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vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 12:39:37 PM   
matanzas


Posts: 5
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Yep..    nice guy fell in love with a woman who turns out to be a definite submissive. Inflicting pain and using abusive language goes against everything I have ever believed. I am open-minded and love this woman very much. Dont know if I should walk away, or try to give her what she craves. Dont know how to try. Any advice?
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 12:42:36 PM   
igobacktoblack


Posts: 10
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		I've had boyfriends in the past that I put into very similar situations. If you love each other that is enough of a reason NOT to walk away. Beyond that, you may be suprised how fun it can be ;) Just because she may or may not be incredibly involved in the whole lifestyle (I am not, doesnt mean I dont love it) doesnt mean shes not the girl you love - only advice I can say is dont burn bridges out of being unsure, seems pretty rash.


PS - There are a LOT of "nice guys" who are into kinky things in the bedroom!


< Message edited by igobacktoblack -- 11/29/2007 12:43:09 PM >

(in reply to matanzas)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 1:02:32 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		masochism (enjoying the infliction of pain, physical and verbal) is not definitive of submission.
since YOU will be the one submitting to her desire for masochism, since you are not a sadist and desirous of a complimentary masochist, if you give her what she "craves"...does the idea of submission to her desires sound like something that will fulfill you?

(in reply to matanzas)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 1:08:55 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		My advice (which isn't worth much considering my past) is to talk to her. You need to figure out if you can get your desires and kinks to exist together, without leaving one of you frustrated. I've seen people in love, who couldn't get these desires (especially the deep ones) to coexist and they don't make it. Its not fair, but  its true. Love is NOT enough.

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 1:12:47 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		Nice as some value statement has nothing to do with it. Being nice to a submissive is just different to being nice to one who is not. Actually many experienced dominants struggle with that one as well. ;)

There is no easy/right or wrong answer.

You can try to give her what she needs and maybe learn to enjoy it or at least not hate it but in the end on some level there has to be an acceptance on your part coupled with not judging or resenting her for being this way. The odds are she probably has found something in you that she finds dominant. On her end though to me is a bigger issue. Not all submissives are the same and she needs to know what she wants or needs sorted out and can be realistic with you so both of you can work/compromise to a functioning solution if possible.

If she can get by with what you can do then it can work. If she wants to turn you into something that you are not then no effort will work. I wish you well.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to matanzas)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 1:13:33 PM   
goodgirl08


Posts: 145
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline 		Well, do you WANT to give it to her?

(in reply to MidMichCowboy)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 1:19:08 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Is humiliation essential for her? Could you give spankings but not canings? Is there any place to compromise?

And is she craving the s & m more than she wants the control? Meaning would she be fine with just spankings as long as you were telling her what to do? Examples are: picking clothes or just panties/bras/lingeree; telling her what to make for dinner; pushing her down over arm/back of soda and taking her even when she's not particularly turned on; ordering her not to cum until you give permission.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to goodgirl08)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 1:20:54 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: matanzas

Yep..    nice guy fell in love with a woman who turns out to be a definite submissive. Inflicting pain and using abusive language goes against everything I have ever believed. I am open-minded and love this woman very much. Dont know if I should walk away, or try to give her what she craves. Dont know how to try. Any advice?


As pointed out submissive does not necessarily mean masochistic.  You might just be able to incorporate d/s into your life and have someone at your beck and call!  What does she want?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to matanzas)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 1:28:34 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		My original interest in S&M was, in the end, my desire to please a masochist I cared for.  In all of my relationships, I am incredibly empathetic.  I still don't enjoy pain just to make someone hurt; I enjoy giving pain, because I am free to exert an incredible amount of power; a feeling I actually share with the masochist.  I was also brought up never to hit, never to yell, and always be 'nice.'

As others have said, you have to do what you enjoy.  If you love this woman, I'd say try spanking her; just once.  See how you feel doing it (once you get past the initial embarrassment and shyness.) 

Good luck,

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 2:44:22 PM   
matanzas


Posts: 5
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		I appreciate all the replys here. This is all very new to me, but I have an open mind,and I am willing to experiment. I am not at all opposed to anything associated with this lifestyle, but I am not sure its a "turn on" for me.

At this point, our sex has been mostly conventional, but she has let me know that she enjoys a litlle pain, and she would like for me to treat her like a slave, or a prostitute. She also says that she needs someone to "control her".

I was also a baffled the first time that we had sex, that she liked to bite me, didnt want me to kiss her, and didnt want any oral sex performed on her.

