Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (Full Version)

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DarkDaddyZ -> Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/6/2007 4:29:01 PM)

There you go LA [:D]



TwiztdErotic -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede... (12/6/2007 4:42:46 PM)

I suppose that would depend on the wiring of said submissive. Some thrive under the structure a dom gives them and find their happiness through upholding responsibilities and performing as required. Others thrive on the attention. If a dominant comes to the rescue every time a submissive feigns helpless then that submissive may not be compelled to meet her responsibilities. Of course, there's many things that drive a person. In the end, I believe, it would come down to that particular submissive's internal wiring and the dominant on the other side of the leash.



kyraofMists -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/6/2007 4:51:43 PM)

Responsibilities to whom?

Responsibilities to others...

I do not make commitments to other people or activities without first obtaining his permission.  If it is a responsibility that he wants me to take on, then yes, I can be counted to uphold it barring emergencies that may take precedence.

Responsibilities to myself...

I am required to uphold my responsibilities to myself and my well-being.  He is not a rescuer and will allow me to fall flat on my face if I do not make an attempt to help myself first.

Knight's Kyra



Maya2001 -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede... (12/6/2007 5:23:41 PM)

I would say depends on the submissive, and what you mean by the question,  I for one am not intending to give up my responsibilities to my family, job, myself and my retirement goals to remain self sufficient, my pets  or  my business nor would I want the dom to take over my responsibilities



slavegirljoy -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/6/2007 5:25:21 PM)


Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede.....?
 
i don't see why not.  If someone is a responsible person, they will act responsibly, whether they are submissive or Dominant or both or neither.  i don't see the connection between being submissive and being responsible or not.  In my opinion, the two are separate and distinct characteristics any one might or might not have to any varying degree. 
 
my Master took ownership of me, knowing and accepting the responsibilities i already had and He expects me to continue to meet those responsibilities.  i'm not going to take on a new responsibility, without getting my Master's okay first.  If He tells me that i can do something, i'm going to do it, barring some emergency or unforeseen event that keeps me from it.  my Master won't tolerate me being irresponsible and won't allow me to make a promise or commitment that i can't keep.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David



Grlwithboy -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede... (12/6/2007 5:29:58 PM)

I can't answer this but as an owner - if he's made a commitment I'm not pleased with, that's my problem with HIM not the other person, and will be addressed after he fulfills it. I generally get more mileage out of owning a reliable slave than a slave I can derail at any time for any reason - not without exception, but this is generally it.




charmdpetKeira -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede... (12/6/2007 6:43:47 PM)

quote:

Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede.


I think that depends on the given persons prospective of what “responsibility” is.

I don’t see how the status of Dom or sub makes one more or less responsible. It would seem, since Doms delegate responsibilities to their subs; when a Dom chooses to intercede, the responsibly of the sub has changed not their degree of being responsible.

If a Dom is delegating responsibilities in such a manner that causes a conflict of interest, in areas the sub is responsible for outside of the Dom, I would think; said Dom is the one not being responsible.

k



wisteriaV -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede... (12/6/2007 7:57:09 PM)

I take responsibilty for my actions and accept the consequences of them. Master may not be pleased over over joyed with something I may have said or done, but he never, ever takes away my responsibility of them.



IrishMist -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/6/2007 9:25:19 PM)

The question is kind of vague. [&:]



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/6/2007 9:54:42 PM)

You rock- my main question is, say a sub says "Yes, I'll definitely come Saturday to volunteer at your event."

The sub doesn't show up.

She calls the next day and says "Sorry, my master didn't feel up to going and decided I needed to stay home."

Were you wrong to expect her to come in the first place, knowing she had a master who could/would do such a thing?  Or is the sub just an untrustworthy person except to her master?

When I become friends with a slave, I do so knowing that their masters COULD and MAY break or mold that friendship at any point in any way from their perspective.  I either choose to remain friends with them on those terms or not.  It's easy for me because I used to be that slave- even my boyfriends knew that if my master called, all other plans were off. 

Does that mean I really couldn't be trusted on?  I do NOT expect my slave friends to hold anything we say in confidence from their master- does that mean the slave is not trustworthy to hold confidences?  I think it's more accepting their place and how we fit well together.

And does this tie into how a master and slave reflect on eachother, to pull from anthoer thread?  If a slave chooses a master who sucks in some way and shows some flaws in judgement, will that prevent you from becoming close, knowing that those flaws mean there could be problems in your relationship as well if the master chose to interfere?



juliaoceania -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/6/2007 10:59:55 PM)

quote:

a sub says "Yes, I'll definitely come Saturday to volunteer at your event."

