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negotiations - 12/5/2007 1:34:06 PM   
girlivy


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		Hello, and thank you for taking the time to read this, As i am new into the "scene", but certinaly not new to submission (just did not know there was a place for me), I have a question about negotiations and sceneing.
The question is this "How to do it?!", I am usuially one who just obeys, and pleases, also I rarely ask anyone for anything, but would go out of my way to provide what needs they may have. Thanks again!
ivy

_____________________________

AUTHENTIC SPIRITUAL GROWTH NEVER COMES FROM EXPERIENCES THAT THE EGO CAN PREDICT OR CONTROL.
OUR SPIRIT HAS ITS OWN AGENDA: OUR DESTINY.
Be yourself, everyone else is taken!
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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 1:45:31 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		well, in scenes as opposed to relations all is really arms lenght negtiations.

it is as easy as you saying, I am gonna suck your dick like this is the last supper, and for that, I would like you to say 'good girl' and smile......

whatever, just say it.

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 1:48:57 PM   
girlivy


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, in scenes as opposed to relations all is really arms lenght negtiations.

it is as easy as you saying, I am gonna suck your dick like this is the last supper, and for that, I would like you to say 'good girl' and smile......

whatever, just say it.

Ron 


Only last supper?!! That sounds like breakfast and lunch too!... Just found how to do a scearch with assorted topics here on the forums! Yay!  killing time at work i am!  ivy giggles and thinks "if they only knew!"

_____________________________

AUTHENTIC SPIRITUAL GROWTH NEVER COMES FROM EXPERIENCES THAT THE EGO CAN PREDICT OR CONTROL.
OUR SPIRIT HAS ITS OWN AGENDA: OUR DESTINY.
Be yourself, everyone else is taken!

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 1:56:54 PM   
girlivy


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		Ron, as far as proper protocol goes, is there a certin way of "just saying it please?"

_____________________________

AUTHENTIC SPIRITUAL GROWTH NEVER COMES FROM EXPERIENCES THAT THE EGO CAN PREDICT OR CONTROL.
OUR SPIRIT HAS ITS OWN AGENDA: OUR DESTINY.
Be yourself, everyone else is taken!

(in reply to girlivy)
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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 2:00:47 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		well, not necessarily(no real formal protocol), but act like you are one of the white shirted ones at your place.

Politely.(if it pleases you....yadda yadda yadda)...and in the way of business conversation.......because that is what it is, kinda a business transaction......you are not in it for the eye color when you go to the club.

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 2:11:30 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		Figure out what you need.  For me, that has taken a lot of time (and I don't do scenes--just relationships of sorts).  I'm kind of (very) bifurcated.  I need to figure out the parameters before I start to surrender because they can push me much farther than I'd be comfortable with in that space.

And, this is a pet peeve of mine, don't worry about 'gotchya' people--they, in my opinion, are more vocal in some forums (although not here, thankfully), but I've yet to encounter one of them in real life.  I used to freak out that if I left a single thing out of my limits, then it would be fair game.  A couple of idiots in our local group actually started arguing that a Dom could cut off a slave's ear, unless she had specifically limited that, and I spent a couple of years (before I'd actually ventured in these waters) trying to come up with every eventuality, scared I would have relinquished all to some man who would turn around and say "What do you mean you won't go to Guatemala without malaria meds--you didn't specify that in your original negotiations."  But I really think they were just sad men who were making up twue rules that very few would agree with.

Negotiations are about communication and saying "hey--I work best this way"--they will evolve over time.

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 2:23:14 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: girlivy
Yay!  killing time at work i am!  ivy giggles and thinks "if they only knew!"


If IT has keylogger programs installed, they do know and you could be risking your job.

Doing whatever they tell you only works if you know the other person well enough that they can read your body language in case it goes bad.

How to do it? Same way you had a job interview, assessments of performances etc, described the problem that brought you into the doctor's office. You sit down over coffee or a meal, not while naked, and say that you would love to play but what are his favorite things. And then you tell him yours. So if he lives for singletails and you're a bondage bottom who has no interests in sadism then you wish each other good luck. Just trade your three or five top things and see what matches up. And then do the things you both love.

In general though there are two ways to view negotiation of scenes; inclusion or exclusion. Inclusion means you're only willing to do the things you specifically mention and exclusion means you're up for anything you don't list. I'm an inclusive type, I feel safer knowing he won't obey the letter of the law but will break the spirit of it. And if I'm negotiating for the first play, I don't really know him well enough to be sure he won't do that.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 2:32:00 PM   
girlivy


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for the Great Advice!
ivy

_____________________________

AUTHENTIC SPIRITUAL GROWTH NEVER COMES FROM EXPERIENCES THAT THE EGO CAN PREDICT OR CONTROL.
OUR SPIRIT HAS ITS OWN AGENDA: OUR DESTINY.
Be yourself, everyone else is taken!

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 4:01:14 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I have used many formats for negotiation of "casual Scenes" One of my favorites is the tour of the toybox method.
Open up the tool kit and start pulling things out one at a time, watch their reaction ask them of the experiences with this or that tool.
Divide the tools into Yes, Maybe and OH HELL NO I'LL CALL THE COPS.
Discuss what things each person is looking for, see where the overlap is.
After that you know basicly where the safe area to play is and you can have a scene where the action is not exactly scripted, but is limited to play that is mutually enjoyable.


