A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Waterboarding is Not Torture. (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Waterboarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:00:55 AM)

Over in the CIA destroys evidence thread, the following exchange happened...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1461307/mpage_3/tm.htm#
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
The word is "torture". If it's not torture, why haven't you and your family gone through it? That's right. Because it's torture.

And that you don't consider the loss of Habeas Corpus to be GRAVE damage says more about you than anything else.



It's not torture, farglebargle.



Sanity,

You say that waterboarding isn't torture.

Prove it.


You can voluntarily, and with fully informed consent, undergo the exact same protocols.

That would prove to us that your claim is correct, that waterboarding isn't torture. I think you would crack in less than 10 minutes, but if you didn't I'll pay up $500.00 to cover your airfare and expenses.

If you stand up, and prove your claim, there's no downside.

I suspect you can go on the Neocon lecture circuit and get First Class Airfare, stay in suites at the Marriott, ride in chauffered Cadillac and Lincoln Towncar limousines and receive a nice honorarium for sharing your story about how you finally proved to the Libtards that "It's not torture".

Now, please clearly state for the public record, if you accept or refuse the challenge to defend your words, with your actions.

If you are refusing the challenge, tell us all why are you refusing it?

You can alternately, honorably, retract your absurd claim that waterboarding isn't torture. We all understand that statements made in the heat of discussion might by hyperbolic in nature.

You're out nothing if you can cash the check you wrote with your claims. Given the lucrative financial opportunities recounting your story of how you proved us all wrong, I'm not seeing a downside.

IF you are right.

And can prove it.

The challenge is there -- Take it, or not. Your choice shows clearly your honor and integrity, or lack thereof.




pahunkboy -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Waterboarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:20:14 AM)

Why?  This entire board could agree 100% with you.... but it is the policy makers that call the shots.  You are holding the wrong feet to the fire.



mnottertail -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Waterboarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:25:28 AM)

If he accepts and flourishes, his new appellation should be SurferDude.

Ron



Sanity -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:34:45 AM)

If I did or didn't fly to New York for your bogus offer, if I did  or didn't submit to your personal idea of water boarding, which the whole notion is beyond ridiculous... it still wouldn't "prove" anything one way or the other except that perhaps we were both fools



FullCircle -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:43:34 AM)

Isn't waterboarding similar to surfing?



Daddysredhead -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:45:19 AM)

Files "waterboarding" under Watersports, just for those who are into edge play.  (LOL)



FullCircle -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:51:30 AM)

Am I also the only one that thinks Chinese water torture would actually be quite relaxing?[8|]



Sanity -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:52:28 AM)

I keep trying to tell farglebargle - I don't swing that way!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

Files "waterboarding" under Watersports, just for those who are into edge play.  (LOL)



FullCircle -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:52:44 AM)

I dunno maybe it's because our school always had leaks in the roof.[:D]



popeye1250 -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 8:55:50 AM)

Oh Jeese! The CIA guys all have college degrees. They're all pusseys who were afraid to join the military. Not "all" maybe but most of them. Think Valerie Plame, Plume or whatever the fuck her name was.
They all think they're "James Bond."
It's just a "secret" extension of the State Dept. and we all know how "rough and ready" those people are. (More college degrees!)
As I've said before we used to "waterboard" each other in the CG out at sea on "Hellnight."
And no, it wasn't "voluntary."
It was an initiation of sorts and to toughen up the new guys just like the Marines used to put medals on guys chests with the half inch long pins sticking out of them and pound them into their chests before the politically correct assholes in the Clinton years found out about it and were "aghast!"
And when I was in the Navy if two guys had a beef or didn't like each other the CPO would say, "Oh, you two don't get along eh?" "Well you're on the card for saturday night's smoker on the flight deck!"
You'd have to put the gloves on and go beat the crap out of each other while everyone else watched "cokin and smokin."
Some good fights!
You want torture? I mean REAL torture.
How about a Hillary Clinton "Telethon" with,..........BARBARA STREISAND singing!!!
Now that my friend is "CRUEL and MOST Unusual!



Daddysredhead -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 9:14:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I keep trying to tell farglebargle - I don't swing that way!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

Files "waterboarding" under Watersports, just for those who are into edge play.  (LOL)



giggles wildly



Real0ne -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 9:23:05 AM)



come on sanity accept the challenge and put your breath where your politics are!






Daddysredhead -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 9:25:25 AM)

(small hijack)

Go, Green Bay!!!



Politesub53 -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 9:31:11 AM)

I cant see the point of this thread. Everyone knows waterboarding is considered torture, even the American government. In 1947 they charged a Japanese officer with war crimes for using it on a US soldier and he got 15 years hard labour. An American officer received 10 years hard labour for using it on insuregnts, during the Spanish American war in 1901. So i dont think that it cant be seen not to be torture, even if it does bring results during questioning. Although confessions made under tortutre are inlikely to be the most reliable anyhow, as most people say what the interrogators want to hear, just to get the questioning to stop.

That said, even if you agree with him or not, Sanity has every right to an opinion. I respect his, and anyones, right to free speech, even if i vehemently disagree.



FullCircle -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 9:46:32 AM)

It’s nice to have all these arguments about whether or not certain things are torture but what you often are dealing with is plausible deniability. That is why nothing will ever reach the top in regards to this:
 
General A “If torture has occurred we will investigate it immediately and find a scapegoat to prosecute in a show trial”
 
Funny how only low ranking officers following orders only ever get prosecuted for such things. It usually a case of do what you need to but I don’t want to know about it.
 
So you can have these arguments about what is and isn’t torture but unless you have a transparent military, which will never happen, it’s a bit academic really as top officials can always claim they didn’t know about it.
 
Politesub has a good point about torture yielding bad results but when intelligence suggests that a bomb has been planted in a US city government officials will use any information to find it no matter how reliable it’s source.
 
So torture, yes it happens obviously because there is no smoke without fire.



FullCircle -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 9:47:36 AM)

Ooooo tiny text, I wasn't expecting that[:D]



luckydog1 -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 9:50:12 AM)

Polite sub the Japanese officer Asano was convicted of burning civilians held in POW camps, with cigarettes as well as beating them with a club and kicking them.  Not simply for waterboarding.



luckydog1 -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 9:51:25 AM)

Sanity hang in there, Farg has to vent somewhere.  He will get more smoke and calm down soon enough. 



Daddysredhead -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 9:52:39 AM)

This could just go all elementary like and the guys could just pull out their weenies and see who's bigger.



Sanity -> RE: A Public Challenge to Sanity on his claim that Water boarding is Not Torture. (12/9/2007 10:40:40 AM)

Go Seattle!

(Talk about torture... try making the Seahawks your favorite team since their inception...)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

(small hijack)

Go, Green Bay!!!



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