The sub doesn't show up.

She calls the next day and says "Sorry, my master didn't feel up to going and decided I needed to stay home."

Were you wrong to expect her to come in the first place, knowing she had a master who could/would do such a thing?  Or is the sub just an untrustworthy person except to her master?


I would not tell someone I would definitely help them and then flake, blaming it on my dom. If my dom wanted me to be a flake he could find one of those on any street corner, he would not need me. If the submissive is agreeing to do things that history has repeatedly shown her that her dominant will not let her do, she should know better.

quote:

Does that mean I really couldn't be trusted on?  I do NOT expect my slave friends to hold anything we say in confidence from their master- does that mean the slave is not trustworthy to hold confidences?  I think it's more accepting their place and how we fit well together.

And does this tie into how a master and slave reflect on eachother, to pull from anthoer thread?  If a slave chooses a master who sucks in some way and shows some flaws in judgement, will that prevent you from becoming close, knowing that those flaws mean there could be problems in your relationship as well if the master chose to interfere?



I do not usually feel the need to tell my Daddy every discussion I have with everyone, and while I do tell him of the interactions that I have on this board, I do not tell him of confidences that have no bearing on our relationship.

I feel that if I allow him to control my friendships (especially my vanilla friendships) or my relationships with my family, I am allowing him to dominate those friendships.. and that to me is wrong. I would not pick someone that acted this way.



laurell3 -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/6/2007 11:07:21 PM)

Actually I do keep lifestyle confidences from my partner which he knows and accepts.  I don't tell them his and don't tell him theirs.  It's really their decision to chose to reveal it.

If I had to flake on something planned, I wouldn't just not show up, I would get ahold of the person and explain the circumstances.  I wouldn't flake merely bc he chose to stay home and I felt I needed to stay home is alot different than he told me I couldn't go.



Muttling -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/7/2007 12:54:51 AM)

Wow!!!!  I really like this conversation and am interested in hearing what all have to say.




My response is more of questions than answers.   I hope all will reflect upon my responses and tell me what their reflections mean to them.....



FIRST Response:   What IS responsibility?    Is this a promise?  Is it a pledge?  Is it ethics?  Is it staying true to one's self?  Is it staying true to your relationship with your Master?   What is it??????


SECOND Response: How does one define priorities of responsibility?    At some point along the way, there is bound to be two conflictng responsibilities.   How do you determine which responsibility takes priority and how does a submissive present their choices of priority to the Master?






Please note, these are questions of ethics.   You must be FIRST and FOREMOST true to yourself.   If being true to yourself means being true to your Master then you are a submissive and you have many priorities to balance.   A good Master will help you to find that balance and encourage or punish you for hitting/ missing the mark.



eyesopened -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/7/2007 1:53:58 AM)

In LA's senario, i would not have made such a committment without my Master's prior approval.  Should my Master change His mind, i would beg permission to let the person know as far as possible in advance that i would not be able to honor that commitment.  If He was completely out of character and told me no, i could not contact that person, i would end up just not showing up.  my responsibility is to my Master, not the other person.  Considering the offered senario but instead it was a close family member who was suddenly hospitalized, i would not be able to honor the committment and it would have nothing to do with my being a slave.   Stuff happens.

Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities?  The short answer it that it depends on the integrity of the persons involved, not their lifestyle.  People without integrity aren't likely to suddenly become honorable just because they entered into a D/s or M/s relationship.   One of the most attractive traits of my Master is His absolute integrity and sense of honor. 



RCdc -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/7/2007 3:26:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

You rock- my main question is, say a sub says "Yes, I'll definitely come Saturday to volunteer at your event."

The sub doesn't show up.

She calls the next day and says "Sorry, my master didn't feel up to going and decided I needed to stay home."

Were you wrong to expect her to come in the first place, knowing she had a master who could/would do such a thing?  Or is the sub just an untrustworthy person except to her master?


No the submissive isn't untrustworthy.  I wouldn't say it was 'wrong' to - but it I would find it highly suspect of anyone who places make expectations on anyone who you do not own, or do not answer to - it's that simple.
 
In my relationships - I make it quite clear that although I may volunteer or assist people out that two things in my life take presidence - Darcy and my family.  If something happens to them and I cannot make it then really - for everyone else - suck it up.

The only thing I would add is that I wouldn't just 'not show up' because to me that is not polite.  I will endeavour to forewarn people if I think I cannot make what I have 'promised' or at least contact as soon as I can - not simple apologise 'next time I see them'.  And I don't apologise anyway - because to me that would be insincere.  If I had to miss something because of those I love then I'm not really 'sorry' am I?  It's just the way life is sometimes.
 