(in reply to girlivy)
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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 4:51:34 PM   
unravel


Posts: 90
Joined: 9/3/2007
Status: offline 		yep... as written above... if you deeply and intimately know what you want, and what your absolutely-no limits are, such self-awareness will help communicating such barriers to Your Dominant, and lessen a bit of the pushover factor to which i can relate.
Good luck,
unravel

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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 6:22:00 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		DOn't try and list out all the "no nos" try and establish where you EACH want to go, why you want to go there, health and other signals to be wary of AND especially what you will do after the scene is over.

If you use good judgement and sense, and honestly make sure this is someone who is on the same wavelength as you, it doesn't have to be a complicated process.

And it's ok to just say "No, I'm just not feeling it right now"

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 7:17:18 PM   
MystressDream


Posts: 345
Joined: 7/11/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

DOn't try and list out all the "no nos" try and establish where you EACH want to go, why you want to go there, health and other signals to be wary of AND especially what you will do after the scene is over.

If you use good judgement and sense, and honestly make sure this is someone who is on the same wavelength as you, it doesn't have to be a complicated process.

And it's ok to just say "No, I'm just not feeling it right now"


Very well said.  Excellent post and advice.

_____________________________

Knowledge and experience are wonderful things to share. When we stop asking questions, we might as well "hang it up".

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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 7:39:43 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline 		I have this major difficulty with negotiation--which is that tone is much more important to me than activities.  Anyone negotiate tone well?  How?

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to MystressDream)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 8:48:33 PM   
everhope


Posts: 2179
Joined: 8/19/2007
Status: offline 		i dislike negotiations. when i first started out in all this, i played casually in dungeons and  i had to learn to negotiate to some degree. i  played with Dominants that i had observed play a few times or men my friends introduced me to. i am a sensation slut and i like the unknowns in play, toys were not so much what i negotiated. my negotiations had more to do with taking care of my emotions during and after play.
in general, i have made my pussy off limits in casual play. i don't like to cum for a  Dominant where an emotional connection has not been established.that's just me. 
although, i have broken my own rule once or twice. 

nowadays, i don't casually play. i wouldn't describe spending time getting to know and understand a potential Master negotiating. by the time we get to the physical aspects negotiating will be a moot point.

everhope

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RE: negotiations - 12/5/2007 9:15:31 PM   
ocilla


Posts: 1764
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		this is a great thread, a very useful and practical topic.  Tone negotiation? - maybe roleplay language kinda like a director might use would work.  I actually wonder about this as a domme..Guess it starts with curiosity of what works and does not work for various folks and sometimes I am absolutely game to try something I've never thought up and sometimes I need to take a step back and try and wrap my head around what's been proposed....I find that one of the most power aspects of BDSM is learning more and more about myself quite frankly.  Since starting down this road I find that I am constantly suprising myself.

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Ocilla

Nature is not a place to visit. It is home.
~ Gary Snyder

It takes a kinky village...

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RE: negotiations - 12/6/2007 12:12:47 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Would you cut off a toe? If not, that would be a limit. Granted, that's an extreme thing, but it gives you an idea. Ask yourself what you AREN'T willing to do in order to please someone. It can be as mundane as wearing purple. Think of things that would harm you psychologically...perhaps you were raped once and so 'forced sex' would be a bad scene roleplay. Things like this.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

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RE: negotiations - 12/6/2007 3:26:23 AM   
girlygurl


Posts: 6973
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: in the palms of His hands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

it is as easy as you saying, I am gonna suck your dick like this is the last supper
whatever, just say it.

Ron 


Can I use that line Ron?    Sometimes I feel like I need new things to say ya know..... One can only say, "I want to feed on your cock for nourishment" so many times before it gets stale IMO.  I like to communicate in a way that will capture my Sirs attention, turn Him on, ect..... and I do believe me using that line will please Him hee hee

girly

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: negotiations - 12/6/2007 4:39:25 AM   
Dari


Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline 		Negotiations are most important, IMO, when you're playing with someone you don't know well.  If you're going to play with someone you do know well - then you've already been through the part where you talk about likes and dislikes, and potential traps.  Even so, the first few times you play with someone, you may want to remind them of things that would bring a total halt to activities. 

As far as tone goes, particularly if it's someone who's willing to do a little research and if you have the time (so - probably not at a party, for example), you may select a couple of short stories that have scenes that really just do it for you.  And then say something like - this is the kind of play that turns me on, not because I want to recreate the scenes, but these themes are really do it for me.  If you don't feel like you can communicate the tone, find stories written by people who can, and use those!

(in reply to girlygurl)
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RE: negotiations - 12/6/2007 9:38:33 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

DOn't try and list out all the "no nos" try and establish where you EACH want to go, why you want to go there, health and other signals to be wary of AND especially what you will do after the scene is over.

If you use good judgement and sense, and honestly make sure this is someone who is on the same wavelength as you, it doesn't have to be a complicated process.

And it's ok to just say "No, I'm just not feeling it right now"


What she said.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: negotiations - 12/6/2007 9:46:38 AM   
IamJustMe2C


Posts: 94
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline 		Mix a bit of Ron and Lucky together and you got it.

Hay there you go Ron you just got Lucky LOL

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Submission is a gift unlike any other. The one who can sculpt that gift in a graceful manner is a Master.

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