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There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 12:33:50 PM

CuriousLord

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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Alright, I need some help understanding the need to be submissive.

Reading over the forums, there's this occasional thread about, "Help! My lover and I are submissives and we don't know what to do!" Which I never get, because I've always felt that people struggle for dominance, and, that, in relationships, a point of compromise is just found. But a relationship in which no one wants the dominance.. so much so that the lack of it becomes a problem..? That's just.. I don't get it.

My view on submissive tendancies is that someone's typically submissive since they're normally dominant, at least with themselves, and are just polarized to accepting submissiveness. But people who are so submissive that they can't even be polarized towards being dominant? I don't get it.. how does that work, mentally? How can someone like that survive? What's it even like to need to be submissive? How are decisions ever made? Do these people just exist in limbo until told what to do?

No offense intended to anyone.. I'm just confused.

Edit: After toservez's reply, I'm also wondering if sub/sub couples might be composed of individuals who are otherwise fine alone, it's just when they're together that the mutual submissive quality becomes an issue?

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 12/17/2007 12:54:37 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 12:49:08 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
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From: All over now in Minnesota
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I can make a decision in a microsecond for myself or as part of my job. I hate to make a decision or do something that might cause a person I care for problems or some sort of annoyance.

My submissiveness does not interfere with my personal life it comes up when with people I care about and therefore in particular with my significant other. I want/need them to do what they want and do not like them doing things only because they think I want them to.

My submissiveness is separate from my love of being dominated. Sure most of the time the two interact together in harmony but being dominated is still far different then being submissive toward someone.

Two strong submissive personalities together:

“What do you want to do.”
“Whatever you want to do.”
“I want to do what ever you want to do.”
“Same with me.”

Check out people in relationships. Many are like this. A decision where to eat can take hours as each plays the game of I really would like this but not really sure if they do as well. I would say even in fact most people are like this then decisive one way or the other.

One submissive alone:

“I will do this”.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 2

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 12:57:29 PM

CuriousLord

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Thanks, that does make sense. I guess their submissive qualities mostly come out in a relationship? That it's just complicated when they're both trying to be submissive, but they'd both be fine when alone or single?

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 3

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 12:57:54 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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An interesting word "need".

I don't need to be submissive like I need water, food and air. I do, however, need to be the submissive partner in a relationship in order to feel as if I'm being true to my nature. In other words, to be happy.

Am I submissive all the time in all things? Oh heck, no. I have no problems making decisions and in fact do so all the time. It's just that for my personality, I flourish in a personal relatonship where I am a follower rather than a leader. It doesn't mean I'm incapable of leading... I'm actually a pretty good leader and outside of the relationship I have with FirmhandKY, I end up in that role quite often.

When I was married, I was with someone who lacked the desire and ability to lead. Because someone had to fulfill that role, it fell to me. It made me very unhappy to be forced into something that felt unnatural for me.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 4

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 1:03:30 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Thanks, that does make sense. I guess their submissive qualities mostly come out in a relationship? That it's just complicated when they're both trying to be submissive, but they'd both be fine when alone or single?

In my regular daily life I'm in charge. I don't like it but it's normal for me. It is unnatural for me to allow myself to be submissive. It is not normal to be true to my submissive nature due to my own past decisions and thus submission is something I have to work at. I ~need~ to be submissive in order to feed this need inside myself; otherwise, I feel off balance.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 5

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 1:18:21 PM

AFlyInYourWeb

Posts: 284
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

But people who are so submissive that they can't even be polarized towards being dominant? I don't get it.. how does that work, mentally? How can someone like that survive? What's it even like to need to be submissive? How are decisions ever made? Do these people just exist in limbo until told what to do?

In everyday life, I can be the most Dominant s.o.b. you ever want to meet. I've run everything from car dealerships to election campaigns.

However, certain women seem to give off a Dominant aura to which I respond submissively. To make it even more complex, I react to each Dominant woman's individual aura differently. I was not the same sub in any two relationships. Now, some of that can be attributed to different wants and needs of the Domina, and some to my growing experience level...but it has less to do with what acts I performed than how I performed them, and how I felt about doing them.

I could Dom...and probably get more dates that way...but my heart isn't in it, and I'm sure my performance would be just that: a performance.

