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Consequences...When? - 12/17/2007 6:06:10 PM

LoveMyAussiePet

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Joined: 12/7/2007
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When/What Circumstances do you discipline your submissive?

Do you discipline them for ANY breach of your rules/expectations - regardless of explanation or circumstance?

Do you discipline if you think it justifiable?

Do you listen to your submissive if some form of breach is made, communicate back and forth and discuss? Or do you just whip out some form of punishment off the bat?

Just looking for answers, not necessarily a "right" or "wrong" one.

If you need food for thought heres a pair of different examples on different ends of the spectrum (at least in my eyes):

Scenario 1) Sub is supposed to perform a specific task and fails to come through - How do you react?

Scenario 2) Sub does something you dont particularly like, she assumes you wont like, but communication isnt possible (legitimate reason) so she doesnt know EXACTLY what your wishes might be - How do you react?

Post #: 1

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/17/2007 7:05:00 PM

Rover

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On a personal level, someone who does not respond to rational conversation and shared expectations is simply not compatible with me. And while I cannot say that I have never disciplined or punished, it is exceptionally rare indeed.

Someone who requires or desires regular or frequent discipline or punishment needs someone other than me for a partner.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to LoveMyAussiePet)

Post #: 2

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/17/2007 7:08:13 PM

Ryugen

Posts: 69
Status: offline

I personally think every situation is individual, and needs to be treated as such. However, having said that myself and my slave have talked about and agreed on acceptable and suitable punishment for a perceived wrong-doing. As for timeline, I think punishment should be dished out after it has been made clear between both parties as to what the infringement was and whether it was an accident or not, etc. Then punishment should be dished out as soon as possible after the discussion so that the sub/slave is most aware of what their infringement was and that it was an infringement (on whatever rules the Master/Dom and sub/slave have agreed upon for their relationship).

As to the scenarios;
1) Depends on the task. If what you've asked of the sub is reasonable, and they are without any inhibitions to complete it, then the reason for punishment should be clearly communicated and punishment should be visited upon them. Although it really depends on the situation.

2) If the sub knows it's wrong, then you've got to establish between the two of you exactly why the sub did what they did, and then deal with that accordingly. If that "wont" is supposed to be "will", then it's a matter of a lack of communication between the two involved and that needs to be rectified rather than punishment visited upon the sub.

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Post #: 3

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/17/2007 8:33:04 PM

MrSpectacular

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I have an expectation that my sub will just do what I want - if not then we would need to talk - I want it to be that the sub is looking to please me rather than spend my time disciplining. I do like to spank though - that is more of a pleasure for me though!

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Post #: 4

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/17/2007 8:42:10 PM

TemptingNviceSub

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Scenario 1) Sub is supposed to perform a specific task and fails to come through - How do you react? Reactions vary Dominant to Dominant..but...IMO..the D type would first need to know why the task was not accomplished (also known as communication)..then once again up to that D type to decide if warrants punishment and what form that punishment would take or not..maybe a case of let the punishment fit the crime, so to speak..but IMO..never forget that the submissives failure is also the Dominants failure...figure out how to avoid future failures......

Scenario 2) Sub does something you dont particularly like, she assumes you wont like, but communication isnt possible (legitimate reason) so she doesnt know EXACTLY what your wishes might be - How do you react? If the submissive already knows something you do not particularly like then why is communication needful?...The sub already knows...correct?...If assumed by sub that you would not like, then again..why the need for immediate communication?..To my way of thinking you should err on the side of a Dominant saying "no" to something until you can communicate..and then both should sit down and cover such contingencies for the future so that the need for permission is moot.....( communication, such a wonderful concept)......Tempting

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(in reply to LoveMyAussiePet)

Post #: 5

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/17/2007 8:47:01 PM

Qithoras

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Joined: 4/28/2006
From: Adelaide, Australia
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quote:

Scenario 1) Sub is supposed to perform a specific task and fails to come through - How do you react?

Depends on the situation, laziness, or unwilling to perform the task and unable to produce a reasoned argument why, I'll probably discipline her. Forgot, or other things pilled up - Probably not, unless it happens every day.

quote:

Scenario 2) Sub does something you dont particularly like, she assumes you wont like, but communication isnt possible (legitimate reason) so she doesnt know EXACTLY what your wishes might be - How do you react?