We have some great chemistry and deep feelings for each other, but I need advice as to where to go from here, because I feel that the sexual side is important to her.

(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 3:27:07 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Some kinky things we're just born that way.  Others, I think, are acquired taste.

I've always had fantasies about threesomes.  Ever since I imagined sex with one girl would be good, I imagined two girls would be great.  It's only been more recently that I've come to crave more unconventional interests, like branding a girl.  I dated one girl who liked to be choked.  I couldn't imagine doing that to someone I loved...until I tried it.  Since then, I've done it with every girl I've been involved with sexually; every single woman since I've tried it with, has absolutely loved it.

Go figure.

Listen to the things she likes, and if there's anything there that sounds interesting, give it a try.  If nothing's interesting, think about what you like, and tell her about them.  Submissives thrive from doing things that their partner likes!

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to matanzas)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 3:32:09 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: matanzas

I appreciate all the replys here. This is all very new to me, but I have an open mind,and I am willing to experiment. I am not at all opposed to anything associated with this lifestyle, but I am not sure its a "turn on" for me.

At this point, our sex has been mostly conventional, but she has let me know that she enjoys a litlle pain, and she would like for me to treat her like a slave, or a prostitute. She also says that she needs someone to "control her".

I was also a baffled the first time that we had sex, that she liked to bite me, didnt want me to kiss her, and didnt want any oral sex performed on her.

We have some great chemistry and deep feelings for each other, but I need advice as to where to go from here, because I feel that the sexual side is important to her.


It's not clear, but the beauty of the "treating her like a slave or prostitute" thing is she may be service oriented which just means you get to order her to please you whatever way you want.  As Stephan pointed out, if a sub is service oriented, it's not really about paticular activites as much as it is his desires.  Try it.  If you like to perform oral sex on her, command her to be quiet and let you do it, same with kissing.  Make it more about you and start from there and see how it goes.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to matanzas)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 3:53:25 PM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		It requires a lot of talking and understanding outsided the bedroom to grow into play.  There's a really good book called Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns that will answer many of your questions.  My other suggestion is to find some local munches to go to.  There's all kinds of power exchange groups where people get together to discuss this kind of relationship/ play and can help you learn what it's really about.

Most beginners tend to stumble along in the bedroom instead of talking about what is fun before going to the bedroom.  That's a mistake IMO.   Learn what it is she likes, explain to her what interests you, and then go play.  Great ways to do this include writing erotic stories for the other to read then discuss, reading erotic books then underlining or highlighting the parts that excite you so your partner can read the story after you, and watching kinky porn movies while talking about what aspects are fun.

You're venturing into an area which you knew existing, but I promise that you will be amazed at how pervasive it is and how fun doing it right really is.  There are pleasures you can provide a true masochist and submissive that vanilla's can't even imagine.  A great encounter can send the bottom and/or the top into a hypnotic pleasure that can't be described, only experienced. 

Go for it dude!!!!  It's a lot of fun and you can give GREAT pleasure to her (which many switches such as myelf totally understand), but do your homework and do the homework with her.

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/29/2007 4:43:35 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		And have faith. When I first heard about all this, my reaction was (and this is an exact quote); "Are you FUCKING LOONEY?!?!?!?!"

However, the more I thought about it, the more I tried to figure what the draw was. The more I did that, the more I found it peaked my interest - even though I couldn't imagine being turned on by pain. And then... when I did get the opportunity to try what I'd been hearing/reading/thinking about, I discovered, much to my amazement, that I must be looney too, cause whatever I read was just right.. and I've been doing this ever since.

Take your time. Learn about what you're attempting and give it a try.

Also, one of my main ways of looking at things has always been "I'm going to try something three times.. once to get past any nervousness or past views of what I'm doing... A second time to see if I like it.. and a third time just to be sure."  I gave myself permission to move whatever that was over to a hard limit list if I found I didn't like what I was doing.  I have to say that this way of doing things has given me the freedom I needed to be sure that I was ok with something. It has also surprised me to discover that not one thing that I've tried three times has EVER made its way onto a hard limit list...

Like you, I had an open mind.

I also kind of like that in discovering this, I am choosing what I enjoy doing rather than doing it cause mom and dad et all said "that's the way things should be." I'm discovering what things should be - TO ME. I love that whole idea...it's been like taking blinders off of everything in my life.

