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RE: Walmart - 12/15/2007 3:45:33 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wistfulmale

WalMart told them that the contract was the contract. Either honor it or they wouldn't sell Rubbermaid's stuff that year.


Imagine that...

A contract's a contract.

Rubbermaid was socking it away in the early 90's when sweet crude was going for $12 a barrell and I bet they were increasing their prices not lowering them.

(in reply to wistfulmale)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Walmart - 12/15/2007 3:55:01 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:



I just finished reading SUPERCAPITALISM by Robert Reich, the former Secretary of Labor under Clinton.

One thesis of his book as that we citizens need to stop pointing fingers at companies who follow the laws of the market, or who play the game as the market allows. Why? Because such finger-pointing actually contributes to the core problems of slave labor, substandard wages, union busting, monopoly concerns, and the evisceration of main street. (Problems attributed to Walmart.)

Societal and economic problems, Reich argues, will not be changed or addressed by vilifying Walmart or other any individual business. No, such problems need to be addressed by looking at the the laws which allow for such unseemly business practices in the first place.

By criticizing or vilifying Walmart, Reich states, attention is actually diverted away from the core aspect of the problem itself: the lack of democratic, civic regulation of our "free markets."

In other words, one should not condemn a company profiting from child labor, if such practices are legal. No, one should pass child labor laws instead.


It's refreshing to see that there are some people who recognize that treating the cause makes more sense than treating the symptom. I suspect I'd enjoy reading Reich's book.

< Message edited by subfever -- 12/15/2007 3:56:06 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Walmart - 12/15/2007 8:28:17 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		i would rather go with out than get it free at walmart .And this was even before  getting the walmart dvd .try and find that dvd at wallyworld .

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Walmart - 12/15/2007 8:36:16 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
It's refreshing to see that there are some people who recognize that treating the cause makes more sense than treating the symptom.


What makes sense is doing whatever works, even if only for the short term. Circumstances change and then you'll want to to do something else to fix things again.

Reality rarely fits into the mold of one's personal ideals.

A good leader would know how to plot a course and then make the necessary incremental changes to stay on course.

-----

Wal-mart has made a good business from exploiting various gaps in the system that allow a multi-national to profit from safety net measures that were intended for the benefit of individuals. If you want to create a more even playing field for Wal-mart's competitors then Universal Healthcare would be a step in the right direction. Wal-mart because of its size has neatly managed to keep thousands of employed only partly employed in order to deny them health insurance and maintain profit levels accordingly higher based on that denial of employee benefits.

Of course, we taxpayers are footing the bill for emergency health services for the benefit of Wal-mart. Now, I don't mind footing that particular bill, but not in a way that favors one business, or only a few businesses - it should favor everyone.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have frequent preventative care for all over emergency services constantly being strained at high cost.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Walmart - 12/15/2007 8:54:55 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

How in the world is Wal-Mart a monopoly?

Target
K-Mart/Sears
JC Penny
Best Buy
Circuit City
Boscov's
Costco
BJ's
Dillards
Khols
The area bunch more I am sure.

Shopping Target is the same as shoping Wal-Mart................



I noticed FEW answered this question.
Can we say hypocrites?
I just spent 4 hours in Wal Mart, there prices are great!!!!!!!

_____________________________

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To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


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(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Walmart - 12/15/2007 9:06:42 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Call me crazy, but I'd rather have frequent preventative care for all over emergency services constantly being strained at high cost.



One thing I noticed managing computer facilities is that managers of budgets generally sought ways to try to get somebody else to pay for things so it did not show up on their own budget.

Wal-mart has done this.  They do whatever they can to profit, while knowing that their business practices penalize both the employee and the government.  They dont care because they are not paying for it.

Wal-mart is not a monopoly.  Yet.

Sinergy



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(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Walmart - 12/15/2007 9:32:58 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

There's a recent review that defuses many of Reich's pseudo-arguments:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20853

Of course I agree that the way to control corporations is to pass laws restricting their behavior. (I hear that that makes me a Communist.)


The bulk of Reich's efforts go into explaining "what is," as opposed to how to fix our democracy. After reading it, I do feel better informed about how public policy issues should be framed, and how corporations behave as private enterprises and interested lobbyists in Washington.

One point Reich did make was that businesses should be more tied to economic activity and more separated from weighing in on public policy issues. For Reich, public policy issues should be the domain of US citizens, not corporate influence.

