Mistress or Domme

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LadyPact -> Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 11:53:19 AM)
Ok, another little thing that has been going through My head lately. This applies to My own situation and is not meant to be a reflection on anyone else. In this last bit of time, I've been tugged a bit more and more between the definitions of Dominant and Mistress. In My eyes, there is a definite difference between the two. (Disclaimer here..... I'm not saying one is better than the other, just different. Do what works for you.) In My case, it's particularly relevant, because I have been both. In My current dynamic, I consider Myself a Dominant. In the past, I've been Mistress to My first slave and to My pet. I find those influences are crossing over into My current dynamic. Almost a bit of some and a dash of the other kind of thing. For example, in My tag line, I very specifically call My boy "owned". It also comes up in the way I direct the dynamic. I see Myself pulling toward certain things which have basis in leather traditions, even though My boy is a sub. Expecting certain directives to be followed, etc. So, My question is this: For those of you who have cetain definitions of the lifestyle, do you ever feel that one crosses into another? Do you have a slave that you sometimes treat what would more accurately be described as a sub? Do you have parts of you that are Mistress, yet better explained as Dominant? As a Dominant, do you ever hear the call of being a Mistress, in the way your dynamic is formed? I'll even go so far as to ask, if you are a Top, do you feel that leather Mistress inside of you? I'm very curious as to the responses.

MsIncontrol -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 12:48:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact For those of you who have certain definitions of the lifestyle, do you ever feel that one crosses into another? Do you have a slave that you sometimes treat what would more accurately be described as a sub? Do you have parts of you that are Mistress, yet better explained as Dominant? As a Dominant, do you ever hear the call of being a Mistress, in the way your dynamic is formed? I'll even go so far as to ask, if you are a Top, do you feel that leather Mistress inside of you? Yes, the line blur quites frequently for me as well and I wear many hats depending on the day/player/my own internal feelings. I tend to feel the mistress inside, the need to own slaves the D/s or M/s dynamic is definitely in my heart. The leather lifestyle is the one I grew up in and feel most comfortable with. But I am also very dominant in all aspects of my life..not just my BDSM part. My husband, while I also consider him owned, is more a submissive than a slave but at the same time I am the mistress of this household, controlling all aspects of his life from what clothes he wears to financial decisions. He calls me Mistress, and only he calls me Mistress. When I play with someone at a party I am a Dominant and Top at times. There are people I play with who submit to me and others who will bottom. During a scene a submissive may call me mistress...but I am not his Mistress..if that makes any sense at all? Basically, I completely understand your lack of being able to put a label on yourself and I find myself throwing all the labels out the window at times and just being myself...regardless of what someone calls me or what I choose to call myself.

LadyPact -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 3:32:46 PM)
Thank you, MsInControl. I'm glad there was someone out there who could understand at least a part of what I was reaching for.

MystressDream -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 3:52:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Thank you, MsInControl. I'm glad there was someone out there who could understand at least a part of what I was reaching for. I have come back to this thread repeatedly, but, have had a hard time coming up with an answer that won't get me "flamed". <grin> That being said, let me try to pass on my opinions.... Just keep in mind, they are only MY opinions. Lables in this lifestyle drive me nuts. However, I will attempt to voice my opinions of some of them. Topping, to me, means the BDSM activities. They, for me, may have nothing to do with the lifestyle per se. *I believe that M/s or D/s is who and what we are. BDSM are just activities some of us enjoy. But, I accept that I am in the minority with that opinion.* As far as whether I am a Dominant to someone vs a Mistress.... Well, hang on to your hats for this one. <chuckle> I have never required ANYONE to call me "Mistress". I believe the titles of Mistress and Master are earned, not demanded. I don't think they have any bearing on ownership or self declared status. I have had slaves and submissives, and even other Dominants call me "Mistress", but, they have done so on their own. If they respect me enough to address me with that title, it is flattering, and I am honored by it. My screen name is MystressDream... the Myst part came from a profile I created 14 years ago when I created the name. It dealt with "seeing through the mysteries of our sexuality to discover the core that drives us." If it is casual play with someone I am not in any kind of relationship with, it is Topping on my part. If it is a friendship or serious relationship situation, even to include ownership, then I am the Dominant. But, as I said, "Mistress" is not something I would ever claim to be on my own. *Now you will understand my hesitancy in responding to this post. <smile>*

