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RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/28/2007 10:06:46 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl

OMG!!! What have I started?
 
jen


RUN!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to sammiebabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/28/2007 10:08:53 PM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline 		 
Some people actually do transfer that authority; others simply like to play pretend.

Stephan

Amen.

If I come only with the offer of "my" wants, needs, and desires, unwilling to yield,
bend, or break to the Dominant before me, wherein lies my surrender, obedience,
and offer of submission? Far from the mindset of "do what you will", but find no
satisfaction surrounding myself with, "oh I just couldn't, no that's just not me, ah..
don't think so, naw, way to icky, in a pigs eye I will, grab my what, my back my
back, get off me, that looks prettier in the box, put it back, you want me to do
what with what, I'm submissive as long as I don't have to change my shoes, etc.,
add nauseam.

Of course that which works for a relationship, will work for that relationship,
more power to you, or less power, as the case may be.

If a Dominant desires me to live under her skirt, wonderful, but if she insists I
come out every now and then to wash and iron it, I can at least be gracious
enough to surrender my talents in accomplishing such. To suddenly feign my
inability or unwillingness to get my hands wet sounds just a tad selfish to me.

Life is full of give an take, why the hell should this little daydream be any different?

chia* (the pet) 

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/28/2007 10:11:16 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet

 
Some people actually do transfer that authority; others simply like to play pretend.

Stephan

Amen.

If I come only with the offer of "my" wants, needs, and desires, unwilling to yield,
bend, or break to the Dominant before me, wherein lies my surrender, obedience,
and offer of submission? Far from the mindset of "do what you will", but find no
satisfaction surrounding myself with, "oh I just couldn't, no that's just not me, ah..
don't think so, naw, way to icky, in a pigs eye I will, grab my what, my back my
back, get off me, that looks prettier in the box, put it back, you want me to do
what with what, I'm submissive as long as I don't have to change my shoes, etc.,
add nauseam.

Of course that which works for a relationship, will work for that relationship,
more power to you, or less power, as the case may be.

If a Dominant desires me to live under her skirt, wonderful, but if she insists I
come out every now and then to wash and iron it, I can at least be gracious
enough to surrender my talents in accomplishing such. To suddenly feign my
inability or unwillingness to get my hands wet sounds just a tad selfish to me.

Life is full of give an take, why the hell should this little daydream be any different?

chia* (the pet) 



Agreed.



Chia!  Where have you been?  I've missed the plant thing!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to chiaThePet)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/28/2007 10:14:17 PM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3




Agreed.



Chia!  Where have you been?  I've missed the plant thing!


Washing and ironing, damn I hate these Holiday sequins.

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/28/2007 10:56:43 PM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl

OMG!!! What have I started?
 
jen


RUN!



Noooooooooo.........***quietly motions to Rumpus to get behind jen and start cornering her** **starts laying out little treats for jen to follow**** Come here, jen, you don't need to runcome here, sweetttttttttie!!!!! Quit runnin, lol!!!!

_____________________________

Anyone can overpower; not many can INSPIRE.....

This is only MY opinion. If it's not yours, let's agree in advance to agree to disagree, OR, you can just get the fuck over what I had to say:)

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/28/2007 11:19:07 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl

OMG!!! What have I started?
 
jen


RUN!



Noooooooooo.........***quietly motions to Rumpus to get behind jen and start cornering her** **starts laying out little treats for jen to follow**** Come here, jen, you don't need to runcome here, sweetttttttttie!!!!! Quit runnin, lol!!!!


Do not trust the scary women!!!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/28/2007 11:22:14 PM   
Reage


Posts: 4
Joined: 8/18/2005
Status: offline 		AHH, THE QUESTION OF THE AGES.  The Dom has as much control as the sub gives him.  This is the underlying trust agreement in these tantalizing agreements.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/28/2007 11:35:51 PM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl

OMG!!! What have I started?
 
jen


RUN!



Noooooooooo.........***quietly motions to Rumpus to get behind jen and start cornering her** **starts laying out little treats for jen to follow**** Come here, jen, you don't need to runcome here, sweetttttttttie!!!!! Quit runnin, lol!!!!


Do not trust the scary women!!!



*Looks for the innocent batting eyelashes, angel halo, anything innocent looking icong and finds the closest approximation is this flying thing:

We're not scary!!!!!! We are friendly!!!!**looks for the innocent icon again**

_____________________________

Anyone can overpower; not many can INSPIRE.....

This is only MY opinion. If it's not yours, let's agree in advance to agree to disagree, OR, you can just get the fuck over what I had to say:)

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/28/2007 11:37:10 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		I bet you didn't even type that with a straight face!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 4:29:13 AM   
rubberpet


Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Amen Brother Stephan!  This is, to me, the primary reason why some people simply don't believe in the possibility of TPE relationships.  When i chose to enter into a TPE relationship with my Master, i handed over to Him all rights to the decision-making power over me and my life.  i gave Him the ownership rights over me and He is the One who decides when and to what degree i can exercise any free will of my own, including when i can use the bathroom.  There is plenty that i do that i don't enjoy doing and that i would rather not do.  i do it, not because i want to but, because i do whatever my Master tells me to do.  It never enters my mind to disobey Him.  If i wasn't going to obey Him, i wouldn't have become His slave.

