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Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 1:02:25 PM   
suberic


Posts: 175
Joined: 1/9/2005
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline 		Okay, for some time now I have heard the terms "Old School" (I take it to mean those from about 20-30 years ago who invented and structured most of what we know today) and "New School" (meaning the students of the "old school" grew up and became experts in their own right, and changed stuff and relaxed others and taught that).

What I would like to know is this; is there some place where what the Old School taught is itemized, like the protocols and so on? I'm interested in looking at what used to be and learning that.

If there isn't such a list, can we write one here?
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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 1:09:25 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline 		Is there a place where Old School Rock-and-Roll is taught? What about Old School juggling?

Being Old School means you get to bitch about the youngsters, and recollect how back in the day, men were men, women were pretty and slaves grew on trees like oranges.

Being New School means you don't have to study or understand any of the protocols, rituals, and symbols that have been hashed out by those who came before. It also means you don't have to recognize the hard work of people like CollarMe's own John Warren who, with their bravery and effort, have made BDSM something that can actually be talked about on a public message board.

There is no defined Old School (or Old Guard) way. People have always liked rituals, contracts, and protocol. Other people have also always hated it.

If you like protocol, much like I do, make up your own.

For inspiration, have a look at a draft of my house rules.

Most of all, enjoy what you like...don't worry about in what school you belong.

Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 8/17/2005 1:27:05 PM >

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 1:18:05 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: suberic

Okay, for some time now I have heard the terms "Old School" (I take it to mean those from about 20-30 years ago who invented and structured most of what we know today) and "New School" (meaning the students of the "old school" grew up and became experts in their own right, and changed stuff and relaxed others and taught that).

What I would like to know is this; is there some place where what the Old School taught is itemized, like the protocols and so on? I'm interested in looking at what used to be and learning that.

If there isn't such a list, can we write one here?


Ok, I'm only one old fart, but I have a number of old fart friends who have been in the scene for quite a while, and NONE of us ever heard of an Old School until recently. Was it so secret (like those "secret European master clubs one hears of on the interenet [chuckle/gag]) we missed it?

Frankly, my opinion is there has NEVER been a time when there was an kind of "universal" rules or procedures for wiitwd. That includes what people have gotten to call The Old Guard, which was really a group of gay leather/motorcycle clubs connected, at best, by word of mouth.

In short, there isn't any "structure." You do what you and your partner like and what your group, if you have one, tolerates/promotes. No secret handshake, no pin, no t-shirt.

There is a body of knowledge, mostly "what's fun to do" and "that could be dangerous," but how you put it together is pretty much up to you keeping in mind that whatever you do there is probably someone who would put in category two.... and some who will only do it IF it is in category two.

Fortunately, back in 1992, nonfiction books, starting with Jay Wiseman's SM101 (he beat me to press by six months), started appearing. These are probably the most accessable way to get ahold of that body of knowledge.


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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 1:23:53 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

Is there a place where Old School Rock-and-Roll is taught? What about Old School juggling?

Being Old School means you get to bitch about the youngsters, and recollect how back in the day, men were men, women were pretty and slaves grew on trees like oranges.

Being New School means you don't have to study or understand any of the protocols, rituals, and symbols that have been hashed out by those who came before. It also means you don't have to recognize the hard work of people like CollarMe's own John Warren who, with their bravery and effort, have made BDSM something that can actually be talked about on a public message board.

There is no defined Old School (or Old Guard) way. People have always liked rituals, contracts, and protocol. Other people have also always hated it.

If you like protocol, much like I do, make up your own.

For inspiration, have a look at a draft of my http://www.taggard.net/HouseRules.doc.

Most of all, enjoy what you like...don't worry about in what school you belong.

Taggard



Back when I was in the Corps, we used to tell this story:

After Congress created the Marine Corps, a group of naval officers retired to a local bar. Sizing up a husky chap, they bought him a beer and told him about the wonderful opportunity they were offering him. He agree to join up, so they bought him another beer and sent him off to a table in the corner.

Then they tried their spiel on another lad, who agreed to join. The officers bought him a beer and sent him off to join the other recruit.

As he approached the table, he said, "This Marine Corps is great. The officers buy you a beer." The other lad looked at him with distain and said, "In The Old Corps, they bought you two beers."



