Disillusioned?

Disillusioned? (Full Version)

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sub4hire -> Disillusioned? (7/6/2004 3:28:16 PM)
Doug and I were sitting with another D/s couple yesterday chatting. Nothing major. However a couple we both mutually know came into the conversation. They are a Master/sub couple. A brief history first. The Dominant is about 20 years older than the submissive. He was not looking for a life partner. Just someone to play with from time to time. She was seeking a life partner. Anyway, they play. As he calls it he “fails” He had sex with her after the 4th or 5th session. He considers himself a failure because she crossed the border from play partner to something more serious. Regardless time marches on. I believe they are on their third year together at this point. Since then he sells his one home to purchase a home for her to live in. She pays rent to him. He still lives in his own home. He stays with her on average about one evening a week. He refers to himself as her Master. She refers to him as her Sir. They take trips together..etc..etc. The typical couple things we all do when in a relationship. She comes to me on a regular basis complaining he is not around for her enough. He goes out of town, she cannot call him. He doesn’t call her. For me this is frustrating. My answer is always the same. Talk to him. COMMUNICATE. Talking with our friends this past weekend. Could it be he has talked to her? She just doesn’t hear him? We know he still does not want a serious relationship. Although she speaks of marriage. If she is hearing what she wishes to hear, how do you get a person to actually hear what you are saying and comprehend it? What is the solution? Should she find someone else? (That is what I would do by the way.) Then again, I would also know it was mere play and was not going to go any further. Is it lust in the way of her not seeing clearly?

anthrosub -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/6/2004 3:40:42 PM)
It's entirely possible they have talked and one or both are in denial about their situation. It would seem to me that both are engaging in a relationship that is inherently unstable and a little unfair. He wants a play partner but is involved with someone who wants more while the opposite is true for her. If they don't face up to what they are doing, the relationship will likely continue until a crisis is reached, fueled by the avoidance of the situation at hand. Just my two cents. anthrosub

Estring -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/6/2004 3:44:08 PM)
I would bet that she does hear him, but has settled for what she can get. It may not be exactly what she wants, but for now it is enough. She is probably hoping that eventually things will change. It looks like he is giving her just enough to keep those hopes alive. Though she may complain, if she was really that unhappy, she would leave.

MistressDREAD -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/6/2004 5:45:12 PM)
The pictures Quite clear to Me she is NOT a part of His nuclier Being. she is set apart. she is a object just like the house He supplyed for her to be in. He likes to know kinda where she is at with out applying to much Personally to it. Hence His Own Home and Life totally seperate from her. she is a posession period and that is how He see's her. and by her following thru with what He set up she by her actions stated that acceptance. complaining after the fact is simply admitance to her mistake in how she read His actions. love+love=together love+use= apart simple as cherry pie!

MistressDREAD -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/6/2004 5:48:29 PM)
you know sub that it takes 2 or more to make a scene. If she doesent want His kind of scene anymore she needs to cut ALL the ties and look for sumthing else that will fit more into what she seeks. if she enjoys the attention, scening,security then she should say where she is and talk to Him letting Him know what she seeks and if it is not to be with Him she will continue to look for what she seeks while there. Im currious if there was a contract signed for all this action or is she one of those let Me treat this as a nilla thing and not apply any rules or protical to it?

feline -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/6/2004 5:58:50 PM)
It sounds to me like He is getting what he wants. Which isn't enough for her. They discussed it in the beginning. He was straight with her, from what you said. And if it hasn't really changed in 3 years, it's probably not going to. I feel she should move on. If she actually wants to be happy. Take care, [image]local://upfiles/17000/56EB60FCE490473C81213AB06C030843.gif[/image]

iwillserveu -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/7/2004 3:12:27 AM)
Feline is right, but I would want someone to shake this girl by the lapels and yell "wake up, stupid!" The Dom did everything that he is supposed to. He was honest. He even thinks all is hunky-dory. So much so that he made financial changes. She lied. (I know that sounds harsh, but what do you call saying you desire casual play when you really long for a commitment?) When she leaves this Dom, not "if", it is her fault for wasting his time. I know it will hurt her, but the honorable thing would be for her to get a replacement that can offer him what she said she could. Of course she might have a little voice inside of her saying she is a "tramp" unless he wants to marry her and she is just telling herself repeatedly. In the end, Gloria, your friend must make her own decision. As for the Master's "failure". Ever hear the expression "pillow talk"? It is not right, but I doubt you'll find a man on the planet who did not do or say something he wishes he could take back before or soon after sex. (Divorced guys may not have to think very hard.[:)])