Give it a shot. Try each thing you do three different times (not all the same night). Contemplate what you've done, how it made you feel and whether or not you can do it again. Remember that no one gets to judge you for your ability or inability to do anything when it comes to relationships and that each of you - both her and you - have the right to be as you choose to be...whether that's vanilla or D/s.

And then... enjoy the exploration. Think of it as a grand adventure and the opportunity to discover things about yourself that you never had the chance to do before.

Have fun.

juliet

(in reply to Muttling)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/30/2007 9:31:41 AM   
matanzas


Posts: 5
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks Muttling. I ordered the book today.

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/30/2007 9:33:14 AM   
matanzas


Posts: 5
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		My next question would be: Do you think that a woman like this can be a good partner if I am looking for a long-term relationship?

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/30/2007 9:56:00 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Hello Matanzas
 
I do second 'screw the roses' - but much of it is written very tongue in cheek as well - so I would also recommend 'the loving dominant' and 'SM101' also.  Usually you can pick them up on amazon.
 
As to whether she would make a good partner in a LTR - that really is an individual thing.  If you are asking if LTR are possible with a masochist / bottom/ submissive then the answer is it is possible - there are lots of people around who are testement to that - but it really isn't down to the orientation but the individuals involved.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/30/2007 10:00:29 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		I have gone back to dating vanilla guys {don't look so shocked}, an I am very submissive when I am around the 'right' man or men; I have to feel 'protected' etc in order for that side to come out and for it to be safe. Over the last few weeks I have noticed that more and more men, who make comments under their breath, "don't make me tie you up," or "i want to spank that ass of yours;" are closet kinksters. All the better for me, they may not have a lot of experience, but at last they are open to the idea and if things don't work out, I will have opened their eyes a bit more. So far, the few men I have met for dinner or whatever and that topic came up, have been VERY receptive, they ask a LOT of questions and don't find it 'weird' but a turn on.  
 
Considering that I am looking for a partner to spend the rest of my life with, I would say we make VERY good partners, 'kink' isn't the factor, its just part of the person, liek how they dress or speak. 

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to matanzas)
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RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/30/2007 10:02:01 AM   
gorgeous1


Posts: 367
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: matanzas

My next question would be: Do you think that a woman like this can be a good partner if I am looking for a long-term relationship?



Hi and welcome to the forums!

I'll answer a couple of your questions. Let's work backwards, OK?

Can she be a good partner for you? Well, it depends. CAN you do this? Can you start out slow? This doesn't have to start out all hardcore. You can start out with maybe gently grasping her wrists and holding them over her head while you're making love. Try a silk scarf as a blindfold. Try silk scarves to bind her wrists, then run a feather up and down her body, or blindfold her and feed her yummy things like chocolate or cherries...doesn't that sound romantic to you? Wouldn't you just love to have the woman you love as your sweet little captive, all tied up and ready to be kissed all over? You say she doesn't want to be kissed or be pleased orally...you could tie her up and say to her, "Now that you're helpless and can't move, I'm going to have my way with you, and I'm going to...(insert YOUR fantasy here)".

I think if you both are already having sex, and she has expressed her desires, starting out with an innocuous experience like a little light bondage and NO abusive language or pain, you can see if it arouses you. If it doesn't it won't ruin future sexual experiences for you, but if you aren't turned on by this experience, I would say let her go, because as a submissive who has "always known" I wanted this, I have to say that this is something I HAVE to have. I waited to marry until I found the man who wanted to and HAD to give it to me.

This isn't something that can be turned off. It's hardwired in some of us. For others, it may be an acquired taste. You might be able to learn how to like it, but I don't think she can "un-learn" this desire.

Best of luck to you.

_____________________________

Wife/property of CapnSpankins...and loving every minute of it! Visit my juicy blog http://www.kinkycrafts.info/gorgeous-blog/gblog.php for updates on my slave training!

(in reply to matanzas)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: vanilla guy loves submissive woman - 11/30/2007 10:07:48 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I will also echo the opinion that sometimes love is not enough. If you have differening sexual proclivities, sometimes it can be worked on, sometimes it never coaleses.

I married the archetypal "nice guy" who never tried BDSM. He was willing to try it for me because he fell in love with me. For 10 years we tried, he could not fulfill me in how I needed to be fulfilled. We went to a couples therapist because we really loved each other and were great companions. The therapist confirmed that you cannot force someone to be what you want or need, despite their greatest efforts, sometimes it works, sometimes not.

I ended up leaving my marriage.

I wish you the best of luck.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 11/30/2007 10:08:19 AM >

(in reply to RCdc)
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