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RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/8/2007 10:19:31 PM

FangsNfeet

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Just on the observation of life alone, I'll conclude that everything has a beginning and an end.

Earth will die one day. The sun will go supernava and die one day. Time erases most things and causes new ones to be born.

There is a circle of life and it has a recycling method.

When it comes Big Bang, here is my thought. For the most part we've figured out the laws of gravity. We've also made the discovery of black holes. It would seem to be inevitable that all matter will sooner or later be pulled back to one dense super molecule ready to explode once more.

Both Science and God both seem to say that there's a beginning, an end, and a rebirth. I find it safe to say that I belive that there was a beginning, there will be an end, and that there's a chance for rebirth in one form or another.

Yesterday already happened. Tomorrow may never come. All we can do is live now.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to ThinkingKitten)

Post #: 21

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/8/2007 10:21:40 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

I'll conclude that everything has a beginning and an end.

i will add to that "in any given state".

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 22

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/8/2007 11:38:47 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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OK, you might know that I am possesed of (or by) a high intelligence. In thinking about these things though one must defer to a lower demoninator, in other words, try to put it in laymen's terms. Which really does bring up the question, just what is a layman ? Just start another thread.

The first step in understanding things bigger than one's self is to be able to mentally step outside of their own existence. Let me put it this way, if you were God and decided that you wanted to have,,,,,,us, what would you do ? Well there is a standard opertating theory for this, and it has worked for millions of species on this planet and who knows where else.

Provide the proper environment and materials, generally some sort of life will sprout. Will it become greedy, nasty and nihilistic like our form ? We do not know.

For me there is no religion, I know what God really is. God is the universe, and I do believe that yes, the universe is sentient and concious. As such I see that some things alot of people see as being impossible are possible. I very rarely dismiss any ideas completely.

So the laws of nature are the laws of life, and governments disguise this law, replacing it with their own law. In time, under such rule, people do not thrive, especially when the governors do not have the best intersts of the governed in mind.

Survival of the fittest, and might makes right, these are forces of nature. When I advocate abortion and euthenasia I am only echoing the laws of nature and urging others to abide by them, and this is no joke with me. I really mean it even if it would mean my own death.

But this theory, my name and personna would be gone. I would join some type of life force where all of our minds work together. Perhaps to set the stage for existence, or perhaps this is all pacification for a guy who is getting close to 50 and knows it is coming.

OK, sorry about the semi-hijack, back to the OT. There is one other thing, Earth created one day, some more things created the next day, that is what the Bible says right ? Well, how could the Earth be created in one day when a day is one rotation of that which has not yet been created ? God had all the time he wanted.

Christians, Jews, Muslims, all, think of this. What if your God has a God ? Do you think when you walk in the front doors of the Whitehouse you go directly to the Oval Office ? If you think that I got oceanfront property in Iowa this time, and some timeshares in Telluride Colorado. Also if you're interested, a potato farm in Mexico.

Think of it this way (if you can). The entire universe in which we live is a being. We are components of that being. Get the idea ? We are to it as the cells in our own bodies are to us. They are generally unaware of our existence, they live to just,,,, live, that's it.

The overpopulation of the world is something I see as akin to an MRSA colonization. Buddy of mine had to have a couple removed, it was not fun. My Dad says humans are actually a disease of this planet.

Now before anybody starts going "Hey MF I am a human", think about this. Dad is 69 now, but he was younger when he said it, but he made sense. Think about this my friends, it is hard but you can do it. Think of how this planet would be if human life had never developed.

Look at us, we destroy everything. The worst animals to have around, alligators, sharks, whatever, they only destroy what they need to to eat. We need SUVs an HDTVs.

And look at most of us, all ascramble because if what ? Jesus wasn't born anywhere near Dec 25th. There is so much science that disproves deity it is ridiculous.

But if you have that just about innate belief, when you can't see reason, that is actually a form of indoctrination. Then they can get you to buy your kids all kinds of shit they do not need and you can't afford maybe.

Adopting a theory of a higher power beyond the higher power is what I see. I see nothing else that could make any sense. Do you ?