"she assumes you wont like" - Communication doesn't really factor into it, if she knows I won't like it, she should act on that basis since communication isn't there.
She might not know exactly what I want, but she can take a guess and run with it. I wouldn't fault a girl of mine for that.

_____________________________

Knowing others is intelligence.
Knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength.
Mastering yourself is true power.

-Tao Te Ching

(in reply to LoveMyAussiePet)

Post #: 6

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/17/2007 9:41:04 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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First, we don't have a punishment dynamic, it puts distance and fear between us which is not healthy to the survival of the relationship.

Two, anybody who wouldn't listen to an explanation wouldn't get a second chance with me.

Back when we were ldr, he sent me an email early one morning saying he wanted me in heels and a short skirt that day. As it happens I was escorting a school hiking trip and wore jeans tucked into high socks (to ward off ticks) and hiking boots. He had forgotten my schedule. He wasn't going to punish me for being a good parent.

Additionally things come up all the time that I handle as best as I can. I don't interrupt him all day long to get his opinion. If it turns out he didn't like the flavor ice cream I bought, and he's in the mood for some we go out and get a cone of a flavor he does like. He prefers to do all car repairs himself if he can, but if the car is close to the shop I use when an engine light comes on, I hand it in. I don't get punished for doing what needs to be done.

But if you have to punish all the time, then either the relationship has so broken down that she no longer respects you, or you weren't compatible from the beginning. Punishment should be the last resort not the first.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Qithoras)

Post #: 7

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 7:10:35 AM

chellekitty

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Joined: 3/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

On a personal level, someone who does not respond to rational conversation and shared expectations is simply not compatible with me. And while I cannot say that I have never disciplined or punished, it is exceptionally rare indeed.

Someone who requires or desires regular or frequent discipline or punishment needs someone other than me for a partner.

John

sorry for the mini hijack...but...rational conversation is so hot....and rare....and that is sad....

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One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 8

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 9:54:03 AM

deeddlit

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"Someone who requires or desires regular or frequent discipline or punishment needs someone other than me for a partner."

Exactly!!

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"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
Albert Einstein

(in reply to chellekitty)

Post #: 9

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 10:18:43 AM

gorgeous1

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Joined: 11/14/2007
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I don't get "punished" for not paying a bill on time. We have a few everyday things that we have decided will bring punishment- not taking my cell phone with me or not having it properly charged or turned on will bring a punishment, and so will not filling the fridge with Diet Pepsi. I accepted and acknowledged that those two things will bring punishment and I DO NOT intend to put myself in a situation where I will be punished because Hubby said, "And trust me, I learned some crazy shit in boot camp and you do not want to be punished, because you will not like it."

I much prefer "correction" over "punishment" and we like to keep our M/s relationship fun and enjoyable for both of us. Hubby likes it when I flirt with him in a bratty way, but does not tolerate flat out disobedience or my struggling, so I don't get punished.

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Post #: 10

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 10:28:50 AM

TMaster2

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Joined: 2/25/2006
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I discipline whether it's required or not -- discipline is fun! *EG*

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Post #: 11

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 11:33:12 AM

smilingjaguar

Posts: 271
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If I assume he won't like it and do it anyway, my ass is grass. However, if I genuinely try to do what I think will please Him in that situation, he will simply inform me of what his preference is for future reference because I made the effort to please Him even if I was wrong.

He's not big into punishment/discipline except for what he considers major offenses like taking steps contrary to our life plan (in this case lower than a B+ in any of my classes, not carrying my cell, and not taking my meds). He simply will remind me when I'm pushing it that life could be a lot less pleasant for me. I get a lot of extras and freedoms that just don't happen if he's not happy with my behavior.

That said, we probably communicate too much. Sometimes I wish he'd just beat me instead of talking it out...LOL.

(in reply to LoveMyAussiePet)

Post #: 12

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 12:18:02 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoveMyAussiePet

When/What Circumstances do you discipline your submissive?

