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Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/29/2007 6:59:10 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

I know I've seen this come up in threads before, but I can't find what I'm looking for in older threads...... so I'm starting this one.

A little background in condensed form.....
My new dominant and I have known each other since July. We met at the local BDSM club, and although He has been attending play parties for over a year, I am His first non-casual play partner. We started out with some "lighter" play, such as spanking, slapping, hair pulling, biting and rough sex. Recently He started using a belt, paddle and flogger on me.

The relationship started as a friendship and grew into much more, with Him surprisingly professing His love for me a few weeks ago. But in that same week He confessed that He was having some feelings of guilt about "hurting" someone He loves. He says He enjoys giving me what I need, but He still feels guilt for making me cry, etc...

He and I communicate on a level that I have never known before, so that is not an issue. We will be talking about this more, and working through it.... but I'm just wondering if other tops/dominants have experienced anything like this, and how you and your sub/slave/bottom dealt with it?

Thanks!

< Message edited by BRNaughtyAngel -- 11/29/2007 7:52:16 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/29/2007 7:36:59 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Oh yes all over the place. I find the best thing to do is become friends with another couple where one of them is a sadist and see them operate together closely. Seeing how it works with someone else can take away the stigma.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 2

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/29/2007 7:51:35 PM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Oh yes all over the place. I find the best thing to do is become friends with another couple where one of them is a sadist and see them operate together closely. Seeing how it works with someone else can take away the stigma.

Thanks LA! I hadn't thought of that, but it might just help Him. I think the majority of the people we see play at the club are more casual play partners, so He's not used to seeing a couple play together who also share a "loving relationship" with each other.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/29/2007 10:01:46 PM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

Its funny you say this, its something I have thought about more than a little

I used to feel badly about some of the things that I did.

Intellectually I could understand that I was doing things that she enjoyed, and needed and that in many ways I was actually doing her a service in that I could inflict the things that I did in a manner that was sadistic, but still caring.

But emotionally, internally I was having problems with the duality of being a man of decency and integrity, and enjoying whipping someone past tears.

Once I was talking to a friend who was a pro domme about it and she said she had the same experience, how lonely she felt after a session sometimes and how hard the come down could be for her. She brought up a valid point.

She mentioned that we all talk about the submissive, that if we are good at what we do we are serious about making sure that they get the aftercare they need. Who gives aftercare to the dommes?

She said that one of her best slaves would go to her after a scene and not only than her, but tell her how good of a person she was and how wonderful she was to him.

Its important stuff to realize that sometimes dominants need reinforcing too.

My feedback, go to him afterwards, let him know how great he allows you to feel, what a wonderful experience it is for you. Stroke him and remind him that he's not a bad person for what he does to/with you, that you love him for doing it.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 4

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/29/2007 10:11:55 PM

DarkDaddyZ

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline

Oh I've seen this movie before and was in a few sequels. I had similar experiences to your new top and when I fell in love with my submissive, WE noticed that my style of play got lighter as well as my desire for more intense and dark play but not with her (after I was in love). Luckily our local community had many people in M/s relationships and after expressing our "funk" regarding this and a good support system we were able to get back to basics.

And let me tell you, (after getting back to basics) being a sadist with a masochist in love was the best of curse of my life! Sounds like a Prince song doesn't it?

Anyways, this is about you and not me and I think LA hit it on the nose.

Good luck and congrats!
Z-

< Message edited by DarkDaddyZ -- 11/29/2007 10:18:57 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 5

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/29/2007 11:26:33 PM

BrokenSaint

Posts: 301
Joined: 10/30/2007
Status: offline

I think it's pretty normal to feel that way at first. In most sets of cultural values in the west the general precept is that pain is a bad thing. People should not enjoy it, you should not hurt people you love, etc. That sort of thing. It's a reality tunnel, and one we are generally thrust into without even knowing it is present. We are taught pain cannot be enjoyed, thus we feel bad for causing it.

Then POW!, a situation comes along which shakes up our worldview to that point. It can leave one feeling confused and guilty. Nothing is wrong with us, our reality tunnel was just too narrow. Just needs a bit of adjustment, which can be an arduous psychological task, but is most certainly not insurmountable. I'll also point out if you're interested in the particulars of reality tunnels, psychology, philosophy, etc. Read Robert Anton Wilson's prometheus rising. Excellent, amazing, wonderful book, by one of the most awesome people ever to walk the earth. But I digress.