T

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 23

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/8/2007 11:50:09 PM

MasDom

Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
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I can actually explain this....
Cause i,m a chaos theorist...>and insane<

See you cant see reality as point A, or B.
But in a whole reality is Actually Negativity, and positivity So at one point their was a negative plain of existence, Via nothingness as a fathomable negative energy, or dark matter.

Now that energy eventually stretched, or shifted for some reason or another, this I would imagine is negative energies common property, A need to absorb and stretch itself.
Once this energy hit a certain criteria it imploded and created energy dispersal, which then became plasmatics.
These plasmatics then became matter itself their by explaining the big bang..

So Nothingness equals negative matter, which at a certain point equals a form of matter, and this is the catalyst for itself.

>Like I said i,m crazy<

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 24

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/9/2007 12:09:36 AM

MasDom

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I bet I never get an award for it.

(in reply to MasDom)

Post #: 25

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/9/2007 3:40:37 AM

HaveRopeWillBind

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Joined: 7/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

If the entropy limit was reached and there was no more energy( actually it would all be perfectly distributed, not actually "run out" right?) everything would simply sit motionless and unchanging. It would take energy to draw it all into one mass, it logically seems.

But consider since time is not constant and is related to relative motion. In a universe with no relative motion at all what would happen to time? As you go faster, time slows down. So in a situation of absolute stasis wouldn't time speed up, to possibly infinitely high speeds? I wonder what would happen in such a situation? Or is that a BS thought?

Lucky,
When the entropy limit is reached the law of conservation of energy says that it would all be converted to mass not actually distributed. (Though one might suppose the mass would be distributed.) That mass would then be drawn together by gravitational attraction. (Which is not defined as energy since the nature of gravity is still largely unknown.) This would bring all the mass into a singularity over a period of time.

Yes, you are right that time does speed up as one approaches the zero end of the energy scale, much as it does at the infinite end of the scale. In the case of a collapsing universe it would also be affected by gravitational forces as the mass began to become more a singularity than distributed mass. Large gravitational forces can wildly affect time. This is one reason why the big bang theory and the intelligent design theory might actually be compatible with one another.

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 26

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/9/2007 6:16:51 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1523262697019013602

Hunter/Garcia

The wheel is turning....

Exactly...there is nothing new under the sun, cheesy fortune cookie lyrics and crappy guitar playing have all been done before.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 27

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/9/2007 11:22:00 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

Scientific theories:

Big bang theory: possible, but needs to explain why 90% of the universe's mass seems to be missing... also doesn't explain why the red shift is accelerating.

Steady state theory: also possible, (especially when combined with string theory) but again has problems with reproducable observations in mass/acceleration.

Occillating universe: (the "Oh, God, here we go again..." theory) not very likely, since there seems to be no mechanisim for the cycle to repeat. i.e. not enough mass to pull things back into the "big crunch" which the cycle requires.

Quantum soap bubble: this one fits the obervable phenomena, but doesn't explain the actual start of the universe... just the end, where the expansion of space itself causes a "pop" in matter/energy and it all just diffuses into nothingness again.

Religious beliefs:

Make something up, and hope everyone else believes it. If others have differing opinions, be willing to kill to defend yours. If science becomes popular, try to undermine it by teaching your religion as science. (This works especially well in states where stupid people cluster... like Kansas.)

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 28

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/9/2007 7:17:28 PM

MasDom

Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasDom

I can actually explain this....
Cause i,m a chaos theorist...>and insane<

See you cant see reality as point A, or B.
But in a whole reality is Actually Negativity, and positivity So at one point their was a negative plain of existence, Via nothingness as a fathomable negative energy, or dark matter.

Now that energy eventually stretched, or shifted for some reason or another, this I would imagine is negative energies common property, A need to absorb and stretch itself.
Once this energy hit a certain criteria it imploded and created energy dispersal, which then became plasmatics.
These plasmatics then became matter itself their by explaining the big bang..

So Nothingness equals negative matter, which at a certain point equals a form of matter, and this is the catalyst for itself.

>Like I said i,m crazy<

My theory oscillates.
However it also shows multiple possible dimensions before now, as matter becomes nothingness, and back again...