Do you discipline them for ANY breach of your rules/expectations - regardless of explanation or circumstance?

Do you discipline if you think it justifiable?

Do you listen to your submissive if some form of breach is made, communicate back and forth and discuss? Or do you just whip out some form of punishment off the bat?

I mostly quite enjoy disciplining the girl; hence my preference for a sub who's playful and has a touch of mischief about her. But it does come down to how an individual defines "discipline"....

Probably my most common corrective measure (and which can be done publically) is "the stare". If she responds with her own uniquely submissive look of admonishment (and corrects her behaviour), it's all over in about a second or two - and no-one else even knows what just happened....

But there must be balance, too! Too much contrary behaviour tends to manifest as manipulation to gain a consequence - I wouldn't like that at all! While I usually enjoy an opportunity to discipline, if she actually makes me angry then we're in the highly undesirable dynamic of punishment, where she gets corner time away from me while I utilise that time to cool down. Maybe twice a year is my limit on punishment - anymore and we've got problems.... Zero is ideal.

The girl cannot breach the rules if she's unaware of them or doesn't understand them. It's MY job to explain them and she's only ever in trouble once I'm convinced she *knows* the rule she broke - or "bent".... So yes, open communication is a normal part of my M/s relationships.

quote:

Scenario 1) Sub is supposed to perform a specific task and fails to come through - How do you react?

Successfully performing a given task is not always the purpose of setting it. For eg, I like to have the girl remove her own panties *after* I've tied her hands behind. Whether or not she succeeds is not the point; I'm looking for effort - and ok, a bit of entertainment with that one, too! But "effort" is what's generally valid in any task - moreso than success or failure.

quote:

Scenario 2) Sub does something you dont particularly like, she assumes you wont like, but communication isnt possible (legitimate reason) so she doesnt know EXACTLY what your wishes might be - How do you react?

This is contradictory - either she assumed I wouldn't like it or she didn't know what my wishes were.... Which?

Focus.

(in reply to LoveMyAussiePet)

Post #: 13

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 1:49:12 PM

smilingjaguar

Posts: 271
Status: offline

quote:

This is contradictory - either she assumed I wouldn't like it or she didn't know what my wishes were.... Which?

I took it as there are no standing orders for the situation, I can't contact Him, but I knew there was a choice He wouldn't like and chose that one instead of any of the other options.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 14

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 3:14:54 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

I don't punish. I try to get to the bottom of the transgression, improper behavior or hurtful behavior. If correction is needed (such as an apology to someone), I correct.

If I want a punishment scene, I set that up. I don't need a reason to punish for that!

Master Fire

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(in reply to LoveMyAussiePet)

Post #: 15

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 3:41:14 PM

LoveMyAussiePet

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Joined: 12/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

quote:

This is contradictory - either she assumed I wouldn't like it or she didn't know what my wishes were.... Which?

I took it as there are no standing orders for the situation, I can't contact Him, but I knew there was a choice He wouldn't like and chose that one instead of any of the other options.

That was along the lines of what I was thinking.

I have found thus far I do not like to punish a great deal. But being new to the lifestyle I do not have much experience. Part of me says that I let things slide that I should give consequence for, to remind her of her place and that she can not continue doing whatever she wants.

I like the communication I have with my partner- we talk often and about many things. We are both new to this and the constant feedback and communication helps both of us learn. Most of the time we discuss any situations that occur and then go over what the "proper" or"expected" response should have been, or should be (if its something we have not covered before).

Most of my punishments thus far have been along the lines of writing a simple essay - sometimes in direct relevance to the offense, sometimes not.

Again, I do not wish to punish much...I feel as others have stated here that simple communication works wonders - and I liked the comments along the lines of "if it gets to a point that punishment is needed too often, then something has broken down."

Still - with the whole concept being new and us not being cemented in our roles and expectations I sometimes feel obliged to put her back in her place. By not doing so I am somehow failing in my role to ensure that dynamic.

I like that idea of "the stare" and feel that something like that is indeed useful and often all that is necessary. I have an excellent "stare" stemming from my line of work. However the Long Distance dynamic throws a monkey wrench in that as well - I cant just stare her down so that she goes "oh shit" and realizes she has erred.