Sinergy -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/7/2004 5:51:44 AM)
quote: Talking with our friends this past weekend. Could it be he has talked to her? The older and more geezerly I get, the more I realize that people generally hear the words I say and immediately change them to be what they want to hear. Case in point. I give 30 days notice to my landlord, showing that I will be moved out on the 10th of the following month. On the 9th of the month, I return from my 6th move of the day to find the house wide open, my landlord and a group of people wandering through the house I still live in. My landlord states that because he could not get in touch with me, he felt within his rights to come into the house I legally rented from him. I was a bit testy, and I responded that my letter was very specific (I would be out ON the 10th) and that I could have him brought up on charge of Breaking and Entering for entering the house I rented from him. True communication can break down if person A does not communicate, but it can also break down if person B refuses to listen to and process the words person A is saying. Sinergy

MrThorns -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/7/2004 6:46:34 AM)
This seems like another example of someone trying to change the way their partner lives. She was aware of what he wanted in the relationship, right? She consented to that. Now she wants to change the rules...she wants him to change. I wouldnt be surprised if she has talked to him about this...but feels that he "just doesnt understand"...or that he doesnt listen... If I disagree with a point of view or a course of action, its not because I dont understand it. She needs to decide what is more important. A life together with her Master, following the path she has given her and that she had agreed to.... or to move on so that she can get what she wants. ~Thorns

dixiedumpling -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/7/2004 7:01:57 AM)
This sort of thing happens all the time in all sorts of relationships. A woman gets involved with a married man. Hangs on for years hoping that he'll get a divorce and marry her. Never happens. Or if it does, she realizes what a mistake it was to finally get him. People have hopes and dreams. They want them to come true. And if substituting daydreams for reality does it for them, it's hard to show them where they're wrong. Ever hear the saying that women marry men hoping to change them and men marry women hoping they'll never change? She's just biding her time, hoping he'll change. Maybe he will. Maybe she'll be the one to see the light and leave him and maybe that will be when he realizes she was just what he needed. Lots of variables, but what it boils down to is that she has to make a choice. Even doing nothing is a choice.

Sinergy -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/7/2004 12:49:09 PM)
quote: This sort of thing happens all the time in all sorts of relationships. A woman gets involved with a married man. Hangs on for years hoping that he'll get a divorce and marry her. Never happens. Or if it does, she realizes what a mistake it was to finally get him. The way I see it, a person who is willing to have an affair on their partner makes me ask the question, when considering them as a partner, whether they will do the same thing to me when she and I are partners. There is more than one reason I am respectful of other people's relationships. She wants to be with me but is in a relationship, she needs to finish the one she is in first. Sinergy

sub4hire -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/8/2004 11:05:50 AM)
I realize their relationship is more than likely doomed. It's merely a matter of time. Although could he actually not know she feels this way? I'm blunt and honest I say it the way it is period. I heard rumors a while back. While at a munch I point blank asked. So I hear the two of you are getting married? His jaw almost dropped to the floor. She kept saying, "don't you remember we talked about it, Don't you remember?" Talking and doing are two different things, yep we all know this. Although he has to know well maybe he doesn't. Its just so insane, or well the word is'nt coming to me. I just can't imagine how they can carry on without communicating on the right level.

January -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/8/2004 1:39:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dixiedumpling This sort of thing happens all the time in all sorts of relationships. I agree. Dear Abby responds to problems of unmet expectations in couplehood all the time. And Abby would likely say just exactly what you did, dixie: you have to make a choice. It would be frustrating to be friends with this couple, though. Just listening to all the complaining and knowing a crisis is coming (that they seem to be blind to). January

topcat -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/9/2004 12:00:14 AM)
Midear 4hire- I dated her- more than once. the best example I often refer to as ' the mistress of the thin edge of the wedge'. she'd mirror whatever I said was what I wanted, with some internal subtext running:"well, I'll say that i Just want a casual relaitionship so I don't scare him off- he's just a little burned out on commitment, but when he sees how good I am to him, he'll come around- I know that deep inside he really does want more..." the notion that I actually DID want just a casual relationship seemed to never occur to her. That's why, when someone asks if I have been engaged, I have to answer in two parts- the times I knew about it, and the times that it was news to me. In all fairness, I think that this 'reality disfunction' is something unconcious most of the time- she's not being cold bloodily manipulitive. Stay Warm, Lawrence

stormiKnightBEAR -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/11/2004 10:24:08 AM)
well said and so true... be well, stormi

sub4hire -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/20/2004 6:08:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January It would be frustrating to be friends with this couple, though. Just listening to all the complaining and knowing a crisis is coming (that they seem to be blind to). January It is very frustrating. That's why I was curious and asked everyone here. To be so happily blind. I can just hope I never get like that in any facet of my life. She complains each and every time I see her. I can't call him. He is away..it goes on forever. I'm always thinking to myself, are we ever going to have a normal conversation?