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(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 6

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 2:44:24 PM

OrrisKitten

Posts: 59
Joined: 7/18/2007
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I am the sub in my relationship, but one thing I have been wondering a lot in regards to this question... Does being a sub mean you are submissive all of the time?

For me, it does not mean that. In the relationship my Dom and I have, we are equals and by relationship I mean that we do not only function as a kinky couple and have I guess a 'vanilla' relationship in a sense. We both decide what our needs are, how we are feeling. We both pull our own weight.

On the other hand, in some other realms, it is a power exchange. I think the biggest example of this is sexually. Sexually, my Dom has 99% of the control over me (The 1% is the margin for error, as in I have a choice to disobey him and still be his, perhaps with punishment). He controls my orgasms, and generally tells me what I should be doing sexually. In the rest of my life he is not very Dominant, no more than I am in his life, unless I ask him. In the past, it has helped me focus more. If my Dom as my Dom is telling me "You can only do _____ 2 times in one week" I will listen. In a sense, he acts as my consciousness. I can reason my way out of things to myself, to him it is much harder and in the past I have used this if I want to set a goal. However, this is something we both agreed on and realized from the start of our relationship. At all times I am his sub, but he is not always directing me. I belong to him.

As for being polarized towards dominance... I don't think it will ever really happen for me. It is not something I like or enjoy. I do not want to be the one directing something or someone. It does not make me feel comfortable. Maybe it is just my own self doubt as in I am learning to care for myself, how could I possibly be in charge of someone else's safety, etc.? But regardless, I do not see myself being a Domme in my life. I see myself possibly topping and exploring my sadistic side, but I don't see my Dom side emerging ever.

Hope this helped

(in reply to AFlyInYourWeb)

Post #: 7

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 3:24:38 PM

SubmissiveAK

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Joined: 3/5/2007
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I can be dominant in some aspects, in fact I enjoy it... when it comes to business or work or what have you I like to do things my way, fix problems and watch something come to fruition.

When it comes to D/s, I am totally submissive. I dont know why its me, but I enjoy it and desire that loss of control. I understand it, but I cant put it into words. Its difficult for me to understand what motivates someone to whip, flogg or control someone else... I just dont quite get it.

~submissiveAK~

(in reply to OrrisKitten)

Post #: 8

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 3:41:24 PM

chellekitty

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Joined: 3/27/2005
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FR...

i don't struggle for dominance, i don't struggle to submit either...i don't play authority games...i either do or i don't...dominate or submit...in my romantic relationships, i am always a slave...in my kinky relationships/encounters i can top or bottom, i prefer to bottom most of the time...but i don't struggle with at any point...if someone wants to fight for their place, they can do it with someone else....

did i answer the questions?

chelle

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to SubmissiveAK)

Post #: 9

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 3:52:33 PM

LittleWench

Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

However, certain women seem to give off a Dominant aura to which I respond submissively.

And this is why two submissives end up together. Who you are at home, in your relationships, in bed, is not always the aura your public self displays, so whilst a submissive might be attracted to a dominant personality, it's not always the type of person you attract. Then you get caught up in the "this is a really nice person, they care for me, I really like them, am I so shallow as to ignore them as a person simply because they don't dominate me." The next thing you know you are spending an hour trying to figure out what is for dinner.

I agree with toservez. I have no problem making decisions for those I am responsible for, and for myself, but I do not wish to be responsible for, or make choices for, another adult... because for me that puts me in the role of the parent in the relationship.

(in reply to AFlyInYourWeb)

Post #: 10

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 4:24:36 PM

daddyncherry

Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
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i am submissive at my core...a people pleaser type...some one who will defer to others wishes above my own because i want to see others happy....generally speaking this is just who i have always been. Why? i'm sure it has something to do with my wiring and my upbringing combined.

This doesn't mean that i'm not able to be assertive or have thoughts and ideas of my own, on the contrary, i am VERY creative and have all kinds of stuff going on in my mind...but most things i like to do are things that i can do to make others happy.

Alone, i am okay but i don't thrive really....i make due and get by and do things for my loved ones (family and friends)...Also, if i am out in the world at large alone i have a tendency to be nervous and that can make me sometimes SEEM like i'm dominant but i'm really just scared or nervous or something like that.