thetammyjo -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 4:33:46 PM)
To me, dominant is something I can be by myself, it's a personality and scene interest description. It can also be a role when one is in a DS relationship. However, I never accept the word "Mistress" unless I actually own a person, meaning they have taken on the role of my slave. I believe that Mistress is a relationship title only therefore I must be in a relationship (a specific one that is MS as opposed to DS) in order to be Mistress.

Shawn1066 -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 5:25:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MystressDream *I believe that M/s or D/s is who and what we are. BDSM are just activities some of us enjoy. But, I accept that I am in the minority with that opinion.* I agree with this. After all, My Owner and I still have our dynamic when we're doing something as seemingly vanilla as walking in the park, or making a photo album, or discussing politics, or even watching TV. Those moments are just as important, probably -more- important, than anything sadomasochistic or bondage related we might do.

MistressDolly -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 5:30:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo To me, dominant is something I can be by myself, it's a personality and scene interest description. It can also be a role when one is in a DS relationship. However, I never accept the word "Mistress" unless I actually own a person, meaning they have taken on the role of my slave. I believe that Mistress is a relationship title only therefore I must be in a relationship (a specific one that is MS as opposed to DS) in order to be Mistress. I agree.

ShaktiSama -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 5:39:34 PM)
Normally I would say that "mistress" is a word that connotes a relationship. There are other relationship words that might apply to me, too--"girlfriend", "wife", "boss", "Mommy", whatever--but it wouldn't be appropriate for anyone to call me those things if we didn't have the appropriate relationship. Domme is just what I am. Regardless of who is talking, or whether I'm in a relationship or a scene at the moment. I assume that submissives are always submissive too, regardless of whether they happen to be submitting at that particular time, and that switches are always switches, yadda yadda... Anyway, it's not a big deal. I don't particularly like to be called "mistress" by someone that I'm not in a relationship with, but I don't take offense if none was intended, or jump all over someone who starts their first email "hello mistress". If I talk to them long enough, I'll probably make a gentle correction down the road. S'all good.

expedio1 -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 6:08:02 PM)
Ironically, I agree with what the consensus seems to be here... that "Mistress" implies a close relationship in which One has earned the trust and respect of another, and that it should be used only in that way... but I behave to the contrary simply because I haven't been able to find a better way. The problem is that, for Me (and please note that I speak only for Myself), it feels as if I'm being disrespected when subs call Me by My name. It's very much like the old fashioned feeling that young people should call their elders "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" rather than "Bob and Betty". It is/was one's own offspring, not others, who are/were allowed to call adults by more casual terms of endearment, such as Daddy and Mommy. So in My case, I ask all subs who communicate with Me to call Me either Ma'am or Mistress, but only because I don't know of any other respectful titles that are relatively generic, yet not overly awkward in everyday conversation. When I finally make the slave/sub Mine and I become his (or her) Mistress and not just a generic one, that person is then allowed to call me Mistress Edi if he or she cares to do so. (Some have preferred to go on calling Me "Ma'am" or "Mistress"... or, in the case of one who was originally from Europe, "Madame"... but they always know that they have the option of using My name if they wish to do so.) Others who are not in a specific D/s or M/s relationship with Me are strongly discouraged from doing so. It's too personal for them. I wish I knew of a better way because I do agree that this way is not ideal, but so far it's the best I've been able to do.