As for confidences, everything that people tell me privately has the provision on it that Darcy will/may also hear it.  Of course I am not going to bother him with anything that he may find trivial, but I do know(onthewhole) what he may want to know of.  Anything that may touch our lives in any negative (or positive) way, and that includes me being concerned over someones welfare, then yes, he will be told because he is the person at the end of the day who has the authority in our relationship.   The minute you keep secrets or confidences from someone, well, then I may as well end the relationship.
 
Flaws are part of a persons charachter.  To some people having a beard is a 'flaw'.  Judgement is so subjective.  I choose the whole person and not based on one or two things.  You take the positive with the negative and you learn to adapt - you compromise - but you don't simply settle.  It's not my 'role' in life to make everyone happy and please all the people all of the time.  Only Darcy.
 
the.dark.



slavegirljoy -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/7/2007 4:16:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

You rock- my main question is, say a sub says "Yes, I'll definitely come Saturday to volunteer at your event."

The sub doesn't show up.

She calls the next day and says "Sorry, my master didn't feel up to going and decided I needed to stay home."

Were you wrong to expect her to come in the first place, knowing she had a master who could/would do such a thing?  Or is the sub just an untrustworthy person except to her master?
You are not wrong to expect someone to do what they say they are going to do, unless this is a repeat behavior or, unless you know that this person is someone who is answerable to another and needs to get the okay from them, first.   This sort of thing, someone volunteering and then backing out of it, happens all the time.  It's not a BDSM or Master/slave thing.  The person could just as easily have said, "Sorry, my husband didn't feel up to going and decided I needed to stay home."  or "Sorry, my wife didn't feel up to going and decided I needed to stay home."   In my opinion, the responsible thing for the slave to have done would be to have expressed their interest and willingness to volunteer, with the caveat, "Of course, i will have to check with my Master (wife, husband, etc.) to make sure that i will be able to.  He or she might have something else planned for that day that i'm not aware of."

quote:

When I become friends with a slave, I do so knowing that their masters COULD and MAY break or mold that friendship at any point in any way from their perspective.  I either choose to remain friends with them on those terms or not.  It's easy for me because I used to be that slave- even my boyfriends knew that if my master called, all other plans were off.

Does that mean I really couldn't be trusted on?  I do NOT expect my slave friends to hold anything we say in confidence from their master- does that mean the slave is not trustworthy to hold confidences?  I think it's more accepting their place and how we fit well together.
Based on your past experiences, i can see why you would be hesitant to trust this sort of person.  For myself, i treat each person on an individual basis and i try not to make assumptions about someone based on my experience with someone else.  i tend to give each person the benefit of doubt and take them at their word that they will do what they say, until and if they prove otherwise.  If i know that they are answerable to another, i will ask them if they need to check with their S.O. before making a commitment to volunteer.

quote:

And does this tie into how a master and slave reflect on eachother, to pull from anthoer thread?  If a slave chooses a master who sucks in some way and shows some flaws in judgement, will that prevent you from becoming close, knowing that those flaws mean there could be problems in your relationship as well if the master chose to interfere?
i still consider this sort of behavior to be a direct reflection on the person i'm dealing with.  How do you even know that it is the person's Master who is actually keeping them from fulfilling their commitment.  Maybe the slave didn't check with their Master, before volunteering, and didn't even tell their Master that they had volunteered and they just made up that excuse to get out of their obligation.  Anyone can make any kind of excuse for getting out of something they volunteered to do.  ""Sorry, my dog wasn't feeling well and i had to stay home." "Sorry, my mom called and i needed to take her to get her blood pressure medicine."   As i said in my earlier post on this thread, some people are responsible and some people aren't.  That aspect of a person's character has no bearing, in my opinion, on whether they are submissive or not.  There are responsible and irresponsible people and some are submissive and some are Dominant and some are both and some are neither.   slave joyOwned property of Master David



Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/7/2007 4:19:58 AM)

If this is whole question "Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... "
 
They damn well better be, in my book.  If not then what is the point in training anybody to do anything?



IrishMist -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/7/2007 4:49:35 AM)

quote:

You rock- my main question is, say a sub says "Yes, I'll definitely come Saturday to volunteer at your event."

The sub doesn't show up.

She calls the next day and says "Sorry, my master didn't feel up to going and decided I needed to stay home."

Were you wrong to expect her to come in the first place, knowing she had a master who could/would do such a thing?  Or is the sub just an untrustworthy person except to her master?