I cannot stress enough taking the suggestions found above and talking to others. who have gone through this sort of thing already, about it. Coming from a psych background a social support network is invaluable avoiding all sorts of nasty mental breakdowns. It certainly can't hurt in any case of confusion or guilt. Also echoing the statements of others, give them alot of support during this.

*I'm also not quite sure why it listed this post as a reply to DarkDaddyZ, as it was directed buttonwise toward the op...weird. Firefox has been kind of screwy lately though.*

< Message edited by BrokenSaint -- 11/29/2007 11:27:49 PM >

(in reply to DarkDaddyZ)

Post #: 6

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 2:32:59 AM

Jayxkes

Posts: 138
Joined: 7/8/2004
Status: offline

I'll echo what has been said above. I think it is quite common to go through such feelings at some stage.
Talking with others was a help for me, so hopefully will also be helpful to you and yours.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 7

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 4:22:01 AM

MzMinx

Posts: 277
Joined: 12/26/2005
Status: offline

*smiles* My play gets more extreme the more I delight in, and am emotionaly attached to a submissive ... the more I feel they are mine and the more I feel their attraction and emotional bonding to me the more I want to push them and use them.... indeed its so much sweeter and more intense because the emotional conections are there ... that I have no deisre to play with casual intercations

But I did learn that it was 'OK' to do what I desire with one I love, long before I actually explored being a dominant ... I dont know if the fact I had my first explorations within bdsm as a submissive made a difference but I certainly knew that I was well loved by my dominant... or that I have had a variety of friends who have deeply loveing relationships that contain all sorts of extremes and its a lovely to be able to share times wit them ... but I do think LA's advice is great ...seeing and being around others who express love, care.. delight and sadism .. is a good idea

good luck ... and I think with time he will work through his feelings ... the good thing is, he was willing to share them with you and not go all domly silent

(in reply to Jayxkes)

Post #: 8

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 6:11:34 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

Thank you all so much! I really appreciate the personal experiences and advice.

I know He and I will work through this, but I also knew I could find those who have 'been there, done that' here to provide some words of wisdom!

(in reply to MzMinx)

Post #: 9

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 6:41:36 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

So far, the advice has been really good.

I happen to think a lot of Us go through this stage. Crossing that point between casual play and the day comes when the person on the other end means a bit more. Suddenly, the feelings you have aren't the same as when you started out and you have to cope with that. It's not really as easy as it sounds. Some of it can actually be quite confusing.

One of the things that has helped Me in this area, along with the aftercare immediately following a scene, is follow-up. It works for Me to go back a few days later, when the endorphins aren't necessarily still so ramped up, and talk about the positives with a level head. (I ask you to understand this from My perspective, as I somewhat linger in head space for quite a while after a scene. Sometimes into the following day if it was especially good.) It's a very good reinforcement for Me to hear that the new feelings that have come into this, haven't changed the way he wants to play. That he still enjoys the same level of pain and is happy that I'm the person inflicting it on him. In O/our case, I happen to think it's even helping U/us to grow. Having that affirmation gives Me a solid reassuarnce that he wants to go further and I don't have to hold back. In fact, it's because I care about him that I would hope to take him just as high as he would like to go.

I do realize that there may be a different spin on things because the genders in your dynamic are the reverse of Mine, but I hope this has been helpful in some way.

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 10

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 7:03:22 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I do realize that there may be a different spin on things because the genders in your dynamic are the reverse of Mine, but I hope this has been helpful in some way.

Thank you LadyPact, and yes your post was very helpful.

He and I have talked about this some, and the advice you and the others have given will definitely help.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 11

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 7:46:24 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

We went through this as well. Master is a hard core sadist and he's super, super protective of me. The two instincts conflicted pretty hard. Communication was the key with us. We just kept talking it through.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 12

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 7:56:38 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

Like others have said I have been through this and to me is very typical.

On my end as a slave I spent a great time in explaining how my mind works during this time. He had heard similar things when we started out but some constant reminders that I was not wired vanilla and backing off was hurting me not showing love to me.