He had originally said that i could choose to release myself from my enslavement to Him and leave whenever i wanted.  Two nights ago, He told me that He was rescinding that option.  That made me very happy.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
quote:

ORIGINAL: SunNMoon
quote:

ORIGINAL: rubberpet

I feel that no matter how dominant someone is, the sub is ultimately in control.  It is up to the sub whether they choose to obey or not.  If the sub chooses not to obey his/her dominant, the dominant ultimately has no control.  The sub who chooses to obey gives up control to the dominant of their own free will.  It is simply a matter of obedience.  The sub won't do anything he/she doesn't want to do.  In other words, the dominant only has the amount of control that the sub allows.

Just my opinion.


I very much agree with RubberPet. That it is the free will of the sub that with each action they are giving up control. Without there choice the dom is powerless, they have no control over the sub.


This illustrates the difference between authority transfer, and the illusion of authority transfer.

Some people actually do transfer that authority; others simply like to play pretend.

Stephan




This is a statement that is very true.  Some people are game players, others take the life very seriously.  I, for one, take it very seriously.  I am a very proud and strong submissive.  Mistress will tell you the same thing.  But as strong as I have to be in my vanilla life, I hunger down to the very bottom of my soul to be lower than the ground She walks upon.  With Mistress, I have no limits because I know She will never command me to do anything illegal or harmful to me.  She is a very responsible owner and therefore, I can give complete decision making authority to Her.  I want to be a slave in every possible sense of the word when it comes to Her.

Slavegirljoy, I feel your words to my core.  I feel that level of submission to Mistress.  How lenient or extreme She chooses to be with me is Her choice, of course, but I cherish the knowledge that there is no escape from Her.  That is the freedom of slavery.  If She sees an imperfection in me that She wishes to change, I'll do it because I want to be the very best I can be for Her.  She treats me with so much love and respect that She makes me want to be Her ball of clay so She may shape me into whatever She needs or chooses. 

_____________________________

Collared and devoted property of Mistress Lorelei (vampchick88) as of 3/26/08.

Rubberpet - The Resident Anti-Subby and mysterious shadowy figure known as Voodoo, proud hitman and wiseguy for the Subby Mafia.


(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 6:37:31 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		Getting back to the OP ... it reminds me a bit of my problem which is unconscious rocking. Before Master came along and showed me how much i did it ... i had absolutely no idea that i was sending people i was talking to ducking for cover LOL! One thing was certain, it annoyed the heck out of Him! So i had 2 good reasons to stop ... i didn't want to look stupid anymore ... and even more importantly, i didn't want to annoy Master! The difficulty arose in not realising i was doing it ... so while i am the one who has had to not only be willing, but to actually put the effort into making the change, Master is the One who has had to be vigilant! He is the One who tells me in words or with a look or a sign, that i am rocking inappropriately (as in, not in time to music playing!). Bringing it to my attention allows me to bring it up to the conscious level and then i can stop it. W/we achieved a huge reduction relatively quickly, so that it's at a bearable level, but it still creeps in sometimes when i am on the phone, when i am busting to go pee, when i am sitting on an uncomfortable chair, when i am "playing music in my head LOL!" and when i am overtired. That still sounds like a lot, but in practice, it's not too bad! In fact, as the one bit of micromanagement Master enjoys and has retained since W/we began is toilet permission, He will notice if i am rocking and looking edgy and say "Have you something to ask Me pet?" Usually i haven't asked already as i was trying to finish something first!

Speaking of which, in terms of operant conditioning, Master now has better control of my bladder release than i do! i am of the age where that gets dodgy, and before i met Him it was getting very worrisome. i had been to a female urologist and had exercises prescribed etc etc. i still have the feeling of suddenly being "caught short" sometimes and even using all the strategies the urologist suggested would still find me kinda waddling cross-legged to the toilet in a desperate urge to make it in time. VERY embarrassing in the office, at a conference, in the shops! If Master doesn't see my sudden look of panic, i just have to whisper to Him that i need a very particular instruction please, and He will tell me (in whispers if necessary) that i am NOT allowed to pee until i am sitting on the toilet and i have counted to x. x changes each time so i don't get complacent! It works every time ... the impulse urge dissipates and what's more, i can walk with a perfectly normal gait to the toilets, sit down and do the required count! It's AWESOME as far as i am concerned! Of course He would love to claim that He planned all of this upfront ... but that would be a lie LOL ... it just worked out this way. But He's very happy it has, and so am i!

So, with reference to the behaviour the OP described ... IF the Dominant wants it changed and is willing to do what He needs to do to facilitate that change, and IF you are willing to put the work into changing it as much as you are able, then I would think that some kind of awareness trigger might help to bring it to your level of consciousness so that you can put a stop to it (as i do with the rocking). Perhaps some words He says, or a sign or gesture ... finger over mouth and shake of the head for eg ... might be enough to jolt you into being able to do something about it. Don't expect overnight miracles if you try it ... it's something you would need to persevere with.