Tigresss -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/20/2004 8:59:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sub4hire She complains each and every time I see her. sub4hire, I had a vanilla friend that was in a very similar situation (of her own doing) and she to complained to me every time we would talk and I made various attempts to discuss the situation with her but just as she was not hearing anything he said she was not hearing anything I said (go figure lol). Finally I got burn out on hearing her gripe, piss moan and complain and I just said to her point blank in a very calm cool manner... I have heard all your relationship complaints a million times and frankly I am burnt out on hearing about it. When you make the decision to stop complaining and start making the changes in your life that you are going to have to make to find happiness I will support you 100% but until then every time you start complaining I am going to walk away or hang up because life is what you make of it and I want my life as stress free as possible. She sat there in shock and silence for a few minutes and then she apologized to me for always dumping her problems on me and said that she knows that is something only she can change but... (she was about to list all her reasons why) at which point I stopped her and said I wasn't kidding and I got up and walked out. She didn't talk to me until one day out of the blue approx. 3 months later I got a phone call from her and she said "I left him 3 weeks ago and I just wanted to Thank You for not letting me hide from reality anymore." I said no problem so do you need anything for your new place? Thought I'd share Tigress

MzBerlin -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/20/2004 9:39:20 PM)
Hello, Y'all- Relationships like this are not uncommon. I have been in a relationship like this, where we each pretended it was something completely different from what it really was. Everyone saw it. People even commented on it, but we forged ahead because being alone together is sometimes better than being just plain alone. If you don't get that, read it again. Anyhoo- It's called NOT BEING REAL. It's kind of like Wendys, you CAN live on it, but you probably shouldn't. As Always- Berlin PS- Anthro, I always love your posts. They are so well-written.[&:]

Destinysskeins -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/20/2004 10:06:20 PM)
Greetings, my little two cents.... First of all, i agree that your friend does hope to change this Man to better suit her needs. Sounds funny, but most women have a tendency towards it - maybe it's the mother hen in us, who knows. Second of all, i believe that she does know what she is doing and that it will fail. Most likely, she's deciding to ignore these little twinges inside of her. Last of all, people fear what they don't know even if what they know hurts. she will continue on this path until the pain and turmoil it causes her so much grief that she cannot continue the charade any longer. Now, as for what role you should play... Be a supporting friend, not an enabler. Listen to her vent - vocalizing these worries & concerns is part of the way she will eventually work through this all...sometimes one has to listen to themselves talk in order to hear themselves. Now, i know this is a hard thing for you to do and there will be times when you simply cannot handle doing so. At these times either say straight out that you just don't have the energy/time/etc to listen or give another reason why you cannot talk. Most importantly, constantly stress to her that this relationship is not healthy for her - after she has finished ranting (she won't be able to hear it any other time and even if she does she'll blow it off as just her being upset at the time). So, in short...dig in for the long haul and hang on to your shorts! :D Well wishes to you and thank you for being such a caring friend to this girl.

LadyShoshin -> RE: Disillusioned? (7/21/2004 9:08:19 AM)
You have done all you can for this person, in Social Services we learned that when we care more about a person's well being than they do, step back. When she starts complaining calmly tell her that this is a conversation she should be having with (Name of her Master) and change the subject. Nothing said by friends or family is going to change her behaviour. Only when she realizes for herself that she is in a dead end relationship will she make changes, that is when you can be a friend and support her decision. The Dom was honest going into the relationship, she was the one who had a hidden agenda. Something in the dysfunctional relationship is working and meeting their needs, otherwise one of them would end it. You can be her friend and not let her bitch about things if she isn't willing to change them. Just tell her she needs to have this conversation with her Master and introduce a topic that is positive and happy, every time she starts complaining, act as if you haven't heard and go on to something pleasant. In time she will understand that you don't want to hear it and aren't going to let her go on about it.

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