I would despite my always reluctance to ask him for more of those things during this period and was always sure that after the fact of play whether immediate or hours or longer spent extra energy being positive and as supportive as I could so he could connect a used hard slave is a good and happy slave.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 13

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 11:39:58 AM

SensibleSam

Posts: 77
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

I imagine this a stage for most Dom/Masters who are mentally healthy. There are some men who actually hate women and who - when they beat a woman - are angry and malicious. However most "good" Doms aren't subject to such negative feelings. It sounds as if your Dom is what I'm calling here a good normal Dom.

Personally I love to beat women. I typically smile at such times and often laugh (OK, its probably a wicked laugh.). The point is I'm not in a rage. For me and for her its a celebration. It's very stimulating. If I don't care for the woman in question that's fine, but if I do care about her so much the better. I strike just as hard.

I can understand that if you got into the beating women activity with complete strangers you might think that you were being "mean and nasty". Some guys seem to like to affect "mean and nasty". However a Dom's public character may be sweet and compassionate while his Dom persona is altogether different. This doesn't mean he's inauthentic. It just means he's complex.

Gay men have a classic punch line - "it doesn't mean I'm a bad person". Dom/Master men should adopt a similar attitude. Just because you like to tie up women, humiliate and beat them doesn't mean you are a bad guy. It doesn't mean you are incapable of love.

Don't worry about your guy. He will figure all this out in the normal course of events.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 14

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 11:51:01 AM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Its funny you say this, its something I have thought about more than a little

I used to feel badly about some of the things that I did.

Intellectually I could understand that I was doing things that she enjoyed, and needed and that in many ways I was actually doing her a service in that I could inflict the things that I did in a manner that was sadistic, but still caring.

But emotionally, internally I was having problems with the duality of being a man of decency and integrity, and enjoying whipping someone past tears.

Once I was talking to a friend who was a pro domme about it and she said she had the same experience, how lonely she felt after a session sometimes and how hard the come down could be for her. She brought up a valid point.

She mentioned that we all talk about the submissive, that if we are good at what we do we are serious about making sure that they get the aftercare they need. Who gives aftercare to the dommes?

She said that one of her best slaves would go to her after a scene and not only than her, but tell her how good of a person she was and how wonderful she was to him.

Its important stuff to realize that sometimes dominants need reinforcing too.

My feedback, go to him afterwards, let him know how great he allows you to feel, what a wonderful experience it is for you. Stroke him and remind him that he's not a bad person for what he does to/with you, that you love him for doing it.

Great post Kana. Until a few years ago, I had always took it for granted that Dom/mes just enjoyed what they did. However, having started switching I realized how wrong I was on many things. I think at times we all struggle with the "dark side" of ourselves, whether it be recieving pain/humiliation, etc. or inflicting it. The most important thing I have found that helps to overcome hesitation on the part of the Dom/me is communication. While it may seem somewhat backwards to have the top be the one to impose limits, I always try to keep the frame of mind that as their pleasure is the focus in my relationships, they certainly don't have to go anywhere they don't desirej or aren't comfortable with. I have found, however, saying I don't know if I can do this anymore and actually meaning it in the heat of the moment are two different things. As with all things we do, time, taking it slow and massive amounts of communication and support can really make the difference.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 15

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 11:51:14 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

As I have responded to this question in the past, I "hurt" my slave BECAUSE I love her.

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 16

RE: Love, Guilt and the Dominant/Top - 11/30/2007 12:08:56 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Yup, that has the ring of truth. It's understandable for a dom to start feeling reluctant about hurting a sub that he loves, but if he thinks it through, he'll have to remember the reason why she was attracted to him in the first place. That can't ever disappear. Of course you can ADD components to a relationship, but if the original reason why you were attracted to each other doesn't survive, the relationship is going to break down. So as Kana says, it's a great idea for you, as the sub, to remind him of how he makes you feel when he does those very things that are starting to make him feel guilty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

My feedback, go to him afterwards, let him know how great he allows you to feel, what a wonderful experience it is for you. Stroke him and remind him that he's not a bad person for what he does to/with you, that you love him for doing it.

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 17

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