Regards
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to rubberpet)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 7:26:13 AM   
sammiebabygirl


Posts: 465
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: Upstate, NY
Status: offline 		Thank you, Maam Jay. That is a great story. It was exactly what I was looking for, should the need arise. So far, I have been lucky and most find my "problem" entertaining and they enjoy it.
 
jen

_____________________________

"Men are like pianos. When they get upright, i feel GRAND!!!"

http://charldine.com/jen2820

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 7:50:48 AM   
kc692


Posts: 3701
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I bet you didn't even type that with a straight face!


Hell, I had to go back for typos I was laughing so hard....you didnt fall for it?? dayum!!!!!!!

_____________________________

Anyone can overpower; not many can INSPIRE.....

This is only MY opinion. If it's not yours, let's agree in advance to agree to disagree, OR, you can just get the fuck over what I had to say:)

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 8:05:05 AM   
sammiebabygirl


Posts: 465
Joined: 10/23/2004
From: Upstate, NY
Status: offline 		You know what the scary thing is? I am running. I am runnning to Alabama to meet these scary women.
 
jen

_____________________________

"Men are like pianos. When they get upright, i feel GRAND!!!"

http://charldine.com/jen2820

(in reply to kc692)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 9:05:33 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chiaThePet

Of course that which works for a relationship, will work for that relationship,
more power to you, or less power, as the case may be.

chia* (the pet) 


Hiya chia (and joy, rubber pet, et al)

See, this was more or less the point of what I was saying.  Most people should not engage in absolute authority transfer relationships.  There's an incredible amount of trust and risk involved.  In no way am I trying to say TPE (or AAT or APE or whatever acronym you wish to use) are better, or a 'higher' form of submission; charlotte thrives in her collar, while Tigrita would probably wither if she were bound by one.  Different people have different needs.  In both of my relationships, there is authority transfer.  What is different, is the degree of that transfer.  Not everyone wants to transfer authority.

rubberpet,

For me, the statement "the submissive has the real power" was what triggered my post.  I think when the approach is "You own me to the degree I permit you to own me" illustrates a position of limited submission.  To me, it says "I'm only as submissive as I allow" rather than "I am reacting to your dominance."  The act of receiving willing submission is very different from actively dominating.  From your statements, you seem to enjoy feeling submissive.  That's great; I know my slave also enjoys feeling submissive.  What I perceive to be different, is that your submission is something you actively pursue; your owner receives  your submission.  I 'receive' very little submission; much of my power dynamic requires active, aggressive, and consistent domination on my part.

Thus, the answer to the original question is "I have as much control as I am able to inflict."  This is very different from someone elses perspective, where they say "I have as much control as my submissive wishes to give me."

Again, please understand this is not intended as a judgmental perspective; the only people who have to decide if a particular type of relationship is 'right' or 'wrong' are the people who are in that relationship.

Regards,

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to chiaThePet)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 4:31:02 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
The act of receiving willing submission is very different from actively dominating. 


Indeed it is.  The former is fun and potentially uplifting for both parties involved.

The latter is illegal, immoral, and punishable by long prison sentences in most of the civilized countries of the world.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 4:51:11 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sammiebabygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

LOL!  This was part of my thoughts, too.  I'd get a kick out of seeing just how bad and strange it would get as I kept tickling haha.


Oh boy!! If I ever find myself in a room with Gwyn, kc and yourself, I am in so much trouble.


You betchya doll... Trouble with a Capitol T!

Gwyn 

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to sammiebabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 5:08:08 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

rubberpet,

For me, the statement "the submissive has the real power" was what triggered my post. I think when the approach is "You own me to the degree I permit you to own me" illustrates a position of limited submission. To me, it says "I'm only as submissive as I allow" rather than "I am reacting to your dominance." The act of receiving willing submission is very different from actively dominating. From your statements, you seem to enjoy feeling submissive. That's great; I know my slave also enjoys feeling submissive. What I perceive to be different, is that your submission is something you actively pursue; your owner receives your submission. I 'receive' very little submission; much of my power dynamic requires active, aggressive, and consistent domination on my part.

[/font]


I see both dom and sub, owner and slave, as having power especially when the relationship is consensual but even when I study historical slavery I see that slaves do have power. Probably because of my history background and my own personal history, I never say that I am in a power exchange relationship or that I exercise power over or even from my slave. I have authority in our relationship.

My having authority requires us both to recognize it, for me to exercise it, and for him to respect. If any one of those things cease then we have ceased to be in an consensual owner-slave dynamic. I could try and use physical, emotional or psychological means to exercise power over him but that wouldn't be authority anymore, simply power and I'd then open myself up to social authorities around us whom could easily harm me and my family.

Currently I'm reading a book by James C. Scott called "Domination and the Arts of Resistance: Hidden Transcripts" -- not really related to anything but I'm very impressed by this book so far and I'm half way through it. In the briefest summary it talks about power dynamics and how much effort is required on both sides to maintain it and how tenuous it always is.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: How Much Control Does A Dominant Really Have? - 11/29/2007 6:15:58 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Only if they're willing to be controlled.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to sammiebabygirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
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