When coupled in a relationship with a non dominant and where i am more in control of things i can be a raving bitch....basically for the same reasons stated above about fear....putting the bulk of responsibility on my head is not a positive thing for me...and not a natural state of being for me. Someone should be in charge (in my world) and that person should not be me)

When in a relationship with a Dominant partner i am just a deeper version of who i am naturally....and it's that part of me that i really like.....the part that is the most content and uncontrived. ... i love doing for someone i love and i love having to answer and be accountable to someone.

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to LittleWench)

Post #: 11

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 5:17:54 PM

AFlyInYourWeb

Posts: 284
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench

quote:

However, certain women seem to give off a Dominant aura to which I respond submissively.

And this is why two submissives end up together. Who you are at home, in your relationships, in bed, is not always the aura your public self displays, so whilst a submissive might be attracted to a dominant personality, it's not always the type of person you attract. Then you get caught up in the "this is a really nice person, they care for me, I really like them, am I so shallow as to ignore them as a person simply because they don't dominate me."

Well, I am that shallow... :) ...and that it is why I don't date 'nilla, or female submissives...to avoid the nightmare scenario.

I am saving those poor lasses much time and emotional grief...not to mention myself. I went through my vanilla period in the Eighties, and I've learned I won't be happy and content in such a relationship.

They say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different outcome.

I simply do not expect the outcome to change.

_____________________________

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(in reply to LittleWench)

Post #: 12

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 6:19:42 PM

petdave

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
My view on submissive tendancies is that someone's typically submissive since they're normally dominant, at least with themselves, and are just polarized to accepting submissiveness. But people who are so submissive that they can't even be polarized towards being dominant? I don't get it.. how does that work, mentally? How can someone like that survive? What's it even like to need to be submissive? How are decisions ever made? Do these people just exist in limbo until told what to do?

Well, here's the flip side of your question. How can someone feel comfortable saying "This is what I want, and you'll go along with it whether you like it or not" to someone they care about? Or if they're not inclined to be Dominant in that particular way, how can they be 100% certain that the decision they're making is best for both parties? Why would anyone want to take responsibility for making a decision that could make their partner unhappy?

i don't think there's any such thing as being dominant with yourself, because there's no conflict or opposing interests. It's not a matter of pleasing yourself or pleasing someone else- it's just pleasing yourself. There are no unknowns. When i'm alone, out on my bike in some unfamiliar town, i can make immediate, confident decisions (and promptly get lost). Put somebody else with me, and all i can think about is doing the right thing for them, which of course i can't be sure of.

Which all sounds terribly dysfunctional, i guess, because it is. So i'll caveat that i don't speak for all submissives. But that's my insight.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 13

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 6:44:03 PM

CdnExplorer

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It is possible to be dominant with yourself, if you look at it in a certain way. I basically always maintain a very strong level of control over myself and my emotions, which is part of a larger pattern of being strong and independent, if not dominant, in vanilla life.

My need to submit is the flip side of that. The feeling that comes from it is so relieving that I don't see how I could live without it. When a scene is over I can end up feeling downright meditative. Basically the most relaxing sensation I've ever felt.

(in reply to petdave)

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RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 8:18:06 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

An interesting word "need".

I don't need to be submissive like I need water, food and air. I do, however, need to be the submissive partner in a relationship in order to feel as if I'm being true to my nature. In other words, to be happy.

Am I submissive all the time in all things? Oh heck, no. I have no problems making decisions and in fact do so all the time. It's just that for my personality, I flourish in a personal relatonship where I am a follower rather than a leader. It doesn't mean I'm incapable of leading... I'm actually a pretty good leader and outside of the relationship I have with FirmhandKY, I end up in that role quite often.

When I was married, I was with someone who lacked the desire and ability to lead. Because someone had to fulfill that role, it fell to me. It made me very unhappy to be forced into something that felt unnatural for me.

Are you sure we are not related?..

...Tempting

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I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to TreasureKY)

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RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 9:11:51 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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Some decisions I can make easily. But if the decision involves people I love, then it can be agonizing for me. I want everything to be perfect for them no matter how bad it is for me. Even things like picking which flavor ice cream can be difficult. One likes mint, the other hates anything with nuts, etc. As it happens I like fruit ice creams but I almost never buy one, I buy the stuff that will please everyone but me.