The guideposts of our economy: investors seeking the highest return, consumers seeking the best bargain --- run the whole show. I'm glad Reich did not moralize about bad consumer, CEO, and political behavior. To him, such would be a misguided and ineffective tack to undertake meaningful reform. For Reich, it is important to understand how Washington works, how corporations exert influence, and how a return to democracy and public policy legislation demands a way for citizen voices to be heard --- as opposed to drowned out. To him this means divorcing, to some degree our economic interests from our democratic interests.

At present, he argues, there is little if any dividing line.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/15/2007 9:35:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Walmart - 12/15/2007 10:40:41 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I am not one of the people that bash Wal-Mart.  They are in business to make money, and that is just the way it is.  I only go in there when I have to buy something there.  But my reluctance to shop there has nothing to do with ethics.  I just can't stand shopping in those huge stores.  I like small places that I can pop in and out of.  They have an Alco here in my town that I like to go to.  They don't have the greatest selection, but they are a small department store.  They remind me of the old Wal-Marts before they turned them all into supercenters.  I rarely shop at Wal-Mart for groceries.  I just don't like their selection.  I have found their prices aren't any better than Kroger's where I usually get groceries.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Walmart - 12/15/2007 11:49:37 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~ Fast Reply ~

A very interesting article on Walmart from USA Today.  Those who think Walmart is not a monopoly ought to read it. 

Same with those who think it doesn't matter how their money is made.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2003-01-28-walmartnation_x.htm

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 12:20:14 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		And friday night on the local news here they said you shouldn't buy Christmas decorations at Walmart that say "made in China" on them! Yup, LEAD!
China is poisoning this country with lead!
I haven't been in a Walmart in 5 1/2 years now and it's a nice feeling.
You feel like you need a shower after you get out of there.
I go to Costco. They treat their employees very well, the average pay is $18 per hour plus they have good benefits.
Talking with a Costco employee and a Walmart employee is noticably different.
The Costco people are knowledgable, polite, efficient and very cheerfull!
If I'm going to spend my money somewhere I want it to be a place that treats it's people well.
For all you people who are addicted to Walmart try shopping somewhere else!
One day at a time. Easy does it! Thirty days and you'll be home free!
"Hey, hand me that car rag!"
"It's not a car rag it's my shirt, I got it at Walmart!"

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 5:13:39 AM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		lol popeye, I shop at just about every store around.
That is one of my points, I probably regularly shop in
at least 20 different stores.
But then I live a the big city.

p.s.- I don't buy clothes at Wal Mart, but do the 5 pair of socks I got
last night for $3 count?

< Message edited by MzMia -- 12/16/2007 5:14:57 AM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 5:45:18 AM   
BloodLuna


Posts: 403
Joined: 10/28/2007
Status: offline 		boycotting something if you can afford to shop somewhere else more expensive may be fine for those that can afford to do so.  but what about the thousands of people, like luna and her family, who are on such a strict budget that they cannot afford the even slightly higher prices of Kmart, Target and other stores?  yes, it sucks that alot of their product is cheaply made - but we also live in a society in which the lower income bracket is being forced into an even lower income bracket every year.  and Walmart won't be hurt by the few 100 middle class families that can afford to shop elsewhere, because of the 1,000s of low income families that have no other choice.  Not to mention that when you add in the expensive gas it takes to get to anywhere more out of the way than the walmart on the corner . . . it begins to add up for many families. 
 
Instead of boycotting, would lobbying to increase safety standards of imports purchased/accepted by any business in the USA be a more worthwhile use of time and money?  Shouldn't Walmart and all other companies be held to a specific standard as far as what is constituted safe and fined lavishly for every time a recall is made on an unsafe item?  Eventually, wouldn't not sticking to a safety standard cost them more than using safe manufacturing practices in any country?
 
luna


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 6:07:30 AM   
ravennfyre


Posts: 161
Joined: 6/23/2007
Status: offline 		where i live, the only "discount" store in a 50 miles radius is WalMart, and in light of how expensive gas has been, i really have no choice but to shop there.

(in reply to BloodLuna)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 6:24:28 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		I'm so thankful that the nearest Walmart is 30 miles away. I can count on one hand the times I've shopped there, the employees are rude & sulky. Of course knowing how they are treated I can't blame them but I don't want to shop at a place where the employees grudgingly 'help' or count back the change.The stores I've been in were dirty and really messy, both of those are shopping turn offs for me and I shudder a bit to think about the food. I knew someone who worked there and she admitted that if a gallon of milk were found in hardware it would just be put back on the shelf to be sold. Ew.Primarily it is the attitude of the entire store from the top on down that turns me off from shopping there.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 7:57:58 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		BloodLuna:

Product safety is only one of many issues to lay at the feet of Wal-mart. I don't shop there for a whole host of reasons including employee relations, the drain on the overall economy, slave labor in China, doing business with China in the first place, off-shoring labor, unfair competition, offshore assets, etc.