ItalianSMistress -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 6:44:30 PM)
Personally I am kinda picky about this. I dont like it if anyone calls Me Mistress, unless they have been collared by Me. And its an even worse sin for someone elses collared slave to call another Mistress. I never call Myself or another Lady, a Mistress, I would call us Dommes. Mistress decribes the relationship between a slave and its Owner. I even state clearly in My profile that I will not respond to a message in which the sender calls Me Mistress. When I am speaking to a slave that is not collared by Me, they just call Me Ma'am, or, of course, Governess. Even if I am training that slave.

MistressGayle -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 6:58:51 PM)
Good topic to bring up :) I am a Dominant/Domme'/Mistress/Owner. I own slaves, not subs. To Me, it's "situation appropriate".... if we are home or in a totally lifestyle situation, it's "Mistress".... if we are in a vanilla/public situation, it's "Ma'am." I feel that if someone is addressing Me as "Mistress" and not owned by Me, it is out of respect, and I have no problem with that. Respect is good. I try to keep this lifestyle as simple as possible, and it seems to be working. Mistress Gayle

expedio1 -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 9:10:15 PM)
Governess is a pretty good suggestion. I'm going to give that one some thought.

aidan -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 9:29:51 PM)
Now this is a topic I will watch with great interest, because I'm always looking to learn more about leather culture, and because I was not aware of the division in the use of these nouns. Seriously, I had no idea that the idea of a difference between Dominant and Mistress and Domme was so prevelant. I always thought of them as an orientation (Dominant) and then synonymous descriptions of a form of that orientation with differences based on intimacy of relationship (Mistress and Domme). Fascinating stuff. adjusts his Linguophile hat and sits back to watch

Boondoggle -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 9:33:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama Domme is just what I am. Regardless of who is talking, or whether I'm in a relationship or a scene at the moment. I assume that submissives are always submissive too, regardless of whether they happen to be submitting at that particular time, and that switches are always switches, yadda yadda... This is just my opinion, but I respectfully, yet strongly disagree with this ideology. I feel that outside of a scene or a previously defined relationship, submissives are people, dominants are people, and switches I view as people who sometimes like to be dominant and sometimes like to be submissive, not some sort of in-between or 'other.' I have seen many times (and it has happened to me) where a self-identified Dom assumes that because someone submits to one person, she should naturally submit to the Dom, regardless of her consent. I have also seen other times when the roles were reversed and the sub tried to non-consensually submit to a Dom. Clearly, these situations are inappropriate and unacceptable. In my experience, they usually arise out of the assumptions mentioned above. I think a much, much better philosophy is to treat people like people unless or until you know just how they desire to be treated. As for labeling dominant women, I generally address women I've just met as Miss or Ma'am, at least in a D/s context. I also like to ask them how they prefer to be addressed rather attempt to guess. From there, it completely depends on the dynamic of the relationship and our preferences.

Stormysister -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 10:09:26 PM)
What a lovely topic. My preference is Domina or Ma'am. Yes, Ma'am...No, Ma'am...was drilled into me as a little girl to show respect and it has stuck like glue. Yeah, time in the military supported that script as well. Ms. is preferred over Miss because of my age. Personally I cannot stand the word Mistress. *No matter what role we play in life or in a scene, everyone should be called with respect until determined exactly how they desire to be address.*

ShaktiSama -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 10:22:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Boondoggle This is just my opinion, but I respectfully, yet strongly disagree with this ideology. Omygod! A sub male contradicted me! I must assert myself or they'll take away my domme-itude and ship me off to Gor! whip-crack [Cartman]RESPECT MY AUTHORI' TAI!!![/Cartman] [:D] More seriously: I'm not discussing an ideology. I'm discussing personal identity and self-knowledge. I don't have to have the spoon in my mouth to know what my favorite flavor is...or what makes me want to hurl. See what I'm saying? There's nothing about my self-knowledge as a domme that makes me or anyone else less of a "person". The two states are not at all contradictory, and there's nothing about my desires as a dominant woman that obligates any other person to fulfill them if they don't wanna. Kind of like...oh, I dunno...the desires of your average heterosexual man? [:)] And to clarify, before you dredge up any more of these "gasp! she tried to Domme me just because I was Sub!" horror stories--ugh. Not so much. Being secure in your identity leads to the exact opposite behavior, in my experience. I'm comfortable with my domme-itude. I've had years to get used to myself at this point. I don't need to stamp my wittle foot and throw a tantrum because complete strangers aren't calling me "mistress" and carrying on like I'm Louis XIV. It's possible to be a self-aware domme or sub without being a rude, childish, boorish, pushy loser. No one has to submit to me if they don't wanna; my domme-itude will continue to exist and I'll be just as down with my bad self. [:)] I don't need a sub to define me, and the reverse is also true: a man or woman is not less of a Twue Sub if the mere thought of me doesn't make them wet themselves. 'Course, if they knew me...they would respect my authori-tai... [:D]