As you can see, that kind of attitude quickly leads to burn out. Being with a dominant who is very protective means he takes into account the effects of a decision on me, something I can't do. As a result I'm happier. Two people like me, each trying to please the other, easily winds up as a mess with both guessing wrong and neither getting what they need.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

Post #: 16

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 10:01:54 PM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I think you mistake the need to be submissive in a romantic, sexual, or service sense with being submissive in all things. We can be oriented toward submission in one sense, and not in others. We can also only feel submissive toward individuals, and not to the world at large. It is who my Daddy is that draws out my submissiveness... I have no inclination to be submissive other than that. I do not languish waiting for someone to be submissive to... I am more competent than most people I know to make my own decisions, and make them well. Being submissive does not equal incompetent and unable to funtion without someone telling you what to do, it means that we desire to give power over to our mate/lover/owner... it says nothing about my intellect or problem solving ability that I desire to submit to someone.. it just says that he brings out my submissiveness..

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 17

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 10:37:30 PM

JulieorSarah

Posts: 552
Joined: 8/25/2007
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To curious Lord

I've only read your posting and none of the others so if this has been said before, i apologise in advance for the duplication. I'm a strong personality, far from being quiet shy and retiring. However when it 'that' state of mind with Sir i'm particularly servile, anything to please Sir. It's this particular person that brings it out in me. I'm against violence, torture towards me (or anyone else) at any other time, but when we are together I give consent for it to please/serve him. He is normally a very respectful person, particularly to those around him. I seem to bring the sadist out in him. He has been with others who craved it and he delivered, but did not get much out of it. Now, knowing i'm not interested in pain, it pleases him to give it to me. It pleases me to serve him.

I need to please him. I don't need to be submissive, at any other time. It may just be in BDSM play they, the sub/sub couples you refer, do not know what to do as they are used to following the lead of a Dom. My 2c has been spent.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 18

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/17/2007 11:51:50 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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greetings curiouslord,

i'm not and have never been in a sub/sub couple, so i can't speak from that perspective, but as someone whose submissiveness is certainly NOT an outlet for my having to be dominant in other areas of my life, i thought i would reply.

i don't "need" to be submissive - i am submissive. that's my personality, it's who i am, all the time. i'm not submissive because in other areas of my life i tend to be dominant. there are some areas of my life where i am pushed into being dominant, but it is out of necessity, not out of my own desire or personality, so i don't consider myself polarized into being dominant. i'm a people pleaser. i hate making decisions. i'm not particularly good at setting boundaries, saying no, and taking care of myself, although i've had to learn to be much better at that in the last few years.

how does it work? well, it kind of sucks, because i have to be dominant in The Real World out of necessity, in order to live. but it doesn't change the fact that i'm submissive and i would not necessarily choose to be dominant if there were any other way to survive. i enjoy being submissive in relationship because it's where i can truly be who i am - i try to be whole and myself all the time and not put up fronts or anything like that, ever, and i don't hide things unless i absolutely have to, but like i said, out of necessity, when it's just me, i have to "act dominant" to do the things that have to be done. but to be with someone i can trust with myself enough to not have to do that with them is a rare blessing. it's not so much that i'm submissive with them and not the rest of the time, as that i am submissive all of the time but there are just few safe places where i can be actively so.

respectfully,
annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 19

RE: There's a need to be submissive? - 12/18/2007 3:47:57 AM

Dolce

Posts: 34
Joined: 10/17/2007
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I have a position that requires me to be dominant and in-charge from 8-12+ hours a day. By the time I come home, I am so tired of being "the boss" that I want nothing more than to just relinquish control to somebody else and be told what to do. While I /can/ make those split-second executive decisions, I've found that I much prefer a partner who is willing to assert the dominant role.

As I've been exploring the BDSM world, I've found that's a big part of why some of my first few vanilla relationships didn't work out so well. :-) I wanted a gent to be in charge, and I wound up having to be in charge all the time.

_____________________________

The presence of a noble nature...changes the lights for us: we begin to see things again in their larger, quieter masses, and to believe that we too can be seen and judged in the wholeness of our character. ~George Eliot

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 20

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