Quite honestly; I would not place blame on the submissive; I would place it on the Master.

Submissive asks permission to come to the event and volunteer; Master gives permission; Submissives says yes, I'll be there. Master changes his mind because he suddenly does not want to go; Submissive does not go.

Of course, my answer could change with a bit more information...Did the Master tell the submissive to go without him? Or did he say WE are not going? If the first; then I would expect the submissive to show up. The second; then no.



slaveluci -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/7/2007 4:59:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
You rock- my main question is, say a sub says "Yes, I'll definitely come Saturday to volunteer at your event."

The sub doesn't show up.

She calls the next day and says "Sorry, my master didn't feel up to going and decided I needed to stay home."

If I had said I would "definitely" be anywhere for something, I would make damn sure beforehand that (barring some major disaster) that I could and would be.  Once I had established that I could "definitely" commit myself and had done so, I wouldn't back out.  First of all, Master wouldn't want me to break my word on a whim.  He doesn't do that sort of thing and He surely doesn't want me - His property - to do so.  Secondly, it is not a requirement that He go everywhere I do.  If He didn't feel up to going and I had made a prior commitment, He would expect me to keep it and He just wouldn't attend.  After all, He hadn't promised He would attend.  In this scenario, only I would have done so.  Therefore, He would have me attend without Him.  It's simple to find solutions really.  Being unreliable and not keeping one's word - Dom or sub - sucks.  Neither of us are going to be found guilty of it..............luci





ghitaPVH -> RE: Can a submissive really be counted on to uphold responsibilities when their dom can intercede..... (12/7/2007 5:30:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

You rock- my main question is, say a sub says "Yes, I'll definitely come Saturday to volunteer at your event."

The sub doesn't show up.

She calls the next day and says "Sorry, my master didn't feel up to going and decided I needed to stay home."

Were you wrong to expect her to come in the first place, knowing she had a master who could/would do such a thing?  Or is the sub just an untrustworthy person except to her master?

When I become friends with a slave, I do so knowing that their masters COULD and MAY break or mold that friendship at any point in any way from their perspective.  I either choose to remain friends with them on those terms or not.  It's easy for me because I used to be that slave- even my boyfriends knew that if my master called, all other plans were off. 

Does that mean I really couldn't be trusted on?  I do NOT expect my slave friends to hold anything we say in confidence from their master- does that mean the slave is not trustworthy to hold confidences?  I think it's more accepting their place and how we fit well together.

And does this tie into how a master and slave reflect on eachother, to pull from anthoer thread?  If a slave chooses a master who sucks in some way and shows some flaws in judgement, will that prevent you from becoming close, knowing that those flaws mean there could be problems in your relationship as well if the master chose to interfere?


Ok, LAs version of the question makes more sense than the title did...I was pondering till I read down further.

This is a major issue with us, and its something Ive had to relearn how to handle and Im still not great at it after 5 years of being with P. I am really really bad at volunteering or making plans. And one of P's main things for me is well...I cant do that. Say the oldest UMs cub scout leader asks me to do something. I cant say yes or no, at all..ever. Say my mom calls and asks if I can meet her for lunch, I cant answer her. Over time, people have gotten used to me saying, "I dont know Ill have to ask P first". In fact my mom has stopped asking me, half the time she either sends me an email, knowing Ill answer her when I get the answer from P, or people will just call him directly. Over and over Ive gotten myself in alot of trouble over the years committing to something only to have my plans changed by P. In fact I lost a HUGE amount of friends over it a few years ago. Which in truth, I dont personally think it was that big of a deal and if they chose to alienate me over the fact that I couldnt do something because P and M both needed me somewhere else then they were the childish ones not me..but thats besides the point. After that situation blew up the way it did, I had 5 Doms come to me and say..."well you shouldnt have told them you'd do it (even though I swear what I told them was Id do it if I could), you should have said to ask P about it".

I think it aggravates alot of people, either that or makes me appear dumb. But if thats the way P wants me to answer things thats how I do it. I just flat out dont give definate answers to anything anymore. I say "I dont know" a whole lot. Ive learned that if I dont make commitments to someone, I cant get in trouble for breaking them. My family and close friends have learned to work around it, they understand that I wont make a decision without talking to P about it first. And if they dont understnad they either learn how to deal with it or they decide to not be friends anymore.

Do I feel I can be counted on? Yea. I do. Just no one knows it cause I never commit to anything cause Im terrified P is gonna change plans without telling me..which  he does all the time. ~shrugs~ not complaining, thats just the way things are.

ghita~



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