as academic types have a different culture than say sporty types and soap operas not withstanding the two rarely mix.


....and you are on the record as being against multiculturalism. So what is your solution to the multiculturalism you describe in the above quote?

quote:


I have no problem with  sensible attempts to help anybody be they poor or rich. To artificially create a multi cultural society...I am against that. Does it show lol ?


not really.......what does show is that you appear to be against a certain type of multiculturalism. One that could be defined as foreigners.

quote:

Is it not true that many Welsh hold a dim view of the increasing numbers of English buying up the housing stock ? Why is that ?


....for exactly the same reason that many people who live and work in English rural settlements are against rich English people buying up all the housing stock. Because since Thatcher gutted the council housing stock, any such move by the rich makes it impossible for those who live and work in the countryside to own a house.You seem to want to try and suggest that the Welsh hate other cultures just for being other cultures. Go to an Eisteddford Genedlaethol, there you will see that the Welsh have a welcoming attitude to other cultures.

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 2:27:16 PM   
pinksugarsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


The right wing is getting more brazen in their plan to confuse racism with homeland security. This group is arguing against the melting pot on security grounds.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/terrorism.php?id=1385596

Are they scared ninnies, or do they have a point?




Frank Salvato points out three instances in which oversight in aid or hiring failed, and the agencies involved were properly taken to task for these failures, which may have been the result of a policy or lack thereof.
 
i don't disagree with his point regarding profiling; if anything causes concern to the FBI agent doing the vetting, he or she should be free to pursue it. 
 
However, i don't think multiculturialism is the big, bad monster in America's closet.  Respect and tolerance across racial, ethnic and religious lines seems desirable to me.  Bringing this up in the context of this article makes me think Salvato secretly yearns for the USA of the '50's; which for many citizens was not so hot.
 
pinksugarsub

< Message edited by pinksugarsub -- 11/26/2007 2:30:39 PM >

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 2:47:11 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Seeks, "sporty types?"
Do you mean like "Sportin' Ladies?"
Now there's another "culture" that I'd REALLY like to be more involved with!

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 3:11:14 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Thanks for taking the time to answer seeksfemslave. I don’t agree with you but I appreciate you answering me.

From some of your previous posts I understand you have traveled extensively in the US but traveling and living a whole life is a bit different.
I happen to live in St Louis and I can tell you there is no ghetto. There are areas with a black majority, the north side… and areas the whites are the majority.. the south side. But even then there is a mix in these areas. The surrounding cities...by far the largest population areas have a mix of peoples and cultures…no ghettos there either. Yes there are political struggles for City resources and there are some racial tensions but nothing that does not get worked out. Right now there is tension over the demoting of an African American fire chief in St Louis... there is no violence. ..These are good people wanting to make sure there is fairness in testing in the department. You make it sound like people can’t walk the streets without fear…not true … we get along just fine and believe me the so called black culture in our area is shared and enjoyed by black and whites. There are many more cultures in our area… we have an extensive Moslem community…many refuges from Bosnia…on and on. It has enriched our lives rather than separate them.

People living together in communities does not mean racism at all… people like to live with others that they have common interests with… that is humane nature. Those that choose to live elsewhere do so.

To me what makes the true melting pot work is not making people like each other…but to respect their common rights. It has been a long hard fight to remove discrimination in jobs, housing, and education but we are close enough that we are continuing to come together rather than move apart.

That’s why I think we are doing a better job in America then Europe because we have had more practice. We are a whole country of relatively new immigrants we’ve had to adjust.

The violence in America is often thrown in our faces as proof of discrimination…but as it turns out there is more violence in the UK by far then the US. Yes we have the shame of leading in murder and rape… where you are 3 times more likely to be assaulted and your property crime is also higher then ours… Lets face it crime is increasing in the whole world… it is not a melting pot problem.

The  melting pot does not make our country unstable at all... It is what gives us our strength

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/26/2007 3:22:49 PM >

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 3:40:57 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


The right wing is getting more brazen in their plan to confuse racism with homeland security. This group is arguing against the melting pot on security grounds.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/terrorism.php?id=1385596

Are they scared ninnies, or do they have a point?




Owner, I think anyone can argue against the "melting pot" theory for any number of reasons.
There's lumps in the soup.
It worked real good 100 years ago.

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RE: Multiculturalim is dangurous? - 11/26/2007 4:02:21 PM   
seeksfemslave


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quote:

kdsub
The violence in America is often thrown in our faces as proof of discrimination…but as it turns out there is more violence in the UK by far then the US. Yes we have the shame of leading in murder and rape… where you are 3 times more likely to be assaulted and your property crime is also higher then ours… Lets face it crime is increasing in the whole world… it is not a melting pot problem.


The increases you mention kdsub are not infrequently related to  the increase in the multi cultural mix of  UK society. That is my point.
I have done more than travelled in the US I have actually lived there for almost 5 years and I think I have never made an anti American post. I do not think America is perfect and some of the recent history particularly the one sided support for Israel and especially the Vietnam episode are/were shameful.

My particulat bete noire is multi culturalism and its supposed advantages. Since many in the US believe that multi culturalism is without problems. ie idealisng the melting pot concept,  I simply point to things that  show that all is not well which anyone who is not seeking "re election" knows anyway.
Exactly the same arguments could be applied to the UK, France, Australia Germany....etc etc

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