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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 1:24:49 PM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		Please "OLD" school 20-30 years ago.. WTF

bdsm and protocols and "rules" have been around for thousands of years.
THIS IS NOT NEW...

New School is just younger people trying hard not to be old yet.
I perhaps can accept "Traditional" school and non-traditional school.

I am accept "Gorean school" and Protocol or non-protocol
But "new and old" nope.

Ok maybe I am saying this as I am becoming a "OLD" fart.
Well I am NOT dead yet.



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Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 1:39:37 PM   
suberic


Posts: 175
Joined: 1/9/2005
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Back when I was in the Corps, we used to tell this story:

After Congress created the Marine Corps, a group of naval officers retired to a local bar. Sizing up a husky chap, they bought him a beer and told him about the wonderful opportunity they were offering him. He agree to join up, so they bought him another beer and sent him off to a table in the corner.

Then they tried their spiel on another lad, who agreed to join. The officers bought him a beer and sent him off to join the other recruit.

As he approached the table, he said, "This Marine Corps is great. The officers buy you a beer." The other lad looked at him with distain and said, "In The Old Corps, they bought you two beers."


That's good. Have to remember that one.

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 1:40:55 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
As he approached the table, he said, "This Marine Corps is great. The officers buy you a beer." The other lad looked at him with distain and said, "In The Old Corps, they bought you two beers."


I knew you would be a great addition to this board. Mind if I use that in other places (with attribution, of course)?
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 2:03:10 PM   
Angrylibrarian


Posts: 214
Joined: 8/10/2005
Status: offline 		old-school (adj.)
in ref. to a group of people noted for conservative views or principals on some professional or political matter, 1749.

Adopted late 80's to refer to first generation rap mid 70's (sugarhill gang.) Subsequently co opted by white people everywhere to refer to anything that happened before they were aware of it. Listed in "guide to teenspeak" as "Anything that is old, but not necessarily bad." the inclusion of the phrase in something titled "guide to teenspeak" subsequently signaled the demise of the phrase.

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 2:05:18 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		Old school is a type of rap, homie.

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 2:19:05 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
As he approached the table, he said, "This Marine Corps is great. The officers buy you a beer." The other lad looked at him with distain and said, "In The Old Corps, they bought you two beers."


I knew you would be a great addition to this board. Mind if I use that in other places (with attribution, of course)?
Taggard


Be my guest. In any case, I'm not the originator. I first heard it at PLC Quantico in 1963


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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 2:56:31 PM   
feline


Posts: 1101
Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
Status: offline
quote:

old-school (adj.)
in ref. to a group of people noted for conservative views or principals on some professional or political matter, 1749.


This has been my understanding of "old school". With a few tweeks here and there. Basically if you considered yourself "old school" on certain things you were just saying you had a conservative view.





Attachment (1)

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 3:11:48 PM   
haematopoiesis


Posts: 134
Joined: 7/8/2005
From: the land of oaks
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

Please "OLD" school 20-30 years ago.. WTF

bdsm and protocols and "rules" have been around for thousands of years.
THIS IS NOT NEW...

New School is just younger people trying hard not to be old yet.
I perhaps can accept "Traditional" school and non-traditional school.

I am accept "Gorean school" and Protocol or non-protocol
But "new and old" nope.

Ok maybe I am saying this as I am becoming a "OLD" fart.
Well I am NOT dead yet.





On the converse, I have seen more "older" people use this than "younger." A lot of people who have contacted me used this as a way to try and get into my good graces. "I am old school/old guard. I have been doing this long enough to know the ins and outs and keep you safe and respect your privacy blah blah what have you."


Frankly, there are plenty of people with superior talent who do not have that much experience, and plenty of people with tons of experience who are severely lacking on talent. While experience does have some factor in most people's abilities, I don't think that it should hash out quite so much influence as people would like to attribute to it.

---

As for itemization of what used to be taught, as opposed to what is taught now, I would think that the simplest thing to do would be to look at older publications. Of course, there were many things not documented that were done centuries ago, and many things that were documented that not everyone did. This still holds true today, and will likely always be the case. The biggest problem with trying to 'itemize' these things is that there is nothing new in this world. There are some things that are the evolution of what has come before, but odds are that if you have thought of it then someone else has as well. If you've done it, somebody else has probably done it too. Even if it was a hundred years ago on a different continent and using a slightly different tool.