Any one going to take the time to read it?
Makes more sense then saying string, and time when their is no physical matter for them.
About the same thing though.

(in reply to MasDom)

Post #: 29

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/9/2007 9:07:34 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Religious beliefs:

Make something up, and hope everyone else believes it. If others have differing opinions, be willing to kill to defend yours. If science becomes popular, try to undermine it by teaching your religion as science. (This works especially well in states where stupid people cluster... like Kansas.)

Can it be possible that Gods or Devine Beings used Science to create everything?

So far, Science has not done much to disprove God. Instead, science has only helped up explain how God does it. In the beginning BANG! There was light. Technically speaking, man first came from particles made from the earth and elements.

At any rate, science is not Gods advisary. Rather than proving or disproving Gods existense, science is only showing us how it all happened and has predictions on what's to come.

Have you not seen a good magic trick before and wonder "How did that happen? How did he do that?"

It's the same with God. "Whoa! How did he make the light, and then the sea, and then the land, and then the skies, followed by life?"

Under Science, studies actually agree with Genises on the earths creation. First there was light, then water, then land, then the heavens, and then life in which lead to the existance of man.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 30

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/9/2007 9:28:27 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Religious beliefs:

Make something up, and hope everyone else believes it. If others have differing opinions, be willing to kill to defend yours. If science becomes popular, try to undermine it by teaching your religion as science. (This works especially well in states where stupid people cluster... like Kansas.)

Can it be possible that Gods or Devine Beings used Science to create everything?

So far, Science has not done much to disprove God. Instead, science has only helped up explain how God does it. In the beginning BANG! There was light. Technically speaking, man first came from particles made from the earth and elements.

At any rate, science is not Gods advisary. Rather than proving or disproving Gods existense, science is only showing us how it all happened and has predictions on what's to come.

Have you not seen a good magic trick before and wonder "How did that happen? How did he do that?"

It's the same with God. "Whoa! How did he make the light, and then the sea, and then the land, and then the skies, followed by life?"

Under Science, studies actually agree with Genises on the earths creation. First there was light, then water, then land, then the heavens, and then life in which lead to the existance of man.

Hi FangsNfeet

There are a lot of atheists on collarme and you are asking for an argument. I agree with you however. I believe science will never be able to explain creation...at it’s best it will just be the measure of it. These are two different concepts and not at odds with each other in the least.

Butch

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 31

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/9/2007 9:53:32 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There are a lot of atheists on collarme and you are asking for an argument. I agree with you however. I believe science will never be able to explain creation...at it’s best it will just be the measure of it. These are two different concepts and not at odds with each other in the least.

Butch

There are many Athiest who belive in evolution. Well, the bible already discribes that the earth and our universe was created through a series of evolutionary steps. So the majority of Christians and People of Other Religions and the majority of Atheist agree that evolution took place.

Me wanting an arugement? Nah. I'm only suggesting that science is pointing out a few magic tricks and will expose more later on.

Most atheistic scientist belive in energy. Well, an emense force of blinding energy comes to mind when I think of God. If there is a god, wouldn't it be made of some kind of energy or a massive force of something?

Call it nature, massive forces of kinetic energy, powers that be, or God. Call it as you see it but it all comes down to there being a Massive Force that created everthing we see it today and we're all connected one way or another. Most theories about religion and science both conclude there being a powerful and energetic force that started all this.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 32

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/9/2007 10:27:12 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

Once upon a time there was a man who sat upon a rock perplexed. Unable to fathom an answer he proclaimed "God knows". The question remains to this very day what it was that he seen in mind and labelled "God". --me

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

Post #: 33

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/10/2007 3:45:14 AM

MasDom

Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
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I am A god amoungst man!....

>Its more intellectual then a simple thought<

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 34

RE: Nothing and the G.U.N. - 12/10/2007 8:35:32 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Once upon a time there was a man who sat upon a rock perplexed. Unable to fathom an answer he proclaimed "God knows". The question remains to this very day what it was that he seen in mind and labelled "God". --me

So what came first, the chicken or the egg?

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 35

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