We need businesses in America that feed the American economy and American workers - a water that lifts all boats.

Instead, Wal-mart is an anchor that will drag us to the depths.

How low do you want to go?

Choose.


(in reply to BloodLuna)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 8:47:25 AM   
BloodLuna


Posts: 403
Joined: 10/28/2007
Status: offline 		Charro
 
please forgive luna if she sounds rude because thats not her intention.  she wishes to speak from experience right now and hopes that you and others understand what she is trying to say.
 
 last winter luna went without gloves so that her child could have a pair of boots.  Walmart donated thousands of pairs of gloves to food banks and clothing assist programs last year and luna still has the pair she received.  luna personally knows people that starved themselves to feed their children because after a year of job hunting they couldn't find work.  2 of these ladies now work for walmart and are very grateful they have food on the table and a roof over their children's heads.  at target or kmart the extra .50 cents to $1 overage costs over walmart prices may seem small - but when you have a cart full and not an extra dime in your budget you have to begin to weigh necessities.  little sally wears her too small shoes because little billy absolutely has to have x, y, z.  mom goes without her prescription so that she can buy infant tylenol, or formula, etc. 
 
Its wonderful to be conscious of the struggles of big business and coorperations and little 9 year old Win Chong who is working to feed his family over in China.  But not at the exclusion of 8 year old little sally who right here in the same town as you is wearing her shoes one size too small.  These families aren't worried about what is happening in other countries, they are only just trying to survive day by day. 
 
 if china has slave labor problems - let them deal with their own country and let's start having American's worry about the those here at home that need the help.  Again - as per luna's first post, luna is not saying give up the fight, let them get away with it.  Only, make the changes where it can benefit everyone.  Lobby for Safety with your local government agencies, fines for unsafe/recalled items, etc
 
but, right now, while its cold out, go buy a coat and a pair of gloves from each store: Target, Kmart, Walmart.  Go hand them out on a street corner to a few people who can't afford to buy them on their own - tell them - do you want the coat from Kmart or Walmart?  These gloves were made in china by a 9 year old, still want them?  luna guarentees you they won't care whether it was bought at Kmart or Walmart or made by Win Chong in China or John Good Ole Boy in Iowa City, USA.  They'll just be grateful to be warm. 
 
luna
 
 

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"Old goths never die, they just need less makeup"



(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 9:10:03 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Much of their charity funding is collected from their underpaid employees. It just goes on and on like that...

My point is hardly that I care about the Chinese or their problems. Far from it. Not that I wish them ill either though.

I must presume my actual point flew right over your head:

Buy american.

And that's going to be really hard at Wal-mart. It's hard to do in many other places too, but at least at other stores there is more of a chance you can buy American.

< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 12/16/2007 9:12:00 AM >

(in reply to BloodLuna)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 11:29:30 AM   
BloodLuna


Posts: 403
Joined: 10/28/2007
Status: offline 		Churro:  luna totally understands the concept of Buy American.  pleas don't think she doesn't.  this girl wishes she could afford to do that!!!   :) this girl rather enjoyed the short banter with you and respects your position immensely.  give her a little while to think about it and she'll respond again.  perhaps her personal experiences cloud her overall view of this issue a little.
 
luna

_____________________________

"Old goths never die, they just need less makeup"



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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 12:18:10 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm sure I've posted this before, but this article is still an illuminating overview of Walmart's business practices.  (It was written before the recent spate of tainted products from China.)

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17647

(in reply to BloodLuna)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Walmart - 12/16/2007 4:16:46 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

BloodLuna:

Product safety is only one of many issues to lay at the feet of Wal-mart. I don't shop there for a whole host of reasons including employee relations, the drain on the overall economy, slave labor in China, doing business with China in the first place, off-shoring labor, unfair competition, offshore assets, etc.

We need businesses in America that feed the American economy and American workers - a water that lifts all boats.

Instead, Wal-mart is an anchor that will drag us to the depths.

How low do you want to go?

Choose.




Churro, well said.
"Toys *For* children not *Made* by children."
I wouldn't want to go around in clothing sold by Walmart, what if I saw a couple of other guys wearing the same exact shirt or sweater!
Then everyone would know that I was a cheap fuck who probably wore a disquise to sneak into Walmart in case I ran into friends or neighbors!
Then there's the visual of big fat women in brown spandex pants pouring out the front doors of Walmarts, eating giant buckets of heavily buttered popcorn!
MY EYES!!!  MY EYES!!!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 12/16/2007 4:19:24 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 40
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