So how old school are you looking to get? There are some wonderful publications on torture devices and their implementations over the centuries, and doubtless they provided no end of inspiration to old-schoolin' kinksters.

Thumb screws anyone?

(in reply to Kinkypupper)
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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 4:30:16 PM   
MstrHellsFury


Posts: 388
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

Thumb screws anyone?
[/quote]


I guess I'll just have to use the thumb screws...they've been lying around collecting dust and cobwebs since the earth was dust...or is that me...

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 5:05:23 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


In short, there isn't any "structure." You do what you and your partner like and what your group, if you have one, tolerates/promotes. No secret handshake, no pin, no t-shirt.



So what am I suppose to do with this secret decoder ring?...grin

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 6:09:39 PM   
lovingmaster5880


Posts: 5
Joined: 8/15/2004
Status: offline 		Oldschool is Oldschool, New school will be oldschool, and Newschool will always be old.

Its a term used everywhere to define how things were done versus how things are done now.

Mostly newschool is better and more touchyfeely, and oldschool is old and 3 lashes for not saying thankyou ma'am to your momma when she passed the corn

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 6:27:28 PM   
lovingmaster45


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline 		Please allow an old fart to chime in.
For me old school meant not assuming a title unless it was bestowed. I will admit to being very "put off" by the "Sirs" and "Lords" that seem to occupy cyber space; but rarely show up at major bdsm events.
I started as a slut to Mistress Cathy at age 15. Luckily the "age police" were not a part of bdsm in those days.
When I had developed to the point of making a switch to dominant (age 40), I was given the tag of Dom821. It was several years before my Mentors told me that I could use the title "Master". I then became Master Jerry. I am convinced that I was brought into my role "properly". I have met others who did not have the advantage of having tremendous Mentors like Lord Cuff and Lord Titan and I have been honored to lend my knowledge to a few. But most are of the opinion that they need no help. I admit that I still do. I keep several dominants (male and female) very close to use as a sounding board for any problems that I experience in the training of new people.
I thank all who have contributed to my growth and who have placed themselves under my direction. BTW...I am NOT conservative...lol.

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/17/2005 8:00:48 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		First time I have heard this referenced as either old or new school (must be a internet chat thing)... like so many here already said... I always thought old school was about music.

Now I do understand what the OP was getting at... we would tease each other & say dinosaurs. The term seemed to fit.

Persons who actually had the benefit of mentors or peers if you prefer, that had substantial experience to learn from are fewer & fewer. This seems as if it is dying out, extinction.

Mr Warren said, "You do what you and your partner like and what your group, if you have one, tolerates/promotes." & what lovingmaster45 said "not assuming a title unless it was bestowed" by his group. This is my background.

I am glad to have come from this background. If I had not found others that had their 10-20-30 plus years of experience to learn from I would have never figured out so much about myself. Twenty (plus) years ago there really were no resources. Going to the smutty magazine store wasn't an option for a young lady. Word of mouth & actual real time experience was the only way to gain knowledge.

I can't completely applaud the explosion that the internet has produced. Where finding like-minded folk was so hard many years ago... at least there were less to weed out. What I mean by that there is just so much MORE it is overwhelming. So many new people just stepping in, when I would rather talk with people who have at least 8 or 10 years of real time under their belts. Nothing against the 'newer folk' but sometimes the older folk just yearn for conversation & socialization based on experience & not theory.

Well enough stuff from the youngin' dinosaur tonight,

MstrssPassion

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 8/17/2005 8:07:00 PM >

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RE: Old School vs. "New" School - 8/18/2005 7:26:47 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		The Old School, consisting of those who have been about for sone time and figure they don’t need to learn anything else, is made up of the New School, who refuse all assistance from the old school because they believe the oldies don’t know anything anyway.

From the Old School comes the OLD FARTS.. These guys have had more breakfasts and handled more sub/slaves that the rest put together, are happy to learn new spins on old techniques and don’t give a shit if they are taught by the Old School or the New School as long as the teacher has credibility, integrity, knowledge and ability.

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Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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