Najakcharmer -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 10:34:51 PM)
Dislike'em both. I identify best with a phrase from Jack London - as the "dominant primordial beast." Been there done that got the leather t-shirt with a lot of the more "traditional" roles, and while they're fine now and then as a play costume, they aren't who I am. When I'm doing the Mistress thing I feel like I'm in drag, and it's not real and not me. When I let the gay male Daddy Sir top in me come out to play, it's still only a single facet of a much more complex whole, and I'm STILL in drag. The only time it's not just a costumed role for me is when I drop all the drag and all the masks, which is basically everything that has to do with human gender roles, and just be myself. The me that emerges really does not fit into human ideas of gender, and in particular does not fit into traditional BDSM roles or imagery.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/5/2007 11:50:14 PM)
My own experience with titles, while it doesn't specifically deal with Dominant and Mistress, is relevant to the question. I gave up the title of Mistress (I used to be MistressFireBDSM) and took on the title of Master. The difference is NOT gender based and is subtle, if only to me. I wrote an essay-turned-blog-entry about it some time ago. I won't post it here, as it's a page and a half long, but if someone would like to read it, just send me a message on the other side. What it boils down to is that there is some subtle difference between the two for me, much like there is some subtle genetic difference between and orange and a grapefruit. Yet, that subtle difference makes all the difference in the world. Master Fire

catleggs -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/6/2007 1:11:12 AM)
Titles faded in time with me. I call myself 'Cat' .. and when asked in a social or semi social situation, (club, munch, party, etc.) I will ask to be called just that. In session, however, I let the individual call me the title that works best for their mindset ...and when I am asked, I will instruct them to call me 'Ma'am'. Cat

MaamJay -> RE: Mistress or Domme (12/6/2007 1:59:37 AM)
I think there is a distinction between the mindset of a Domme over a sub ... and the Owner of a slave. And I think that's more what You are driving at LadyPact, and I think that having had a slave, it would be hard to "go back" in a sense to a sub. You are used to having that greater authority, the rights of Ownership, rather than the control of a Domme. I think the most important thing is for You and littleclip to keep the lines of communication open ... are there any aspects for example, where he might see You as being too intrusive? I hope I've got the story right ... is he married? In which case, Your Ownership is necessarily tempered by his other commitments, despite the fact that, again if I recall rightly, this is an open thing and his wife knows and accepts this. As to the title of Mistress ... when I first entered the lifestyle I adopted it as I liked the word ... then I found out more about its significance and decided to shift to the approach of "call Me Ma'am until you've earned the right and I've earned the right for you to call Me Mistress". In other words the shift to Mistress has to be made from both sides. That's with someone who is working towards being Mine. Subs in general call Me Jay. However, I accept that each of us has words we do/don't like ... I absolutely hate "Miss" (has to do with teaching kids for years!) just as my Master hates "Sir"! It's important to settle on words we do like and are comfortable with and make them clear to those with whom we interact. That said, there was another Mistress's sub who called Me Mistress ... when I queried it, he said that for him it was a mark of his respect for Me and that it was fine with his Mistress. When they played, She often asked Me to watch him while she went to get him some water or whatever. I always had a lovely warm fuzzy feeling when he called Me Mistress :-) Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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