RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (Full Version)

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MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/26/2007 3:18:39 PM)

Hmmm......there's grins and there's grins

There's the soft, nervous "*chuckle*.......oh no, oh no, am I really going to have to do that...oh no, oh no.....how did I get myself into this mess.......*chuckle chuckle* *sigh*"

That's great fun.  You know its a struggle for him - and pushing his buttons - but not in an unbearable way

Then there's the "bring it on, baby" smirk. I really hate that smirk.  It deserves a good hard slap.  Trouble with slapping the smirk off a smart alec's face (or doing any other kind of humilation when you are angry) is that the scene can turn into nasty conflict.  Even abusive (by the sub as well as the Domme). 

The objective of humiliation is to prod the sub's worst fears (eg public embarassment) in a safe space in such a way the sub feels triumphant and proud of himself afterwards, not defeated.

So yes and no.  I like eager smiles, embarassed grimaces and nervous giggles.  I dislike smart alec grins.



vampchick88 -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/27/2007 9:50:23 AM)

MsCfromMelbourne has it right. It can be frustrating as hell if they're smiling when your trying to humiliate them.  But try to keep calm *deep breath.  Letting the frustration vent can end badly. Maybe end the scene a bit early. Then plan like hell for the next one. Find weakness in them, fears even. Incorportate those sorts of things and trust me they won't be smiling. At first they might catch you off guard. Its your job to learn, dust off from the experience and give them an experience they never seen coming.



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/27/2007 9:55:44 AM)

From my standpoint... Fox smiles when he is embarassed. The most humiliating things I could do would STILL get a smile, thats his mask.
So, for me, thats not much of an indicator.
Angel does much the same thing. He smiles and acts like theres nothing wrong, but he squirms. Physically, I can always see the reactions. He cant hide the, regardless of the facial reactions.

DV



KindLadyGrey -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/27/2007 10:47:10 AM)

I think Humiliation Puppy would be a great band name. . .maybe for an emo band. . .

I want to thank the subs who have replied to this thread for sharing their experiences and feelings (cherrytvsissy, aidan, politesub, boondoggle. . .hope I'm not missing anyone). I love reading this thread because you guys are absolutely adorable. Your Ladies are very lucky :)

Me, I get off on making subbies blush, most of them do naturally, even when we aren't in public. I would not be satisfied with a shit eating grin at all. I can't say I'd necessarily plan any kind of public play with a "sub" who was oppositional enough to give me such a "can't effect me!" shit eating grin. That sub would be getting beat and cleaning my toilets until he learned a little humility. I'd certainly never take an oppositional sub out in public to show off; he would simply embarrass me. Only good boys get to come out with me [:D]



subfever -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/28/2007 10:20:44 AM)

There have been some excellent responses here. IMO... MsCfrom Melbourne dissected the two reactions to humiliation attempts the best with: "I like eager smiles, embarassed grimaces and nervous giggles.  I dislike smart alec grins." This also perfectly responds to the OP's subject title.

KindLadyGrey strikes my personal chord the best with: "I get off on making subbies blush..." If a Domme is making me truly blush, but I'm still managing to follow her directives, I couldn't imagine a better orchestration of humiliation.

But as for me... public humiliation is best left home in a box.



mons -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/29/2007 2:36:33 AM)

greetings

my slave is into having me pee in a cup and bring it back to the table so he may drink to show is great need for me? i laugh and the look on his face was priceless he was so shy and embarrass i thought i may do this just for him i love when he tuns red and those eye look so shocked . no i have not done tis yet i am thinking on it lol

mons



stripmymanhood -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/29/2007 2:44:31 AM)

i'd have to say i'm with the poster who said if the smile is on their face during, then it's probably not true humiliation....i know for me...the scenes i tend to remember the most are those i'm horrified of at the time...these are the ones you look back on and realize that you've stretched yourself to bring pleasure/arousal to the one you're serving.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha


I enjoy certain forms of humiliation.  But like many things, what I enjoy is the reaction.  I have a wide variety of reactions that can push all kinds of buttons.  I think the first time I humiliated a man was just playful things with my first boyfriends, making them kneel in a public place (even though it was harmless, for a young man with pride, that could be embarassing if friends saw), drink from a dog bowl, crawl on hands and knees, you name it.  Of course, with time, humiliation "play" has become more intense in some areas.

For other women that enjoy humiliation on some level, do you enjoy is simply because of the execution of the act, and there is where your pleasure begins and ends?  Or, is it dependent on the reaction of your submissive?  We have all met submissives who are humiliation whores who lap it up like a puppy and just want more.  Do you feel like you are not getting your itch scratched if he seems to absolutely enjoy the entire thing, more than be uncomfortable about it?

The most intense humiliation scenarios I have done are ones that left the submissive so shaken and bruised (from a pride standpoint) that he he reacted with intense embarassment or shame, but later, as soon as the shame subsided, his reaction was unbelievable, intense arousal.  Then, into the following days, he would reflect on the act and find that he was even MORE aroused by it.  Even though during the at he was mortified and ashamed, he realized in retrospect, he enjoyed every moment of it. 

Familiar?

Akasha




DesFIP -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/29/2007 8:56:01 AM)

FR

I'm curious as to how you know how far to go? How do you determine if this act which is horrifying at the time will be immensely arousing afterwards? And if you've ever misjudged and found that it put up a wall of distrust between you as a result?



stripmymanhood -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/29/2007 9:21:12 AM)

it's not something you can know in advance...i just know that i tend to remember the things more that i've done that i'm not comfortable with...maybe this has to do with knowing one will go beyond their comfort zone to please another...as that is really serving them...not doing something for it's own pleasure's sake...i'll also say that at the time, i'm not thinking about will i look back on it with the 'shit eating grin' on my face...i'm doing it to bring pleasure to the one being served....of course, this is being said from the submissive point of view...maybe not appropriate to reply here...but there it is.