I have really enjoyed the responses thus far. Great thoughts and ideas on this forum. Much appreciated.

(in reply to smilingjaguar)

Post #: 16

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 4:52:28 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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I find that the different ways individuals perceive punishment and discipline makes it one of the most difficult topics to discuss on these open Forums. It truly does test one's communication abilities so don't be too hard on yourself for being new to it all.....

For some, the act of mutually enjoying an erotic pain session, for eg, is their idea of "punishment" - probably because it's akin to what a vanilla might rationalise as corporal punishment. To me, it is NEVER punishment if one or ideally both of us is enjoying it. As I've stated many times, I love to discipline but I loathe the need to punish - the difference is defined by the mood her actions have brought out in me. I do NOT want her near me if she's literally made me angry. But if she's just being a cheeky brat etc (as in *playful*), I enjoy the opportunity to get in her face. Or maybe let her have a little more "rope" to get into some real "strife".... Even as a kid, I liked to play with my food. <wink>

To orchestrate a scene; to tie the girl up or otherwise play with her (pleasure or pain etc), none of these things comes under a heading of discipline or punishment to me - they are simply what I enjoy doing. And just as a cat purrs, the average sub seems to have a good time, too!

It's more about the rules and accepted standards of behaviour; *MY* rules & standards! So yes, discipline manifests in many ways - for eg, a familiar eye contact or a certain tone in my voice or the literally physical such as a handful of hair or nipple tweak etc. All these things (and a hundred others) are a corrective response which, frankly, I enjoy! But too much will eventually make me angry (uh-ohh); though it's a gradual process and it's not like any playful sub of average intelligence couldn't see trouble abrewing....

Focus.

(in reply to LoveMyAussiePet)

Post #: 17

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 6:00:26 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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Something for newbies to think about is that if you're trying to change a habit she's had for 20 years, you can't just tell her once and expect it magically to stick. It takes about a month of doing a new thing everyday before it becomes a habit, before she has internalized it. Instead of punishing, finding a way for her not to forget for that month is much better.

For example, when I'm with him, I'm supposed to wait for him to open car doors. The problem is that most of the time I'm by myself so I don't have this internalized fully. I don't practice waiting for him to open the door, I practice opening them myself. This makes it difficult to remember. Back when we were ldr, seeing each other every six weeks it made it nearly impossible to remember. Instead of punishing me once every six weeks he would remind me to wait for him.

Once we were living together, the internalizing came faster but since this still doesn't happen all the time, I still mess up and start to open the door sometimes. Reminding me once helps me remember for the next few days or weeks and that doesn't require telling me I'm a failure for messing up, it just helps move the learning process along.

Giving a learning curve is always a good idea.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

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RE: Consequences...When? - 12/18/2007 7:59:43 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_800482/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#800522
Punishment and how you choose to apply it

http://www.collarchat.com/m_611292/mpage_2/key_punishment/tm.htm#611778
Punishment is Deceptive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_597685/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#597689
Talking Vs Corporal Punishment

http://www.collarchat.com/m_572243/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#572280
Question for female subs on punishment

http://www.collarchat.com/m_18608/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#18608
Punishment and Discipline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_74162/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#74162
Training? Punishment?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_84734/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#84734
Punishment vs Play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_146151/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#146151
What is the difference between punishment and discipline?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_374557/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#374557
Testing, being broken, regular punishment, etc, etc....

http://www.collarchat.com/m_523257/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#523257
Discipline & Punishment

http://www.collarchat.com/m_495126/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#495126
On punishment

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Post #: 19

RE: Consequences...When? - 12/19/2007 6:01:24 AM

Driver1961

Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

He dips

LA gives you threads for better understanding. Communication is a key. Has the Dominant adequately communicated His expectations. Has the submissive adequately understood? Is the Dominant perfect themself and acting with fairness or bullying? These questions and others come to mind in any of the situations that can occur in D/s relationships.

Pavlov's conditioning/dog, CBT (that's Cognitive Behavioural Therapy!) and other correction/punishment theories next come to mind.

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 20

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