PairOfDimes -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/29/2007 2:29:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

For other women that enjoy humiliation on some level, do you enjoy is simply because of the execution of the act, and there is where your pleasure begins and ends? Or, is it dependent on the reaction of your submissive? We have all met submissives who are humiliation whores who lap it up like a puppy and just want more. Do you feel like you are not getting your itch scratched if he seems to absolutely enjoy the entire thing, more than be uncomfortable about it?



Humiliation, for me, is entirely about the bottom's reactions. And the reactions I want are embarrassment and shame. I'm not getting that itch scratched if she or he appears perfectly happy, or even slightly squirmy. Slight uneasiness/'erotic embarrassment' can be fun, but it's usually an adjunct to something else, not the main event. If the bottom is a little uneasy, that's cute, and fun, and not really sufficient to scratch the humiliation itch. I want discomfort and mortification. Arousal with it can be okay, especially if I can use that arousal to cause further shame. Humiliation is also not about the activity. Seeing my bottom drink from a dog bowl isn't titillating. It's kind of funny-looking, honestly. But seeing reluctance and unwillingness and embarrassment about drinking from that dog bowl--oh, now we have something fun. As long as I'm not doing or seeing something I find unpleasant, I'll facilitate a number of activities about which I feel rather tepid in order to get the desired emotional reaction--be it humiliation, or fear, or distress.

This isn't at all how I approach physical SM, incidentally It's often fun to hear yelps and see grimaces when I'm causing someone pain, but it's not terribly important, especially if I'm doing physical SM that leaves visible feedback (i.e. marks).



LittleMeganV -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/29/2007 5:18:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

I think what I like isn't necessarily the action itself, but the fact that I'm being entertaining and funny and even a little sexy in my vulnerability. So I may not enjoy what is happening (at the moment), but I enjoy the result.



This is the aspect I enjoy about humiliation. Most of the things Ma'am does to humiliate me I don't like and they can be a real pain sometimes, but for the most part I really get a kick out being funny and vulnerable. Ma'am knows the quickest way to get me into a deep submissive state is to embarrass me, not as punishment, but because feeling vulnerable and being humorous/comical to others at my own expense gives me a deep sense of helplessness and submission.

To get more to the point of the thread though, I really think it depends on the sub and their personality. Everyone is different, and whether they enjoy humiliation or not, they will still have a coping mechanism that they will act on. For me (especially growing up) I found the best way past difficult things or embarrassing things was to laugh it off and make jokes about it. That being the case, at time I do have a "shit eat grin" when Ma'am humiliates me, that doesn't make it any less humiliating, more the opposite for me. If I am having a shit eating grin or laughing about it then it is a measurement of just how deeply was was embarrassed. So I think it has to do with knowing that sub and their reactions and back ground. Ma'am has no problem with my levity or grins when she choose to embarrass or humiliate me, because she knows that if I am resorting to it she has been particularly effective in her goal... AND that makes her happy.

So is it still humiliation if he has a huge grin? Depends on the sub and your relationship to him/her and what that individuals coping mechanisms for that type of situation is. Once you know that you can make your own determination when the instance arises as to where it is or is not still humiliation.

Megan



MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Is it humiliation if he's wearing a shit eating grin? (12/29/2007 6:00:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

FR

I'm curious as to how you know how far to go? How do you determine if this act which is horrifying at the time will be immensely arousing afterwards? And if you've ever misjudged and found that it put up a wall of distrust between you as a result?


This is an excellent question

Psychological play is much harder and the damage can last much longer than the old thwack whack play (floggers, canes etc)

Solution is a mixture of things:

Mistress Midori (Fire Horse Productions) teaches to never attack the "core values" of the person.  Find out what matters to them in the pre-interview (job, hobbies, family) and don't go there

Mistress Ursula (Lucrezia de Sade's) teaches you to create a separate persona before the scene and humiliate the splintered off persona, not the core ego.  So she will tell "Fred" (real name) to strip and come back into the dungeon where for one hour he will be "slave".  Slave is tormented, shamed and humiliated, then at the end of the hour, slave crawls out of the dungeon for a shower and "Fred" walks tall back into the room, all smiles. 

Most Mistresses suggest do not use the truth.  So never call a sub "fat", noodle dick", "foureyes" or "jewboy" if he is in fact a chubby, short-sighted, small dicked rabbi.  Pick on something inconsequential or untrue (eg you are a useless slave!!  Worm! Faggot! etc etc)

I always use safewords and tell partners to use their safeword for physical and emotional discomfort.  Especially emotional discomfort  (but to be honest, most boys nod and look at me blankly when told that).  If the scene de-rails and the sub gets cranky, I just ask why he didn't use his safe word.  Mistresses are not mind readers.

If the scene de-rails and the sub has an emotional overload (catatonic, hysterical, severe mood change) I am not sure.  Hope he is tightly secure so he cannot fall/hit you, cover him up if naked, make him comfortable, stop the scene, get help.....I am sure others have better advice than me.


Wall of mistrust? Worse than that - humilation play gone sour can spell the end of the D/s relationship.  They rebel and don't psychologically submit again at all.  Its a disaster.





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